Thanks Strife for trying, my bad. Was able to sell my lammer for face to a really nice guy registering for the 1k PLO yesterday morning.

AZ Mt., pretty unfortunate you feel this way but know what you mean. I just came out to the series for this weekend and played in 2 SNG's (chopped 1). There are the few of us who are really good people, fun to play with and are just looking for a nice individual to sell a lammer at face.

I agree with you, most of the people I played with were fun and enjoyable people. Unfortunately the lammer grinders that I encountered in general were not. I just don't know how to separate the 2 groups by who posts on here, and I'd prefer to encourage a fun environment, and by buying lammer from these grinders I'm not. It's too bad that the behavior of a few ruin it for the majority.

Haha, so guys who wear hoodies and sunglasses and don't talk just "ruin the experience" for you. Instead of being a grouchy, judgmental jerk maybe just find a new hobby. Or maybe go elsewhere if ur lookin for chatter, most of us play poker to win money, if that means wearing a hoodie or sunglasses to feel comfortable, then who the F are you to judge. Such pricks in this world today, and u yap about being a good guy, just save it.

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Wow, now that's an angry response. It's being grouchy and judgemental to want to have fun and have nice conversations with people while playing poker for a few days while in Vegas? Don't worry, I won't let my experience be ruined by your lack of interpersonal skills and inability to relate to others. I just stated I'm not going to encourage your behavior by buying your lammers. But hey, whatever, rant on if it makes you feel better.

"Your", when did i ever say this was about me? You don't even get it. You have already judged these people, you don't realize all groups of people are not the same. I know plenty of guys u profiled that have more personality than you could dream of. You are stereotyping as most do in our society, it's sad really. Buy my lammers? Haha, this has nothing to do with those, I'm not in that market, just wanted to point out what a jerk people like you are. Not to mention, just ignorant, you think guys wear those just to be cool? Sighhhhhh

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Well, we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this, since I'm really not in the mood to have a debate with you. l'll let you get back to your grinding

Just to give my 2 cents, i bought my lammer in line for $480 when a guy who looked like santa Claus offered it.

On the other hand, i sort of know lord strife from FL rooms and he's just a good guy helping out.

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Anyone playing the $10k tomorrow or Friday? I have 24 lammers I'd like to exchange. Bought a bunch at face last week and I would very much appreciate if someone could return the favor. Please PM.

You should never sell at a discount. Guys like Allen will try to take advantage of fellow players that think they'll be stuck with it.
Whenever I buy into an event I always look for the guys that are selling and I never try to chew them down. We should all look out for each other.

+1. I'll be busy playing Day 2 in a non-WSOP event and I plan to stop by the satellite room on Thursday night to buy a few lammers at face value instead of paying cash at the Cashier for a WSOP event the next day.





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Doesn't being the buyer kinda **** you if you're buying into a tournament with Lammers? For example, I buy $10k worth or Lammers at face value from some random guy to help him out or whatever and want to buy into the main event. I end up with a min cash of say $15k. It's my understanding that I'm on the hook for the full $15k payout as far as the IRS is concerned and when it comes to paying taxes. As opposed to if I had just bought in with $10k in cash I wouldn't even get a W-2G since it's not over $5k profit. Or even if I cashed for $20k I would only get a W-2G for $10k in profit. But if I paid with Lammers I would get a W-2G for $20k.

This is my understanding and why buying should def come with some sort of premium.

Why would the tax treatment be any different? A lammer is just a "check" for $500, and is no different than cash. If you win the lammer that is a taxable event, and should be declared.

I won a $1650 HPT main event seat in a $200 satellite. These are fully transferable and I've always sold them at face value with little trouble.

Offered this one to a guy in St. Louis and he said since I won it in a $200 satellite, that's all it was worth. Offered me $225. I laughed in his face & wished him the luck he was worthy of in the future.

With all the bad crap happening these days, it's pretty sad to see the poker community at times still trying to scam one another for such minimal benefits.

Never sell at a discount, never buy at a discount. Pass it on.

I dont see it as a scam unless its a huge discount because its the sellers getaway day. I will have two to sell later today though, and will accept face value! Ill be picking them up at the cage so if youre concerned about fakes, these will be direct from
wsop

It actually is different than cash. Sure if you win the lammer then yes it's no different for you as you would technically need to pay taxes on that won lammer. But if you buy the lammer for cash and then turn around and buy into an event with said lammer that lammer hasn't been taxed yet and would be treated as such. Where as if you buy in to the event with cash that cash has already been taxed and is not included in the profit or what needs to be declared as a taxable event.

When you buy into WSOP events with lammers it is clearly marked as such so the the cashier knows later how to set up your W-2G ect.

As I said before if you buy into an event with lammers and cash in the event you're responsible to pay taxes on the entire amount that you won since you bought in with lammers that technically weren't taxed yet. Where as had you bought in for cash you would only be responsible to pay taxes on the profit of said event prize.

Meaning: prize - buyin = what is taxable if you buy in with cash.

With lammers the entire prize is taxable. Seems like a ****ty deal for buyers that are paying taxes as they should be. Especially if you're playing in larger events.

This is brutal if accurate


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The cash you buy the lammer with was taxable whenever you received it. I dont know how the tax forms WSOP provides will show it, but there is no question that when you file the 10k cash you bought them with is not taxed twice.

Likewise when you win a satellite the difference between your buy in and the value of the entry is taxable when you win the satellite. Your only basis in the final event is the cost of the satellite buy in. There is an issue (for a non-professional) regarding whether the cost of multiple satellite entries are all part of your basis, since for non-pros technically the IRS taxes based on "sessions".

If pig4bill or other 2+2er poster has $1,000 in lammers to exchange for face value NOW, go to Yellow #296 table in WSOP Rio Pavillion room ASAP. We can walk to Cashier together instead of me paying cash to buy-in for tomorrow.

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The definition of a scam is a dishonest scheme or a fraud. How is two people entering into a business transaction to buy/sell a lammer a dishonest scheme or fraud? The beauty of the free market is if you don't like selling your $500 lammer for $480, then you can find someone who will buy it for $495. And if you don't like that, you can try to find someone who will buy it for face value of $500. But if no such person exists, then you've got to go with the best offer. That's how markets work. No schemes, no fraud, no scams.

It's pretty ironic how much poker players are against the free market considering poker is an inherently market-based game.

Bottom line is that satty lammers are not the same as cash. The Rio will issue you a W-2G which is also issued to the IRS. That W-2G will NOT show that you bought in with lammers. It will only show the total prize you were awarded. And since you bought in with lammers you are responsible for the entire prize and not just the profit. If you buy in with cash the W-2G will reflect that by only showing the profit from the event as taxable.

This in turn should give buyers a better deal for buying imo. Otherwise why buy them and **** yourself on your taxes?

I suspect most people just are unaware of this aspect of buying lammers and think they are just helping someone out.

Very much appreciate the offer but I'm not in town right now.

So people enter a satellite where the prize is not cash, yet expect full cash value if they win? Does not compute. Either enter a tournament or sell at a discount. I have some $500 gift certificates to my local mall that I never visit. Is it ok to sell them for $475 to someone who shops there? It seems like that would be win-win. There is a difference between scams and mutually beneficial transactions.

That plus the buyers have a non-zero risk of the lammers being fake, and the recent tax-talk might mean it is not even worth buying them at all if true.

Re: lammers and taxes, not being issued a W2 by WSOP or having tax withholding does not imply that your winnings are not taxable. All winnings are taxable just as most income is taxable regardless of the source. So if you win $4999 and are not subject to tax withholding, you still, technically, must report those winnings when you file your taxes. Conversely, just because you have money withheld from your winnings for tax purposes does not mean that it's gone forever, because when you file your taxes, you can deduct from your winnings your losses and perhaps even your expenses (i.e. purchase price of the lammers). Of course, talk to a tax professional about this and all tax matters, but the basic gist of this is not rocket science.

Exactly
You have a tax basis from your buy in regardless of the form of buy in, and regardless of what the W2-G says.