Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Tournament Events Live updates from major events, logistics, trip reports, and other live (not televised) major tournament discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-26-2013, 06:41 PM   #76
tonymead
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 188
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

i used one to buy into 2 days of the deepstack 235 and a sng used the lammer and paid the difference in cash. never would i sell one less then face. although my buddy got in line for the 1500 last week and found a guy that sold two for 950.
tonymead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 11:16 PM   #77
dumanis
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Taipei
Posts: 734
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumanis View Post
I have 3 lammers to sell, can anyone do me a favor? Leaving in 3 days, prolly cant use it anyone, want to sell at face value, thx
already settle down with fellow 2+2er, gl everyone
dumanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 11:55 PM   #78
MoreDeadMoney
journeyman
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 336
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumanis View Post
already settle down with fellow 2+2er, gl everyone
I bought the dumanis lammers at face value based on the "be good to your fellow poker players" philosophy. Then as I was registering for tomorrow's 1500NL event, I started to wonder - Will I get the same number of Total Rewards points when paying w/ lammers vs paying with cash? I'm guessing that it's all the same, but does anyone know for sure?

Thx.

MDM
MoreDeadMoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 12:04 AM   #79
doublejoker
Old News
 
doublejoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,879
All the same
doublejoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 12:07 AM   #80
anemoney
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
My offer is open at $490 each for anyone with lammers
Did you really just offer less than face? Your title as ubernit is well deserved. I hope you end up with 15k of these lammers and no one buys them from you.
anemoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 03:56 AM   #81
pig4bill
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27,657
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Read the OP. That kind of offer is welcome, and the reason for this thread. Nobody has to sell if they want to hold out for face.
pig4bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 08:58 AM   #82
doublejoker
Old News
 
doublejoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by anemoney View Post
Did you really just offer less than face? Your title as ubernit is well deserved. I hope you end up with 15k of these lammers and no one buys them from you.
I don't resell them I've personally gotten stuck on two $500 lammers and a $100 one over the years by forgetting to use them. Ergo the $10 discount.
doublejoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:47 PM   #83
BillyBizzle
Pooh-Bah
 
BillyBizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,893
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
I don't resell them I've personally gotten stuck on two $500 lammers and a $100 one over the years by forgetting to use them. Ergo the $10 discount.
So we're supposed to give you a discount because you're forgetful?
BillyBizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 05:22 PM   #84
doublejoker
Old News
 
doublejoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,879
Because there is an opportunity cost to me buying it.
doublejoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 06:32 PM   #85
pwnsall
CFBBPC
 
pwnsall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 52,359
Do the SATs to the 50k pay out in lammers?
pwnsall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 12:01 AM   #86
magking1
adept
 
magking1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 731
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
Because there is an opportunity cost to me buying it.
I love this chainsaw character.
Great reasoning as to why he only wants to pay out $490 per lammer.

He wants us to subsidize his absentmindedness.

What I find to be really odd is that someone this nitty didnt use or sell his previous lammers before expiration, thats the most confusing thing of all.
magking1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 12:39 AM   #87
tufat23
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
tufat23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: blog updated: 5/6/2011
Posts: 11,629
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

what are u guys even saying? chainsaws a douche for valuing his time?

you're a douche if u think people should spend their time just to do a stranger a favor.

that said 490 for 500 lammers, im often around the rio.
tufat23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 02:51 AM   #88
MangoPort
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,287
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Quote:
Originally Posted by anemoney View Post
Did you really just offer less than face? Your title as ubernit is well deserved. I hope you end up with 15k of these lammers and no one buys them from you.
Such a dump post.

Sell them at whatever you want. How is this even a discussion?
MangoPort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 03:56 PM   #89
driverseati
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
driverseati's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Def. Coordinator of 2015 WSOP Champ
Posts: 7,138
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Lammers aren't cash, you can't spend them at the store or buy things with them. Therefore, lammers shouldn't be worth the same as cash, they should be less, how much less is up for debate. There is a reason why on Stars T$ had a 98-99% exchange rate, they were ALMOST cash, but not quite.

There's a few drawbacks to just buying up lammers. First, if you actually need the cash somehow and only have lammers, then it's more effort/time for yourself to try to exchange it back. That is a cost that some people are willing or not willing to pay. Secondly, if you register with lammers, and then unregister for a tournament, or your 1k SNG doesn't go, or whatever reason, you get lammers back and not cash. Then those lammers are now your problem.

The reason why lammers are being paid out is to avoid tax documentation and more paperwork for winners, especially late in the game with the mega satellites to the Main Event and also because that a must play seat system did not work in the past. This was the best solution, to allow players to buy into any event they want, and make it a satellite to anything they want. That is how it evolved, and why they aren't just cash SNGs.

Security is also instructed to not allow selling of lammers on the premises. I have already seen this enforced first hand. Obviously if you do it on the premises, do it in a place that isn't in view, but that is still another hurdle to jump over as well.

That said, don't be so quick to throw people under the bus for refusing to buy your lammers at face. They don't view that as part of their business model, and with good short-term economic reason. We can argue all day if that market was cut-off if it would affect the fields in satellites, but for the same reason you are selling your lammers at face is basically the same reason why another person may not want to buy your lammers at face value.
driverseati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:26 PM   #90
riverph7
old hand
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere close to Wall Street
Posts: 1,402
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Quote:
Originally Posted by driverseati View Post
Lammers aren't cash, you can't spend them at the store or buy things with them. Therefore, lammers shouldn't be worth the same as cash, they should be less, how much less is up for debate. There is a reason why on Stars T$ had a 98-99% exchange rate, they were ALMOST cash, but not quite.

There's a few drawbacks to just buying up lammers. First, if you actually need the cash somehow and only have lammers, then it's more effort/time for yourself to try to exchange it back. That is a cost that some people are willing or not willing to pay. Secondly, if you register with lammers, and then unregister for a tournament, or your 1k SNG doesn't go, or whatever reason, you get lammers back and not cash. Then those lammers are now your problem.

The reason why lammers are being paid out is to avoid tax documentation and more paperwork for winners, especially late in the game with the mega satellites to the Main Event and also because that a must play seat system did not work in the past. This was the best solution, to allow players to buy into any event they want, and make it a satellite to anything they want. That is how it evolved, and why they aren't just cash SNGs.

Security is also instructed to not allow selling of lammers on the premises. I have already seen this enforced first hand. Obviously if you do it on the premises, do it in a place that isn't in view, but that is still another hurdle to jump over as well.

That said, don't be so quick to throw people under the bus for refusing to buy your lammers at face. They don't view that as part of their business model, and with good short-term economic reason. We can argue all day if that market was cut-off if it would affect the fields in satellites, but for the same reason you are selling your lammers at face is basically the same reason why another person may not want to buy your lammers at face value.
Very Well Said !

+1
riverph7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:46 PM   #91
WillCK
adept
 
WillCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,162
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

I am not in Vegas nor am I in the lammer market...but

I can't believe people are seriously berating or looking down on people for a 2% vig on a lammer.

Cash is liquid

Lammers are not liquid...except to buy into another tourney over $500/multiple tourneys equaling $500+

If someone with cash is willing to take time out of their day to meet up with you and give you 98% of face for your lammer...and you are happy with that...then who is getting hurt here?...the lammer buyer picks up a free burger....and the seller is liquid for anything in Vegas they want.

I don't think it hurts the poker economy at all....is an STS grinder going to quit playing over 2%?...probably not...they will either stalk the registration line to try and get full value...or meet up with someone and pay the vig.

Lock poker money is selling at 40% of face....why?...cause it's inconvenient to get to the full value (takes 6 months)

Anyway...I agree with the poster above....a 2% vig isn't horrible to turn your plastic disk into cash...and it gives the buyer incentive to take the time to meet up with you and do it....it's a good option for those who don't feel comfortable stalking the registration line feeling like a panhandler.
WillCK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 10:55 PM   #92
pig4bill
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27,657
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Quote:
Originally Posted by driverseati View Post
Security is also instructed to not allow selling of lammers on the premises. I have already seen this enforced first hand. Obviously if you do it on the premises, do it in a place that isn't in view, but that is still another hurdle to jump over as well.
That's debatable, at least as far as it being official WSOP policy. SOME floorpeople have a huge burr up their ass about this, and it's my belief that they are the ones stirring up crap about it. I've seen them giving the poor old 70 year old security guard that sits on a stool in the registration area an earful about not letting anyone that's not registering into the area, nobody selling lammers, etc. OTOH I've asked Rio Security if they've been told to stop lammer sales, and he said no. He couldn't care less about lammer sales, etc.

So I think there's a very loud and irate segment of the WSOP Administration that has their panties in a twist over lammer sales, but it's not official it-came-from-Jack-Effel policy.
pig4bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 06:35 PM   #93
DonkvFish
adept
 
DonkvFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 938
Yea actually right in front of the booth where you pick up the seat cards .. A guy was selling lammers and was even sorta helped to make the sale happen .. Explaining that he indeed could use it for tourney entries

And in other instances I've seen them get ran off real aggressively
DonkvFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 02:52 PM   #94
TripleNet
journeyman
 
TripleNet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 265
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

If you get stuck with lammers after the WSOP is over are they good for next year's events or perhaps at a circuit event or are you just out of luck?
TripleNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 05:00 PM   #95
Nod88
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by driverseati View Post
Lammers aren't cash, you can't spend them at the store or buy things with them. Therefore, lammers shouldn't be worth the same as cash, they should be less, how much less is up for debate. There is a reason why on Stars T$ had a 98-99% exchange rate, they were ALMOST cash, but not quite.

There's a few drawbacks to just buying up lammers. First, if you actually need the cash somehow and only have lammers, then it's more effort/time for yourself to try to exchange it back. That is a cost that some people are willing or not willing to pay. Secondly, if you register with lammers, and then unregister for a tournament, or your 1k SNG doesn't go, or whatever reason, you get lammers back and not cash. Then those lammers are now your problem.

The reason why lammers are being paid out is to avoid tax documentation and more paperwork for winners, especially late in the game with the mega satellites to the Main Event and also because that a must play seat system did not work in the past. This was the best solution, to allow players to buy into any event they want, and make it a satellite to anything they want. That is how it evolved, and why they aren't just cash SNGs.

Security is also instructed to not allow selling of lammers on the premises. I have already seen this enforced first hand. Obviously if you do it on the premises, do it in a place that isn't in view, but that is still another hurdle to jump over as well.

That said, don't be so quick to throw people under the bus for refusing to buy your lammers at face. They don't view that as part of their business model, and with good short-term economic reason. We can argue all day if that market was cut-off if it would affect the fields in satellites, but for the same reason you are selling your lammers at face is basically the same reason why another person may not want to buy your lammers at face value.
If you are buying and selling lammers well in advance of tournies starting, then most of what you said is true, and lammers should trade for a slight discount. The going rate of 1-2% seems fine.

If, however, you are buying into a tournament about to start, there is no good reason to refuse to pay face value for lammers. It has zero cost to you.

You can argue about whether eliminating lammer sales would affect fields or not, but it wouldn't be much of an argument. The ability to sell lammers directly increases both regular tournament fields and satellite fields.

For example, a couple days ago, they were trying to get the last satellite of the night going, maybe around 5 am or so. A guy wanted to play, but didn't have enough cash, only lammers left, and needed to sell one. If nobody bought it, the satellite would not have run. Somebody did buy it, and the satellite ran.

The floorman witnessed it, and did not mind at all, and in fact seemed happy about it, that the satellite went off. Which brings me to another question. Do floormen have any incentive to get satellites going, or are they just trying to do a good job or not? I have seen some that don't seem to care whatsoever if satellites run or not, and I have seen some who hustle to try to get more running, to the point of asking players at existing tables if they will play another after this one or not. Just wondering how it affects them.
Nod88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 05:49 PM   #96
Joe Pulaski
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Joe Pulaski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,350
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

do lammers carry over from year to year

might donk around in some sattys if so
Joe Pulaski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 06:07 PM   #97
Nod88
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,393
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Don't think so. Can sell in/near line for Megas or main registration line.
Nod88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 09:33 PM   #98
DonkvFish
adept
 
DonkvFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pulaski View Post
do lammers carry over from year to year

might donk around in some sattys if so
They told me its good till July 14th
DonkvFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 12:03 AM   #99
KobeLDO
enthusiast
 
KobeLDO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by driverseati View Post
Lammers aren't cash, you can't spend them at the store or buy things with them. Therefore, lammers shouldn't be worth the same as cash, they should be less, how much less is up for debate. There is a reason why on Stars T$ had a 98-99% exchange rate, they were ALMOST cash, but not quite.

There's a few drawbacks to just buying up lammers. First, if you actually need the cash somehow and only have lammers, then it's more effort/time for yourself to try to exchange it back. That is a cost that some people are willing or not willing to pay. Secondly, if you register with lammers, and then unregister for a tournament, or your 1k SNG doesn't go, or whatever reason, you get lammers back and not cash. Then those lammers are now your problem.

The reason why lammers are being paid out is to avoid tax documentation and more paperwork for winners, especially late in the game with the mega satellites to the Main Event and also because that a must play seat system did not work in the past. This was the best solution, to allow players to buy into any event they want, and make it a satellite to anything they want. That is how it evolved, and why they aren't just cash SNGs.

Security is also instructed to not allow selling of lammers on the premises. I have already seen this enforced first hand. Obviously if you do it on the premises, do it in a place that isn't in view, but that is still another hurdle to jump over as well.

That said, don't be so quick to throw people under the bus for refusing to buy your lammers at face. They don't view that as part of their business model, and with good short-term economic reason. We can argue all day if that market was cut-off if it would affect the fields in satellites, but for the same reason you are selling your lammers at face is basically the same reason why another person may not want to buy your lammers at face value.
Lol can i watch you explain this to a middle aged guy in line at the rio? I just wanna lol at the look on his face.

Oh and i got a lammer story!

Inline to reggy for the 1k this weekend. Guy offers to sell two lammers to the kid in front of me for 1k. Kid is nice and agrees. In the middle of this transaction dude in front of the kid turns around, "do you know how easy those are to fake? I would never buy those!" The kid ignores him, buys the lammers, and the guy selling them walks off. Now the dude in front turns around again, "how many extra chips do you get for adding on with those?" Lol rioaments
KobeLDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 01:01 AM   #100
pig4bill
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 27,657
Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

He shoulda said "10,000. I'll sell them to you for $1100".
pig4bill is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online