Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Tournament Events Live updates from major events, logistics, trip reports, and other live (not televised) major tournament discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-25-2018, 04:12 PM   #651
akashenk
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,846
Re: 2018 WSOP

Just a crazy thought based on various posts.... once the football stadium is built, wouldn't it represent sort of a perfect place to hold the WSOP, assuming the logistics could be worked out? I assume it will be a dome, or at least have a retractable roof.

Think about it... it will already have built-in concessions and tons of infrastructure for electrical/security, etc. I don't really know what the parking situation will be, but surely it will have more parking than most of the casinos in town.

And unless LV gets a soccer team, I don't necessarily see there being an obvious use for the stadium in June/early July.

Anyhow, I think it would be awesome. Someone needs to think outside the box and make it happen
akashenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2018, 01:39 AM   #652
pig4bill
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27,978
Re: 2018 WSOP

CET doesn't own the stadium and I doubt they want to rent it. Just the football field may not be enough space.

I'd rather just stay and play at the Rio.
pig4bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2018, 02:29 PM   #653
Bitter13
centurion
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 117
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
Yeah, like Black Aces said, Ballys recently renovated one tower and renovated the other just a few years ago. I don't see any major construction in the works any time soon.

As for the general idea of a "year-round" poker destination, I have thought about this concept in the past, particularly as poker rooms started to dwindle in Vegas. If planned and executed correctly, I think there could be a venue outside of the traditional casino footprint somewhere in vegas. The problem poker rooms have is, there are certain times of the year when they need a ton of room and other times when they don't at all. In the casino environment, if a poker room gives up some space during the slow times, they usually don't get it back. A separate venue would have to achieve two things...

1) Some secondary revenue stream which can supplement poker during the slow periods

2) A modular setup that can be quickly expanded/contracted to accommodate the poker boom seasons like in summer and during various series stops.

If someone can come up with an idea that meets these criteria, and has the resources to implement is, I think it could be a profitable enterprise.
That is good to hear that they re-did the rooms at Bally's I'll definitely be looking into staying there.

And to clear up my view about the "year round poker destination" I should be clear to state that I don't think a poker-only destination is sustainable. My idea about Bally's is that, if you are familiar with the casino, or anyone that has arrived by monorail, you'll note that the back of the bally's casino is DEAD SPACE right now. The downstairs corridor could be re-vitalized with a state of the art sports book and healthy food options, a health club, all the things that would appeal to our demographic. Bally's actually lists their convention space to be larger than The Rio's (I have never explored the area but I'm skeptical) So they wouldn't have to build-out if they didn't want to, but there is a ton of empty adjacent lots to expand to. Convention Space / Poker Room Space isn't a complicated build-out.

My main point of it was that CET really could be making better use of the WSOP brand.
Bitter13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2018, 08:22 PM   #654
DogFace
old hand
 
DogFace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,409
Re: 2018 WSOP

Fellas, what can be done about the menace that is resort fees? These are such a blatant scam that they're beginning to infuriate me. I remember just maybe 3-4 years ago staying at Circus Circus and paying basically nothing for my room, but now the price has probably doubled because of the resort fee, which adds no value to my experience.

Is Air BNB viable in Vegas or just too dodgy when you may be carrying a lot of cash? Are there any cheap options that don't charge a resort fee? I see that a few places like the Four Queens still don't force it on you.

I may be looking to play the Circuit events at PH and Bally's in the next year, and I definitely plan to attend the WSOP again next summer. Looking to do so with minimal overhead and "sleep rake".
DogFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2018, 10:31 PM   #655
carlo
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,690
Re: 2018 WSOP

Evaluating the respective costs may help :

https://www.lasvegasjaunt.com/las-ve...es-2018-guide/
carlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 11:47 AM   #656
michelle227
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,507
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFace View Post
Are there any cheap options that don't charge a resort fee? I see that a few places like the Four Queens still don't force it on you.

I may be looking to play the Circuit events at PH and Bally's in the next year, and I definitely plan to attend the WSOP again next summer. Looking to do so with minimal overhead and "sleep rake".
If you have status with Mlife or Total Rewards, I believe there are tiers that waive the resort fees. In the absence of such status, then the only casino property I know of that has no resort fee is Four Queens. Golden Nugget sends occasional email offers for rooms without resort fee being charged. Of course, you THEN have to offset the costs of getting back and forth to center Strip and the money value of your time in those travels.

Staying downtown will give you the cash games at the Nugget which can be quite nice at times. Beyond that, cash games will be limited.

I absolutely hear you about the fees...when I was out there last week, my room at Aria was roughly $70 a night. However, with taxes, resort fees added almost $45 a night to the total.

For longer stays, I know you can do a room for a month at Vdara and they waive the resort fees. However, you still have a hefty amount on the tab when viewed on a per-night basis.

If you have a vehicle, then there may be some non-casino properties that lend themselves to lower per-night and no resort fee, but I have never really researched them...discussions about those sorts of places can be found in LVL.
michelle227 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 01:14 PM   #657
akashenk
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,846
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFace View Post
Fellas, what can be done about the menace that is resort fees? These are such a blatant scam that they're beginning to infuriate me. I remember just maybe 3-4 years ago staying at Circus Circus and paying basically nothing for my room, but now the price has probably doubled because of the resort fee, which adds no value to my experience.
If you are aware of the fee, how is it a "scam"?
akashenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 02:23 PM   #658
DogFace
old hand
 
DogFace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,409
Re: 2018 WSOP

It's just a way for the casinos to drive up prices and revenue while maintaining the illusion of low rates. If you go on Booking.com and look at hotel options in Vegas, the actual price at check out ends up being far higher than the listed price due to the resort fees, which are actually higher than the nightly room cost at some casinos. Casino management argues that resort fees are good for the customer because they prevent you from having to pay a la carte for various services, but realistically it's like cable companies forcing you to buy a package of 500 channels when all you really want is ESPN and HBO. It's a totally anti-customer policy designed to inflate costs and revenues while squeezing out third parties like Booking and Expedia, who get nothing from the resort fee (their cut of the % for rooms they sell comes only out of the nightly room price).
DogFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 03:07 PM   #659
michelle227
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,507
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFace View Post
If you go on Booking.com and look at hotel options in Vegas, the actual price at check out ends up being far higher than the listed price due to the resort fees, which are actually higher than the nightly room cost at some casinos.
Your argument loses validity given that the fee is disclosed on the website page though. I just went and looked and the very first listing was at Mandalay Bay. Listing includes language that "Excluded: 13.38 % TAX, US$ 41.95 resort fee per night" which makes clear that an additional fee is going to be charged.

It may not be a fee that most like, but it IS disclosed and thus is not 'a scam.'

Quote:
It's a totally anti-customer policy designed to inflate costs and revenues while squeezing out third parties like Booking and Expedia, who get nothing from the resort fee (their cut of the % for rooms they sell comes only out of the nightly room price).
I disagree that it is 'anti-customer' and really don't care if the third-party entities don't get a cut...I never use them anyhow and generally do better going through the property itself. I have ALSO seen instances where upgrades were NOT available when the booking was through the third-party site (I have used AXP Travel in the past since Platinum cardholders get a 5x point boost when booked through the site, which is how I learned about some properties not upgrading when a third-party is used to book the stay).
michelle227 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 09:15 PM   #660
Dr. Meh
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,406
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
Just a crazy thought based on various posts.... once the football stadium is built, wouldn't it represent sort of a perfect place to hold the WSOP, assuming the logistics could be worked out? I assume it will be a dome, or at least have a retractable roof.

Think about it... it will already have built-in concessions and tons of infrastructure for electrical/security, etc. I don't really know what the parking situation will be, but surely it will have more parking than most of the casinos in town.

And unless LV gets a soccer team, I don't necessarily see there being an obvious use for the stadium in June/early July.

Anyhow, I think it would be awesome. Someone needs to think outside the box and make it happen
Intriguing but Iím guessing the wear and tear on the turf/grass will be excessive if they were to allow it. Unless a cheap temporary floor can be laid down over it. Itíd also make surveillance, security, and other necessities a bit problematic.

But the biggest hurdle would probably getting the NGC onboard with it.
Dr. Meh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2018, 09:17 PM   #661
Dr. Meh
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,406
Re: 2018 WSOP

You guys are complete semantic nits. Maybe not “scam” but ripoff. Geez, you all knew what he was saying and nobody likes these fees so how about cutting a little slack?
Dr. Meh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 11:08 AM   #662
akashenk
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,846
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
Intriguing but Iím guessing the wear and tear on the turf/grass will be excessive if they were to allow it. Unless a cheap temporary floor can be laid down over it. Itíd also make surveillance, security, and other necessities a bit problematic.

But the biggest hurdle would probably getting the NGC onboard with it.
I don't think CET would ever do something like that since they have a perfectly good home, but if they ever lost that home or if the WSOP were ever sold, it would definitely be intriguing. There would obviously be a number of logistical hurdles to get over, but that is the case in most venues.
akashenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 11:54 AM   #663
akashenk
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,846
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFace View Post
It's just a way for the casinos to drive up prices and revenue while maintaining the illusion of low rates. If you go on Booking.com and look at hotel options in Vegas, the actual price at check out ends up being far higher than the listed price due to the resort fees, which are actually higher than the nightly room cost at some casinos. Casino management argues that resort fees are good for the customer because they prevent you from having to pay a la carte for various services, but realistically it's like cable companies forcing you to buy a package of 500 channels when all you really want is ESPN and HBO. It's a totally anti-customer policy designed to inflate costs and revenues while squeezing out third parties like Booking and Expedia, who get nothing from the resort fee (their cut of the % for rooms they sell comes only out of the nightly room price).
To my knowledge, the hotel is not required to make sure the booking agencies make more money than they are entitled to. Why do you feel differently?

And I agree that these fees are a mechanism for the hotels to increase their bottom line and some consumers will be confused by them. But as far as I know, the hotels are complying with all regulations regarding the disclosure of the fees. If you don't think that's good enough, you should take it up with the government agencies that regulate this sort of stuff. They may be more open to hearing your complaints.

And lastly, your original post on this topic seems to indicate that you used to pay "basically nothing" for a room, and now you have to pay more. While I understand how you might prefer that not to be the case, what I don't get is why you feel like you're entitled to pay basically nothing for a service somebody is selling. Maybe the folks at Circus Circus though you were scamming them all that time you were paying basically nothing, and now they're just getting back at you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
You guys are complete semantic nits. Maybe not ďscamĒ but ripoff. Geez, you all knew what he was saying and nobody likes these fees so how about cutting a little slack?
Resort fees are neither a scam nor a ripoff. And maybe a little semantic nitty-ness would do the world some good.
akashenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 01:07 PM   #664
carlo
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,690
Re: 2018 WSOP

This give a good presentation of the legalise involved including perspectives from the European Union and Australia. We can only hope, and apparently its illegal to charge for internet access(?).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resort_fee
carlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 02:46 PM   #665
DogFace
old hand
 
DogFace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,409
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
And lastly, your original post on this topic seems to indicate that you used to pay "basically nothing" for a room, and now you have to pay more. While I understand how you might prefer that not to be the case, what I don't get is why you feel like you're entitled to pay basically nothing for a service somebody is selling. Maybe the folks at Circus Circus though you were scamming them all that time you were paying basically nothing, and now they're just getting back at you.
Yea, of course the seller will try to get the best price possible and the buyer will do the same. That's to be expected. That doesn't mean resort fees aren't bad for the average customer.

The argument made by the MGM execs is that it's pro-consumer because it means you no longer have to pay a la carte for services...but isn't paying a la carte for services ideal since it means you're only paying for what you actually need/use and not paying extra for anything else? Why should I be forced to pay for stuff like the pool, parking, and Internet when I'm never going to use it?

If I go down to the hardware store because I want to buy a wrench, I wouldn't be very happy if they forced me to also buy a hammer, screwdriver, and tape measure as well in a pre-packaged tool kit, even if the guy at the register insisted that this is good for me because now I don't have to pay for my tools a la carte.

If you have some sort of weird BDSM relationship with businesses where you relish them devising clever ways to extract more of your money then I guess you must love paying more for the same product, but that's not me. Resort fees aren't good for the average customer. They're good for shareholders and gambling executives, but most people who visit or live in Vegas don't belong to either group.
DogFace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 08:56 PM   #666
akashenk
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,846
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFace View Post
Yea, of course the seller will try to get the best price possible and the buyer will do the same. That's to be expected. That doesn't mean resort fees aren't bad for the average customer.

The argument made by the MGM execs is that it's pro-consumer because it means you no longer have to pay a la carte for services...but isn't paying a la carte for services ideal since it means you're only paying for what you actually need/use and not paying extra for anything else? Why should I be forced to pay for stuff like the pool, parking, and Internet when I'm never going to use it?

If I go down to the hardware store because I want to buy a wrench, I wouldn't be very happy if they forced me to also buy a hammer, screwdriver, and tape measure as well in a pre-packaged tool kit, even if the guy at the register insisted that this is good for me because now I don't have to pay for my tools a la carte.

If you have some sort of weird BDSM relationship with businesses where you relish them devising clever ways to extract more of your money then I guess you must love paying more for the same product, but that's not me. Resort fees aren't good for the average customer. They're good for shareholders and gambling executives, but most people who visit or live in Vegas don't belong to either group.
Youíre argument is pretty weak. There are lots of things in your life which you donít pay for ďa-la-carteĒ which donít cause you to lose any sleep... like the roads you drive on, or the fire station in your town, or the web forums you visit to make ridiculous posts on. Youíve likely got a ton of bandwidth available to you through your ISP which you arenít using, and yet youíre paying for it. When you belly up to the buffet at the MGM, you donít get to decide which food items youíre willing to pay for and which you arenít. I can go on and on.

The point is, it now costs more to stay at hotels in Vegas than it used to. And youíre also getting more services offered to you in exchange for the increased cost. Itís up to you to decide whether the increased services are worth the increased cost. No one is forcing you to do anything. The decision is entirely yours. You may not like the fact that the cost has changed and your personal view of the value of the product has not. But that is not emblematic of anything underhanded on the part of the hotels.
akashenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2018, 11:22 PM   #667
pig4bill
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27,978
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
Youíre argument is pretty weak. There are lots of things in your life which you donít pay for ďa-la-carteĒ which donít cause you to lose any sleep... like the roads you drive on, or the fire station in your town, or the web forums you visit to make ridiculous posts on. Youíve likely got a ton of bandwidth available to you through your ISP which you arenít using, and yet youíre paying for it. When you belly up to the buffet at the MGM, you donít get to decide which food items youíre willing to pay for and which you arenít. I can go on and on.
Those are ridiculous comparisons. More correctly, the hotel customer is being forced to subscribe to an ISP they never use at all, and are being charged to eat at a buffet they never visit at all. Next they will be charged for parking even though they arrived in a taxi. Or charged for a tuxedo they never rent. Why not gambling losses in a game they never played?
pig4bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 08:14 AM   #668
RealMcCoy
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 216
Re: 2018 WSOP

While I completely understand resort fees from a business perspective - you can advertise low room rates but add on fee's that might actually increase the cost by 50 % - 100% during the week. How from a consumer point of view it can be a positive for the MAJORITY of guests is an incredible stretch of logic.

While there are plenty of examples in taxation that are equivalent --- Real Estate tax funding of education when you have no children comes to mind -- a better model FOR THE CONSUMER is say a gasoline tax for roads -- You pay a fuel tax AND you utilize the highways.

There is no reasonable argument from a CONSUMER / GUEST perspective that does NOT use "the pool" or the "fitness center" that justifies the fee.

Again while I understand and appreciate resort fee's from the BUSINESS perspective don't attempt to justify it from a guest perspective unless you simply believe that ALL guests should subsidize what some guests want to do.
RealMcCoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 09:59 PM   #669
akashenk
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,846
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
Those are ridiculous comparisons. More correctly, the hotel customer is being forced to subscribe to an ISP they never use at all, and are being charged to eat at a buffet they never visit at all. Next they will be charged for parking even though they arrived in a taxi. Or charged for a tuxedo they never rent. Why not gambling losses in a game they never played?
You are not being forced to subscribe. You donít have to use the additional services.
akashenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2018, 10:04 PM   #670
akashenk
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,846
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by RealMcCoy View Post
While I completely understand resort fees from a business perspective - you can advertise low room rates but add on fee's that might actually increase the cost by 50 % - 100% during the week. How from a consumer point of view it can be a positive for the MAJORITY of guests is an incredible stretch of logic.

While there are plenty of examples in taxation that are equivalent --- Real Estate tax funding of education when you have no children comes to mind -- a better model FOR THE CONSUMER is say a gasoline tax for roads -- You pay a fuel tax AND you utilize the highways.

There is no reasonable argument from a CONSUMER / GUEST perspective that does NOT use "the pool" or the "fitness center" that justifies the fee.

Again while I understand and appreciate resort fee's from the BUSINESS perspective don't attempt to justify it from a guest perspective unless you simply believe that ALL guests should subsidize what some guests want to do.
No one said itís a positive for the majority of consumers. Itís an increased cost. How would that be seen as a positive for the majority of consumers? My only point is it isnít a scam. Itís just the way hotels make more money now. If the resort fees didnít exist, the cost would still go up, perhaps even more so.
akashenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2018, 11:24 AM   #671
plog
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 195
Re: 2018 WSOP

Resort fees are an angle shoot. Not expressly illegal\scam\etc, but not right.
plog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2018, 05:52 PM   #672
akashenk
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,846
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by plog View Post
Resort fees are an angle shoot. Not expressly illegal\scam\etc, but not right.
An angle shoot against third-party booking services and tax collectors... sure. An angle shoot against consumers... no. An argument can be made that consumers are paying less under this framework than if they had just increased the nightly rates.

As to the former, why should the hotels care about the booking services? And everybody angle shoots to reduce their tax burden. So, I don't see what isn't "right" about it.
akashenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2018, 07:28 PM   #673
loonybird
grinder
 
loonybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 490
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
An angle shoot against third-party booking services and tax collectors... sure. An angle shoot against consumers... no. An argument can be made that consumers are paying less under this framework than if they had just increased the nightly rates.

As to the former, why should the hotels care about the booking services? And everybody angle shoots to reduce their tax burden. So, I don't see what isn't "right" about it.
What isn't right is that it allows the hotels to advertise rates that aren't what you actually pay. How can a consumer defend this practice?
loonybird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2018, 12:31 PM   #674
Black Aces 518
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Black Aces 518's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: same dances in the same ole shoes
Posts: 8,249
Re: 2018 WSOP

Welcome to life.

Book a flight, select the price, then you get taxes, and 9/11 segment fee, and depending on airline, seat fee, bag fee etc.

The hotel makes it clear before booking exactly what you will pay. The histrionics in this thread act like the hotel says "OK, $40 a night it is, see ya Saturday" then when you check out they are like "BAM another $40 sucker!".
Black Aces 518 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2018, 01:03 PM   #675
loonybird
grinder
 
loonybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 490
Re: 2018 WSOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
Welcome to life.

Book a flight, select the price, then you get taxes, and 9/11 segment fee, and depending on airline, seat fee, bag fee etc.

The hotel makes it clear before booking exactly what you will pay. The histrionics in this thread act like the hotel says "OK, $40 a night it is, see ya Saturday" then when you check out they are like "BAM another $40 sucker!".
When I book a flight on an airline's site, the fare already includes taxes and fees. Find a better example.
loonybird is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online