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Old 05-17-2013, 01:19 PM   #1
JohnnieAces
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2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

I posted this in the las vegas section, and thought it would be more appropriate over here.

last year i made a thread asking if we could set up a 2+2 lammer sale post. Didn't post any details but I thought it would go something like: at say 10:30 am and 10:30 pm, we can gather around one of the empty tables in the sngo section and trade them for $495 or something like that. I felt this would be like the way the T$ on stars used to be sold. I know theres a strong contingent of the community that insists they not go for less than face value, but I am in the camp that it's becoming a pain the ass to sit around and solicit takers. It makes me feel kind of scummy too, having to scope out the scene for WSOP "beat cops" too - shooing me away. Can we just agree that $495 is close enough to face that we sellers are not giving up much at all and the buyers are getting a small break too and finalize this? This way I feel that everyone feels happy, no one is taken advantage of, and no time is wasted...
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:05 PM   #2
Phanekim
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

this is a good idea. i would be down with this.
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:51 PM   #3
DrawMeOut
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

You can usually sell them at face value, had no problem last two years unloading them at night
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:10 AM   #4
aphbig1371
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

I think that setting a market is a good idea. Setting a price however, will probably limit potential buyers. Eventually, a price less than $495 will be offered and accepted, declining from there. If the price is kept open, more potential buyers will be in the market, ultimately helping the sellers realize a price closer to full value.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:24 AM   #5
NickMPK
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

This is a bad idea. The whole reason that people have been able to sell lammers relatively easily at face value is that there was not really a market to buy them for less. Please do not sell lammers for less than face value. I would be happy to buy a few at face before I buy into tournaments, so long as I can use them.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:21 AM   #6
pig4bill
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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Originally Posted by aphbig1371 View Post
I think that setting a market is a good idea. Setting a price however, will probably limit potential buyers. Eventually, a price less than $495 will be offered and accepted, declining from there. If the price is kept open, more potential buyers will be in the market, ultimately helping the sellers realize a price closer to full value.
That's how the New York Stock Exchange began. A bunch of guys meeting on a street corner and running an open outcry auction. People can offer their lammers up at $495, someone can bid $480, and eventually a sale will probably be made, etc, etc.

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This is a bad idea. The whole reason that people have been able to sell lammers relatively easily at face value is that there was not really a market to buy them for less. Please do not sell lammers for less than face value. I would be happy to buy a few at face before I buy into tournaments, so long as I can use them.
Obviously the people that can sell them "relatively easily at face value " won't show up. For me, it has been anything but easy to sell them at ANY price in the last couple of years. It's really kind of stupid to tell people to not sell at a discount - if they were able to sell at face they would. Who's going to take less money when they don't have to?

But if you're so certain you can sell them easily at face, shoiw up as a buyer.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:24 AM   #7
pokerproplaya08
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
This is a bad idea. The whole reason that people have been able to sell lammers relatively easily at face value is that there was not really a market to buy them for less. Please do not sell lammers for less than face value. I would be happy to buy a few at face before I buy into tournaments, so long as I can use them.
same
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:24 AM   #8
pig4bill
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Oh, and OP, I suggest you start thinking about an alternative meeting place. My guess is that suits will quickly run you off.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:24 PM   #9
JohnnieAces
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Thoughts:

I would love to only sell them at face value. I will echo Pig's thoughts and say I have not been able to. Last year, I had a bunch for sale so I went through the registration line at 11 am and surreptitiously asked to sell them to people in the line for $500. probably 9/10 people wouldn't talk to me. 1/10 would but most of them said sorry I already have mine or I would help you. OK fair enough. After about an hour and a half of this, I was able to sell 3. I had 6 or 7 more to go so I dumped them for $480 each. Had a flight to catch and had to. Maybe if I had a few more days, I could have gotten $500. To me, it is not worth doing this for days if it would take me 2 seconds to give them to one of you guys for $495. Are you guys who demand we not sell them for less mad at pokerstars for facilitating the T$ for $ trades? I would welcome the opportunity to foster the liquid, painless transaction of these lammers and help out tournament players while they help me out. I do believe a liquid secondary market of these chips is good for the poker ecosystem in general and doesn't hurt anybody.

Also, I think that if we said hey let's meet at table 357 (i dont' know the actual numbers but choose one that doesn't get much traffic) every day at 10:30 and just took a seat and conducted our business that none of the cops would know what we were doing or care. I don't think it'd be necessary to take it to the back alley or something.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:09 PM   #10
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

I would buy them but not at face, because it does nothing for my utility. If I was already there and I knew someone i'd happily pay 495 but to make a concious decision to meet and buy id probably want something like 490 and buy 5 of them.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:57 PM   #11
pwnsall
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

i've bought them off people at face value if im in line or something, no problem helping someone out

always a bit worried they'll be fake tho
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:18 PM   #12
Frank Sobotka
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Quote:
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Oh, and OP, I suggest you start thinking about an alternative meeting place. My guess is that suits will quickly run you off.
I've had no problem both buying and selling in the food area in years past.
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:20 PM   #13
NickMPK
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post

But if you're so certain you can sell them easily at face, shoiw up as a buyer.
The point is that if this market exists, it will be a lot harder to sell them at face value. The whole lammer sale thing then becomes about people trying to make money off other people, rather than just doing someone a favor.
It also degrades the value in sit-n-goes and satellites.

I seem to remember Bart Hanson discussed this prospect in detail on his podcast like 2 years ago, with the same conclusion.
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Old 05-18-2013, 08:10 PM   #14
KeepEvolving
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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Oh, and OP, I suggest you start thinking about an alternative meeting place. My guess is that suits will quickly run you off.
Exactly
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:09 PM   #15
JohnnieAces
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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The point is that if this market exists, it will be a lot harder to sell them at face value. The whole lammer sale thing then becomes about people trying to make money off other people, rather than just doing someone a favor.
It also degrades the value in sit-n-goes and satellites.

I seem to remember Bart Hanson discussed this prospect in detail on his podcast like 2 years ago, with the same conclusion.
OK if that is the conclusion then can we agree to all meet at the designated spot every day and trade them for $500? I mean, as a seller, I'm fine with that. Also if you don't want to make money off someone else are you against playing poker? IMO 1% commish is not at all predatory.

I would concede it'd be cool to be able to trade them at par, so if we could all transact amongst each other (I mean 2+2 people here) I would be fine with that. It's just more effective to have a centralized time and place than roaming up and down the aisles soliciting.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:05 PM   #16
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Or people can just post itt what and when they want to make a trade.
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Old 05-18-2013, 11:58 PM   #17
pig4bill
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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Originally Posted by tufat23 View Post
I would buy them but not at face, because it does nothing for my utility. If I was already there and I knew someone i'd happily pay 495 but to make a concious decision to meet and buy id probably want something like 490 and buy 5 of them.
Perfect, then you would state "I'll pay $490 for 5 of them", which is exactly like a NYSE bid order. Then if people are willing to sell at that price, you would do your business. If not, then someone might offer for $493, or whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
The point is that if this market exists, it will be a lot harder to sell them at face value. The whole lammer sale thing then becomes about people trying to make money off other people, rather than just doing someone a favor.
It also degrades the value in sit-n-goes and satellites.

I seem to remember Bart Hanson discussed this prospect in detail on his podcast like 2 years ago, with the same conclusion.
I think it's very unlikely that any person you approach to sell a lammer to that would be willing to buy it at face, would think "Hey, I'll just buy one at the Rio Lammer Exchange instead". This thing is going to, by necessity, remain on the down-low to avoid the WSOP Gestapo.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:03 AM   #18
doublejoker
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Ill buy all anyone has at $490 each. I'm entering well over 100k in tourneys and will wash them easily.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:29 AM   #19
riverph7
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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Ill buy all anyone has at $490 each. I'm entering well over 100k in tourneys and will wash them easily.
If it is legal why not wear a small patch on your shirt showing "2+2 X" and place your offer on the thread "I will buy @495 or I will buy @497 or " i will buy 1 to 5 @ 495 more then 5 @ 497 etc. this way player who are buying many will be contected buy players who has lammers which they can not use .
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:32 AM   #20
smd173
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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Ill buy all anyone has at $490 each. I'm entering well over 100k in tourneys and will wash them easily.
How about $490 and a food voucher?
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:56 PM   #21
pig4bill
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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If it is legal why not wear a small patch on your shirt showing "2+2 X" and place your offer on the thread "I will buy @495 or I will buy @497 or " i will buy 1 to 5 @ 495 more then 5 @ 497 etc. this way player who are buying many will be contected buy players who has lammers which they can not use .
I had even considered silkscreening a t-shirt saying "Lammers R Us - I sell lammers" but I figured I would get quickly ejected from the property.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:30 AM   #22
GrandpaGrinder
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Maybe meet up in Starbucks at 10:30 am and 10:30 pm for buyers and sellers a place away from Gestapo each day would be great. Buyer on way to cage and seller away from suits. Also 495 sounds reasonable for both parties If u really need full value uses for tourney entry. I'm in for Starbucks at 10:30 AM and P.M. Each day.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:58 AM   #23
808master
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

this is a good idea, was thinking of grinding satties.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:07 PM   #24
GolfPro
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

Is there any option to avoid getting scammed if the sale goes on at a offsite location (Starbucks etc.,)?

Can a rule be agreed on that the buyer will pay the decided/designated amount after successfully registering for an event.

I did this once and told the buyer that he can pay me the cash after he is done with the registration.

GolfPro
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:11 PM   #25
t_roy
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Re: 2+2 WSOP lammer exchange

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Originally Posted by GolfPro View Post
Is there any option to avoid getting scammed if the sale goes on at a offsite location (Starbucks etc.,)?

Can a rule be agreed on that the buyer will pay the decided/designated amount after successfully registering for an event.

I did this once and told the buyer that he can pay me the cash after he is done with the registration.

GolfPro
This opens people up to more scamming than it protects imo. Once you see what a real lammer looks like there is little risk of being scammed by some kind of fake. Much more likely for the lammer seller to end up just not getting payed. I would hope that if some scam starts up, it would be outed on 2p2 immediately.
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