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Old 05-26-2018, 10:17 PM   #76
akashenk
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
I went to cardplayer site, no link from any of the tournaments to a fee structure. Have the printed off handout thats 6 pages long no rake mentioned until last line of last page with a link. Yes, I missed that.

The places you mentioned were helpful, after the fact, thanks.

I've had trouble finding their rake for about 8 years now. I love their model,

HIDE THE RAKE
YOU CANT FIND ME MFKR
I WONDER IF THIS IS A 25 +(475) OH WELL HERE U GO GL AT FT HAHA
If precise rake is an important consideration for you, I would suggest you look at structure sheets, as opposed to print ads. Unlike advertisements which aim to entice, structure sheets aim to infiorm.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:15 PM   #77
ItsJustLove
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

Dont try and sell me that they hve no obligation to their customers to post rake.

they dont aim to inform. they aim to hide the rake, because people wouldnt want to pay what they charge.

it doesntmake it legit just because some other scammer regulator decided its above water to not post rake
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:09 AM   #78
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

$81,000 to the winner of the $600 superstack. That's a pretty good ROI
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:48 AM   #79
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

Some pictures of the setup in Convention Hall G are up on Twitter. Nice
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:40 AM   #80
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
Dont try and sell me that they hve no obligation to their customers to post rake.

they dont aim to inform. they aim to hide the rake, because people wouldnt want to pay what they charge.

it doesntmake it legit just because some other scammer regulator decided its above water to not post rake
No one said they have no obligation to post rake. It's clear as day on the structure sheets.

Don't be a troll, learn to read.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:16 AM   #81
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by TR3V View Post
No one said they have no obligation to post rake. It's clear as day on the structure sheets.



Don't be a troll, learn to read.

JFC this. WSOP tourneys are listed as just the total, where is your outrage in the WSOP thread?

Clowns last time this came pointed to some east coast tourneys (I think Borgata but not positive) as virtuous bc they were listed in the ads as $1400+100 or whatever. Then in the fine print it says an additional 3% is held out. That's way WORSE bc it is reasonable to assume "1400+100" means 100 comes out of the prize pool.

Venetians structure sheets list the exact dollar amount that comes out and where it goes. But by all means have a hissy at Venetian bc of what you found at cardplayer.com.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:14 PM   #82
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
Dont try and sell me that they hve no obligation to their customers to post rake.

they dont aim to inform. they aim to hide the rake, because people wouldnt want to pay what they charge.

it doesntmake it legit just because some other scammer regulator decided its above water to not post rake
They do post rake. You are being disingenuous. If you don't like the way casinos advertise their tourneys in print media, you should take it up with the FTC. I'm sure they will be open to hearing your complaint.

And while you're at it, please ask them to find out why I have never seen on the premises any of those well-endowed women who are frequently depicted in tournament print ads. Surely the casino is making some sort of tacit promise by including these ladies prominently in their ads.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:18 PM   #83
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by Can U Get This Out View Post
Some pictures of the setup in Convention Hall G are up on Twitter. Nice
Which twitter handle?
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:45 PM   #84
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
Which twitter handle?


Retweet by Kevmath.

I “liked it” under my Twitter @FranknVest if you’d like to find it easier since he’s a twitter machine.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:56 PM   #85
ProbablyDrawinDead
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

First time playing this summer. Planning on playing the $1100 3.5M. Are there screens in there to see the NBA finals games? lol
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:01 PM   #86
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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First time playing this summer. Planning on playing the $1100 3.5M. Are there screens in there to see the NBA finals games? lol
There are 60+ TV’s plus three huge projection screen TV’s. One even has sound

TJL
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:44 AM   #87
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
They do post rake. You are being disingenuous. If you don't like the way casinos advertise their tourneys in print media, you should take it up with the FTC. I'm sure they will be open to hearing your complaint.

And while you're at it, please ask them to find out why I have never seen on the premises any of those well-endowed women who are frequently depicted in tournament print ads. Surely the casino is making some sort of tacit promise by including these ladies prominently in their ads.
Thy hand out 6 pages of Tournaments with a link to a website on the last page to find the juice. Whos being disengenous? Advertising is completely fair game, you get the women when you win ldo.

I might as well write my congressman every time I get cut off in traffic too, ya? All I'm saying is with transparency comes trust and poker as a whole is marred with these issues so a forward thinking company would be for bringing transparency to engender trust.

Yes I have issues with unforgiving predatory behavior. I suppose someone is going to argue that they aren't hiding it again. Yawn.
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:49 AM   #88
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
JFC this. WSOP tourneys are listed as just the total, where is your outrage in the WSOP thread?

Clowns last time this came pointed to some east coast tourneys (I think Borgata but not positive) as virtuous bc they were listed in the ads as $1400+100 or whatever. Then in the fine print it says an additional 3% is held out. That's way WORSE bc it is reasonable to assume "1400+100" means 100 comes out of the prize pool.

Venetians structure sheets list the exact dollar amount that comes out and where it goes. But by all means have a hissy at Venetian bc of what you found at cardplayer.com.
Why are you guys so triggered, it isn't about who's best or worst. It's about who's making an effort. Apparently most places are making an effort to be less forthcoming with rake. Assuming we can agree this is happening, Is it more or less helpful for growing poker?
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Old 05-28-2018, 05:00 AM   #89
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by TR3V View Post
No one said they have no obligation to post rake. It's clear as day on the structure sheets.

Don't be a troll, learn to read.
If they could they wouldn't post rake, their obligation isn't to post but to have it available apparently. I suppose you could be right, the structure sheet may have it, I only used their handout with the schedule on the desk. I want to live in a world where companies put their fees up front because they know they bring a valuable product that speaks for itself. Not one where profit dictates everything. I miss the days where every tourney was xxx + xx which is so much better for competition with clearly stated fees and it's obvious who is pushing the rake up or down and who deserves credit for that.

I think Venetian made some progress in other areas. The new spot was a move in the right direction that cannot be understated the staff have been impressive so far in my time playing 4 days of Mtt's there this month.
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:08 AM   #90
akashenk
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
I only used their handout with the schedule on the desk..
Your first comment in this thread on this topic was "Why is the rake never poster anywhere? this **** is ool and downright criminal ".

You were told the rakes are posted clearly in at least two common-sense locations which are easily accessed online. You were given links.

Then you ignored the advice you were given and said you went to the cardplayer.com site to look at the schedule and the rake wasn't posted there.

And now you are saying you only used some sort of "handout" with the schedule on the desk. So, it seems you keep looking elsewhere. In any case, I have no idea which handout you're referring to, but I'd be surprised if the exact same structure sheets which are available online are not also available in paper form on location. And the structure sheets discuss all the fees withdrawn from the prizepool. So, considering the information you have been given, its difficult to take you seriously when you say things like "I've had trouble finding their rake for about 8 years now.". You sound like you are either extremely lazy, or just really disingenuous.

Anyhow, as big a stink as you have raised when it comes to the universal disclosure of fees, it's obviously not prevented you from consuming the Venetian's products over a long period of time, so I'm not really sure what the point of your anger is.

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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
I want to live in a world where companies put their fees up front because they know they bring a valuable product that speaks for itself.
That world you want to live in is called the land of make-believe. I, for one, want to live in a world where people are actually capable of using their brains to consider things critically... a world where minor inconveniences do not bring about temper-tantrums... a world where the tiniest requirement of effort is not met with disdain. I'm afraid the world I want to live in quickly becoming imaginary as well.

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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
... Not one where profit dictates everything.
Profit doesn't dictate everything... there's just a fixed amount of resources and an ever-growing number of people competing for those resources. But If you'd like to spell out exactly how your idea of a socialist utopia would work, I'm all ears.


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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
...I miss the days where every tourney was xxx + xx which is so much better for competition with clearly stated fees and it's obvious who is pushing the rake up or down and who deserves credit for that.
What you miss is a figment of your imagination. There has never been a time when every tourney was advertised as xxx+xx. And even in cases when there were some percentage of tourneys listed as xxx+xx, it was often highly misleading, since their were things like "dealer fees" (which rarely, if ever actually went to the dealers, mind you), etc which were made much less visible. I do not consume the product of every single casino. But of the ones I do, I would say the Venetian is as, or more, up front about their fees than any of the others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
I think Venetian made some progress in other areas. The new spot was a move in the right direction that cannot be understated the staff have been impressive so far in my time playing 4 days of Mtt's there this month.
The Venetian has always done a great job of running their tournaments. One of the fears with such a big expansion, especially since the Venetian is one of the nicest cardrooms in Vegas, is that there maybe some degradation in quality (whether its the environment, dealers, service, whatever). A little degradation is understandable and ought to be expected, but of course, people will find a way to complain vehemently about anything. I'm glad to hear the new setup has been well-received so far and am really looking forward to checking it out for myself later this week.
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Old 05-28-2018, 06:57 PM   #91
ItsJustLove
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
Your first comment in this thread on this topic was "Why is the rake never poster anywhere? this **** is ool and downright criminal ".

You were told the rakes are posted clearly in at least two common-sense locations which are easily accessed online. You were given links.

Then you ignored the advice you were given and said you went to the cardplayer.com site to look at the schedule and the rake wasn't posted there.

And now you are saying you only used some sort of "handout" with the schedule on the desk. So, it seems you keep looking elsewhere. In any case, I have no idea which handout you're referring to, but I'd be surprised if the exact same structure sheets which are available online are not also available in paper form on location. And the structure sheets discuss all the fees withdrawn from the prizepool. So, considering the information you have been given, its difficult to take you seriously when you say things like "I've had trouble finding their rake for about 8 years now.". You sound like you are either extremely lazy, or just really disingenuous.

Anyhow, as big a stink as you have raised when it comes to the universal disclosure of fees, it's obviously not prevented you from consuming the Venetian's products over a long period of time, so I'm not really sure what the point of your anger is.



That world you want to live in is called the land of make-believe. I, for one, want to live in a world where people are actually capable of using their brains to consider things critically... a world where minor inconveniences do not bring about temper-tantrums... a world where the tiniest requirement of effort is not met with disdain. I'm afraid the world I want to live in quickly becoming imaginary as well.



Profit doesn't dictate everything... there's just a fixed amount of resources and an ever-growing number of people competing for those resources. But If you'd like to spell out exactly how your idea of a socialist utopia would work, I'm all ears.




What you miss is a figment of your imagination. There has never been a time when every tourney was advertised as xxx+xx. And even in cases when there were some percentage of tourneys listed as xxx+xx, it was often highly misleading, since their were things like "dealer fees" (which rarely, if ever actually went to the dealers, mind you), etc which were made much less visible. I do not consume the product of every single casino. But of the ones I do, I would say the Venetian is as, or more, up front about their fees than any of the others.



The Venetian has always done a great job of running their tournaments. One of the fears with such a big expansion, especially since the Venetian is one of the nicest cardrooms in Vegas, is that there maybe some degradation in quality (whether its the environment, dealers, service, whatever). A little degradation is understandable and ought to be expected, but of course, people will find a way to complain vehemently about anything. I'm glad to hear the new setup has been well-received so far and am really looking forward to checking it out for myself later this week.
I havent played at venetian but maybe 3 mtt's in the last 6 years.

You seem to miss my point, is it more or less valuable to have the rake posted up front?

Its not about me, its about the community. This isnt a minor inconvenience, and this isnt a tantrum. You telling me my hope of a better future is a fairy tale makes me feel sad, Im trying to be part of the solution by calling out what I see as a questionable practice.

Probably something like a resource based economy. Yes you are right we are competing for finite resources yet we make and consume products that are created with planned obsolescence so that a few can profit off the many. This isnt sustainable and its so unsustainable its almost too late.
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:46 PM   #92
BDHarrison
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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You seem to miss my point, is it more or less valuable to have the rake posted up front?
It probably makes no difference.
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:24 PM   #93
akashenk
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
I havent played at venetian but maybe 3 mtt's in the last 6 years.
And yet you post in the Venetian board and complain about their practices. Seems like your attention would be better spent elsewhere, with cardrooms you play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
You seem to miss my point, is it more or less valuable to have the rake posted up front?
They do post their fees upfront. In their online schedule and structure sheets.

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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
Its not about me, its about the community.
The community is not a monolith, in regards to this subject or any other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
This isnt a minor inconvenience, and this isnt a tantrum.
Really? Having to click on a link or look at a piece of paper is not a minor inconvenience? Things are worse than I thought.

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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
You telling me my hope of a better future is a fairy tale makes me feel sad, Im trying to be part of the solution by calling out what I see as a questionable practice.
You are free to call out whatever you like. You are not the first, nor the last I suspect. I would simply suggest you should aim a little higher than standard advertising practices when it comes to your dream of a better future.

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Originally Posted by ItsJustLove View Post
Probably something like a resource based economy. Yes you are right we are competing for finite resources yet we make and consume products that are created with planned obsolescence so that a few can profit off the many. This isnt sustainable and its so unsustainable its almost too late.
Somewhere Karl Marx is smiling. Anyhow, I find it curious that a poker player would hold these sorts of views. But like I said, we are not a monolith. However you admit to playing MTTs where only some 10-15% of players will profit in any given tournament, to the direct detriment of the vast majority. And I suspect an even more meager percentage will actually be profitable long-term. Poker, it seems, is exactly the sort of arena where the few profit from the many. And whether or not you, or I, or anyone else is among that minority is not particularly relevant, since we all would like to be... so much so that some of us fret over needing to spend minutes investigating rake. How do you reconcile this with the ideal you describe?
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:53 AM   #94
ItsJustLove
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I dont mind it for myself, its more of a genuine concern that this has a higher likelihood to increase rake and suppress competition.

I do try and aim higher. I get triggered over perceived nonstop exploits and forget perspective from time to time. I didnt stroll in here to be an ingrate, poker has been great to me. For that reason I will continue to try and hold casinos, players and everyone especially myself to a high standard so that the game that has brought me much joy can be a positive experience for all and not a zero sum game.

Last edited by ItsJustLove; 05-29-2018 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:49 PM   #95
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

Quote:
Originally Posted by Can U Get This Out View Post
Some pictures of the setup in Convention Hall G are up on Twitter. Nice
It's a pretty nice setup. Kind of a mini-version of the WSOP setup, in terms of the physical layout. Long walk from the actual poker room where cash games are going. New chairs, not wheeled, but no carpeting so easy to slide around on. Drop off area close by and free wi-fi.

Very roomy, tables aren't crowded together, lots of places to sit and chill. Large number of tv screens showing tournament info and sports. Cashier with about 6 windows. Food area. Final table area with seating for audience.

Well done Venetian!
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:49 PM   #96
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

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Originally Posted by Can U Get This Out View Post
Some pictures of the setup in Convention Hall G are up on Twitter. Nice
I did not take any pictures, but can confirm that it is a nice set-up. Plenty of monitors with tournament clocks in addition to the televisions for sports events. Food court had a variety of options...the chicken place got good reviews but the chicken is ONLY available (or was this weekend) as part of a full meal that included beans, corn bread and something else in addition to the half-chicken.

Seats are basic stacking chairs, but it was new felt and new chips in play. Shuffle machines on each table...don't remember if that was the case with the tables outside the sports book last year or not.

Plenty of drink servers wandering through the hall, and it was not uncommon to have them back at the table even before you were done with the previous drink they had brought you.

Bathrooms in a couple of the corners, so you don't have to go all over the back forty trying to find some place without a line.

And, while it could change later in the summer, the air conditioning temps were about right...I had a jacket with me but never had to pull it out and put it on.

When I tweeted on Sunday, the Venetian had replied that they had things to work on for next year, but aside from perhaps better chairs, I have to opine that they did a pretty good job getting things running this year.
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Old 05-29-2018, 07:01 PM   #97
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

Someone said on Twitter no free booze in the tourney area?
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Old 05-30-2018, 02:07 PM   #98
DaArsonist
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

What is the deal with the comp alcohol at the venetian tournament area, is there or not? I need some brews with my poker.
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Old 05-30-2018, 02:11 PM   #99
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

Sounds like now there is beer and wine.
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Old 05-30-2018, 02:13 PM   #100
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Re: 2018 Venetian DSE III expanded

Thanks Black Aces, hopefully so.
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