I'm guessing this is why the guys in the other story were willing to wait for the Austrian to go all the way back to the hotel. He likely had favorable tax treatment to where he was willing to sign for first place.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that the Daily Deep Stacks greater than 900 people should be 2 day tourneys.

Here is my thinking. Play from 3pm till final 2-3 tables which should be around 2am ish. Then the next day they can continue at noon/1pm. You could do this for each Daily Deep stack, play till down to 2-3 tables then continue at a set time the next day...

Basically, just have it be a continuous 2-day cycle of playing till final 2-3 tables and continuing those tables next day at a set time

If you are playing for $50k+ first place you aren't going to mind missing the next day's Daily Deep Stacks or even a WSOP event. Its not like there are a shortage of WSOP events and you can just plan accordingly. Plus, there are many events that start at 5pm....

This is a good point.

I guess the question I have is was this there intent all along-- to have a one day tourney no matter what? I mean, did they anticipate the tourney field growing from 300 people to 1700 people over the course of the summer and then likewise plan to just not adjust to the huge numbers???

It seems to me that you almost have to adjust to the ridiculously large field sizes by turning it into a two day tourney

I disagree. The majority of $1.5k and $1k NLHE events start at noon and these are the events that the average Daily Deepstack player would be targeting. The 5pm starts are normally other games / higher buy-ins. If I knew there was a risk that I'd miss my bracelet event start, I'd just play somewhere else.

I know it's a fast structure after 6-8 levels. That's ok with me. And I'm willing to absorb the late nite if I go deep. But I don't want to run the risk of missing my planned bracelet event starts because of a DDS as these are the first things that get put into my timetable each year.

If anything, I'd like to see something starting earlier, like a 9 or 10am start. Like another $135 DDS or an extra mega. I actually have another idea covering this time slot which I might pitch to the WSOP directly.

Why do tournaments start so late in Vegas?

The standard in most places around the country is for tournaments to start in the mornings.

Why couldn't the Daily Deep Stacks just start at 9 or 10am??? Seems like that would solve this problem...

not to say I don't like afternoon tourneys are even tourneys that start at 7pm like the Venetian...

But If your tourneys are going to have over 1000 people then maybe perhaps having it start in the mornings wouldn't be a bad idea...

But the $1.5K don't run every single day. Besides, there are PLENTY of $1.5k and $1k tourneys that I just don't see it being a problem. If you make the final table of a $50k+ first place guarantee, then you aren't going to mind missing the next $1.5k event and then just catching the next one which will be in a day or two at the most...

basically, with the sheer number of tourneys I just don't see it as being a problem. You can manage your tourneys and fit in the occasional DDS tourney...

because they need dealers for each wsop noon event.

Not to mention a huge portion of the field is players that dropped out of the noon event, fields would suffer big time if you moved them up that early

Many casual players come in for the weekends (when DDS fields are the largest), play the Friday DDS, then $1.5k on Sat and / or $1k on Sunday. If you stopped a DDS at 27 remaining, even with a 1,400 field size, 27th still only gets about $1.5k and 9th just over $3k, so why risk missing your bracelet event for that? You'd have to make top 4 before "it doesn't matter".

It's easier to find another event to play. One of the beauties of the DDS is that it's a 1-day event, even if it does go to 5am.

The 12:00 bracelet event takes president over DDS, they can not start them at 9-10am and run the risk of not having enough dealers available at noon.

The WSOP Committee knows how popular the DDS has become over the years but they have balance dealer hours, space and other things you have no clue of.

The DDS was not created for skilled 2+2 players in mind. It was created

My flight is taking off...

They should start it at 1 and keep late reg open until 5

hooray derpstacks!

Really don't understand how anyone wants to make these 2 days. There are plenty if options if you don't want to play till 5 in the morning. Although, I really don't understand the issue.

Not enough dealers and sometime not enough space available when the bracelet event starts at 12 noon.

Maybe you forgot or was not there 5 or 6 days last year they had push DDS back a couple hours. One occasion they had to cap it @ 400 players and close registration because no available tables nor dealers.

This will happen on a Sunday. Saturdays are $1500NL with @700+ coming back on Sunday and Sunday noon will be $1000NL will average 2000 players, plus the 5:00 tournies.

Another reason WSOP will not help with chops. Does anyone remember the Jamie Gold court case?

"You owe me 6 million"..."No I don't"[/I][/I][/I][/I]

Here's another gem.

Last year M.M. (Grinder) owed IRS $424K. He was backed by P.A. for the $50K championship which he won over $1.4 mil.

M.M. called IRS reps. MM, PA & 2 agents settled in the Gold Card Cashier room.

Unless you are chopping with honest guys like MM, don't do it.

Yeh true i do remember that. They ran out of tables before too and had us playing right outside that buzios seafood place. But yeh it def makes sense why theyd push it back to 3pm, but it should remain a 1day tourney anyway plus maybe cut out one early level to speed things up.

For those of you who made a really deep run (last 3 tables or so), lol at it being a skill MTT at that time. Avg stack is ~12bbs and the $$ isn't very interesting until top 4-5. These are awesome 1 day MTTs where you get the feel of a $1k or $1.5K bracelet event until reality sets in and you remember that you will be done (out/chopped/won) in ~ 12 hours start to finish!

I took a beat and had 2.5 bbs UTG and literally shoved blind. It was somewhere around 12K or 15K for the BB and it folded arouind to the BB who tanked until I said "Look, its like a min raise and I haven't looked yet!" He reluctantly called with ATo! After laughing my @ss off, I promply sucked out and kept on running. The level of play in these is poor and if you have a solid understanding of short stack pf poker, they are not hard.

These events pull in a ton of poor players who then either play $$, STTs, or another daily MTT. Some even get the courage up to play a 1K/1.5K. I say quit complaining and leave them alone! Also, I support the 3:00 PM start as it will get more of the bracelet bustos as well. Good job, Ceasar's Ent.!

A buddy of mine chopped one 4 handed and got 20k, pretty sure they all got close to the same amount and some euro guy signed for the top spot as he was from a euro country with no tax liability. In this years W2 friend was only responsible for the W-2G that he signed for 4th (12k) despite getting 20k in the chop. Hope that helps

This example show how their current policy is by far the worst. They don't help players arrange safe, aboveboard chops, but they do permit them to pick the payout order thus facilitating tax fraud. Well played, Caesars. If you want to be a jerk about chops, then completely forbid them like you do in your bracelet events. Force us to play it out and everyone gets what they deserve (after a lot of short-stack gamboling). That's a distant 2nd from the top strategy which would be to facilitate fair chops like the Venetian and other houses, but at least it's not as bad as the current approach.

And can someone explain how the Jamie Gold story has anything to do with chops? That's a lesson about staking agreements, not final table deals. A backer should prefer an aboveboard chop anyway, since then they would know exactly how much their player banked in a tourney. In the story above, the player getting $20K could lie to both the IRS AND his backer about how much he took home that day.

The move makes sense for what beachman said early in this thread. The 2pm was pushed back to 3,4pm or cancelled altogether A BUNCH of times last summer due to massive noon event. I would think a good solution is going super turbo pre ante, like 20 min levels for lvls 1-4 or 1-6 or w.e and then 30 mins the rest of the way. Skipping 25-50 would be solid too. It's just unnessacry when ur starting w. 20k of whatever ss is. This thing should be as turbo as possible

Whilst I understand the argument, this make take some of the appeal away in terms of attracting the fields to begin with. Perhaps, on the handful of specific days when they run into that problem, they could speed things up a bit, but retain the normal format for the rest of the time.


This. Saw that comment when I was on the bus with my iPad so didn't bother responding then, but this is absolutely the case.

This is not true. Unless you don't mind a little tax fraud you are responsible for what you receive. There are ways to present your return it if you sign for more than you receive though it certainly complicates it. But simply signing for less than you receive does not alleviate you of the responsibility of the tax on what you actually received (though I concede that is probably how most people file).

Maybe they should be scheduled to play the FT the next day unless someone disagrees? Play the FT at noon or something the next day so you get some sleep and can still play the next days event? Dunno

Forum discussions like this one are great ways to brainstorm and potentially offer improvements. However, we need to keep the base assumptions clearly in mind:

1. This is a ONE DAY MTT. That really isn't debatable from Caesar's Entertainment's perspective.

2. It is a DEEP STACK (lol) MTT and plays that way for about 4 hours. This is awesome for the recreational players looking at a fun structure for the first x # of levels. Not many (out of the 1,200-1,400+) really looks that closely at the inflection points, the patience factor, or the mathmatical certainty that this MTT with 1,400 * 15,000 = 21 MILLION chips will be finished in about 12 to 14 hours with breaks!

3. It is sqarely targeted at the $200-$300 buy in market segment and thus is leveraging the incredible WSOP structure for the bracelet events. It was like a dream come true to see $50K+ for first last year. Most recreational one days are happy to get ~$3K for first, maybe $5K on the week-end! IMHO it was C.E.s response to the VDS, GN series, etc. that were taking this segment out of the RIO on non-NLHE bracelet events. However, it was never a featured event of the WSOP and really never will be. They are already structured to run the WSOP, these are almost truly variable cost events for C.E.

4. They run 3X per day, every day (with a few notable exceptions). Any small change to the current structure will have significant impact on daily operations for the WSOP. Prolly not gonna happen!

I say we actually give some props to C.E. here and appreciate how well they handled the success of these as field sizes grew to what was surely more than 3 sigma above their expectations, yet they didn't miss a beat! I for one will be playing several of them this summer.

Agree with this. These things are pretty much perfect for what they are IMO. Will be playing probably every day that I'm out of the wsop/V event by 3pm

Love the DS events, and will play as many as I can handle this year at the WSOP. The move to 3pm is a good thing, as anyone who has actually played in these things can attest - the delays and field capping that occurred last year when big bracelet events went at noon were a fairly big annoyance that a one hour push in starting time should help to correct.

Yeah it's one day, yeah it's a turbo. It's also a shot at 60K for $235! Credit where credit is due, well done CE!