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Old 01-05-2017, 12:16 AM   #26
Reducto
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

One thing that is different about the seniors event is that a LOT of people come to town for it and only play that event. If they bust early they aren't interested in playing anything else. Making it re-entry allows them to pop back in and at least get a full day of poker out of their trip. I'm guessing that is the reason for making this change.

I doubt the rebuy numbers will be anything close to what an open field $1000 re-entry event would be.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:55 AM   #27
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

I just saw that it looks like they will continue with 15% payouts, which is teh suck.
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:54 AM   #28
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

15% payouts are not bad for single-entry events, but they really suck for things like the Daily Deepstack, where the number of re-entries mean they pay 20%+ of unique entries.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:43 PM   #29
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

I think they're ok for the main, so that you get something for playing multiple days, but suck for everything else. You just about have to FT to get any kind of worthwhile payout. I FT'ed a daily deepstack last year, and 10th wasn't even 4 digits.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:30 PM   #30
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

No offense but I think most players opposed to 15% payouts are over-reacting here.
It's just a matter of getting used to it (many european tours pay 15% for a long time, and almost all players are fine with it).

I agree that some payouts are ridiculous (like getting 1,1 x buy-in for a min-cash), and it can frustrate many players, but overall it's very good for the poker economy to pay more players in tournaments.
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Old 01-06-2017, 06:43 PM   #31
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
Obviously the venue changes if it gets sold. I just hope it stays in LV.
I heard it's moving to Edmunton.


Nah... just wanted to see if my login still works.
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:31 AM   #32
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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Obviously the venue changes if it gets sold. I just hope it stays in LV.
Sorry. By venue I meant city. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be a major festival in Vegas at some point, but it may not be the actual "Main Event"
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:40 PM   #33
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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Sorry. By venue I meant city. That doesn't mean there wouldn't be a major festival in Vegas at some point, but it may not be the actual "Main Event"
You think it might move out of Vegas? And go where? Macau? I just can't see that happening. I can see it moving from the Rio but Vegas is still the poker center of the world.
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:26 AM   #34
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

There was rumor of Atlantic City. I think attendance would take a major nosedive if they did that.
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:49 AM   #35
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
There was rumor of Atlantic City. I think attendance would take a major nosedive if they did that.
Think is an understatement...I know I would not travel there, especially at rates like I always seem to see the few times I have considered flying up there. Even getting there would be a nuisance...United tried to implement a regular route out of Houston and gave it up almost right away.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:18 AM   #36
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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You think it might move out of Vegas? And go where? Macau? I just can't see that happening. I can see it moving from the Rio but Vegas is still the poker center of the world.
I doubt it would move somewhere so remote to North America, but California, Florida, somewhere in Canada are not out of the question, depending on who buys it. and more and more states are looking into legalizing gambling, so you never know what locale might be a good location in the future.

And if it does stay in Vegas, I wouldn't be shocked if the schedule were changed. Summer used to be the deadest of dead periods in Vegas, but business has really picked up in recent years with the proliferation of pool clubs and other attractions for younger people. I wouldn't be shocked if the series were moved to late summer, or early fall.
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Old 01-08-2017, 01:34 PM   #37
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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I doubt it would move somewhere so remote to North America, but California, Florida, somewhere in Canada are not out of the question, depending on who buys it. and more and more states are looking into legalizing gambling, so you never know what locale might be a good location in the future.

And if it does stay in Vegas, I wouldn't be shocked if the schedule were changed. Summer used to be the deadest of dead periods in Vegas, but business has really picked up in recent years with the proliferation of pool clubs and other attractions for younger people. I wouldn't be shocked if the series were moved to late summer, or early fall.
I still don't see that move happening. It would be too much of a risk to change the location, especially when you don't know what that will mean for attendance. Any new owners would be foolish to take that risk.

I agree that the date might change. October would be fun but a lot of college kids wouldn't be able to make it.
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:47 PM   #38
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

Think about what it takes to host it. Someone with a gaming license and a ton of floor space on their premises. I doubt any place in California qualifies. Any place that even gets close is in a semi-remote spot that doesn't have the hotel rooms to support it.

If a casino located in NJ buys it, they can't keep it in Vegas. Some other states have betting limits that make it difficult to run the full slate of tournaments. It will be a tough sell to anyone other than the huge Vegas casino groups. I wish it could be sold to someone without a gaming license, like maybe a consortium of Negreanu and some friends, or something like that.
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Old 01-08-2017, 04:52 PM   #39
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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I doubt it would move somewhere so remote to North America, but California, Florida, somewhere in Canada are not out of the question, depending on who buys it. and more and more states are looking into legalizing gambling, so you never know what locale might be a good location in the future.

And if it does stay in Vegas, I wouldn't be shocked if the schedule were changed. Summer used to be the deadest of dead periods in Vegas, but business has really picked up in recent years with the proliferation of pool clubs and other attractions for younger people. I wouldn't be shocked if the series were moved to late summer, or early fall.
If it moved out of Las Vegas it would be no more than a regional event for the background is immensely important. Not only are there many other tournaments during the series but the ability to visit and stay at multiple casinos, for any reason, would be lost.

The only venue who has multiple casinos/hotels within walking/cabbing distance is Atlantic City which would be good if prices came down but nah too much effort for minimal gain.

Any casino/hotel in Vegas would work(almost), assuming there is space . Looks like it will probably stay at the Rio, all things considered.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:15 PM   #40
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

I think a single re-entry for bracelet events would be OK, but might be impossible simply based on logistics - as these things are supposed to last a certain number of days and typically there's two brand new large tournaments starting every day - there might not be enough room with so many entries, especially in the 1K and 1500 events.

I really am becoming more and more convinced that the sacrilegious idea of allowing an entry for every day 1 in the Main Event is a good one (so if you busted on day 1A, you could re-enter on 1B, and if you bust 1B you could re-enter on 1C). The prize pool would balloon to a record high, and we would be much more likely to see established pros at the final table. I think there would be a ****-storm from the poker community, but I think it would be good for the game.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:44 PM   #41
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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If it moved out of Las Vegas it would be no more than a regional event for the background is immensely important. Not only are there many other tournaments during the series but the ability to visit and stay at multiple casinos, for any reason, would be lost.

The only venue who has multiple casinos/hotels within walking/cabbing distance is Atlantic City which would be good if prices came down but nah too much effort for minimal gain.

Any casino/hotel in Vegas would work(almost), assuming there is space . Looks like it will probably stay at the Rio, all things considered.
If the WSOP is sold, I doubt very much it will stay at the RIO since it would probably cost the WSOP too much to rent out that kind of space.

As for possible venues (outside of LV), its hard to say. But to be honest... you don't even really need a casino. You just need legalized gambling (or legalized poker), convention space and hotel space. There are plenty of places that might work if the legalities work out. It would obviously be easier, and perhaps cheaper, for a gambling concern or a casino to own it, but that certainly isn't a must.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:10 PM   #42
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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If the WSOP is sold, I doubt very much it will stay at the RIO since it would probably cost the WSOP too much to rent out that kind of space.

As for possible venues (outside of LV), its hard to say. But to be honest... you don't even really need a casino. You just need legalized gambling (or legalized poker), convention space and hotel space. There are plenty of places that might work if the legalities work out. It would obviously be easier, and perhaps cheaper, for a gambling concern or a casino to own it, but that certainly isn't a must.
My point is where ? During the series there are multiple playing venues such as Venetian, Wynn, Aria which offer strong tournaments plus the usual's and multiple poker rooms which fill during the series.

The series is a suction device for players but correspondingly the other events are saprophytic and add to the series. Personally , I go because there are so many possibilities;now remove the series from Vegas and see what you've got. Anyone can offer a building for a series outside of Vegas but the numbers will not follow.

I don't think any buyer would buy the series unless they knew exactly where it would go and they would also have the specifics of cost at their chosen site. If the numbers don't calculate , no sale. rio is an obvious choice and if Caesars wants to sell the series the patronage during the series wouldn't be a bad thing ; ie.they can use the business.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:19 PM   #43
Greg (FossilMan)
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
If the WSOP is sold, I doubt very much it will stay at the RIO since it would probably cost the WSOP too much to rent out that kind of space.
Actually, the opposite might be true. From what I heard, at least in the early years at the Rio, the WSOP was paying full price for everything. Even though the same corporation owns it all, each department has their own budget. The WSOP is told "you're at the Rio." Then, the guy in charge of the WSOP has to negotiate how much he's paying from his budget to the budgets of the convention space, food and beverage, etc. If you want to rent out convention space at a casino, they have the full price rates, but you usually can negotiate down from there, often by a lot. Per the rumor mill, WSOP was paying top price for everything, because the person running each department at the Rio knew they had a captive customer, who could not shop around and get a better deal somewhere else.

The pit at the Rio does better in June and July than any other months each year. If you owned the WSOP, and went to another property to negotiate a deal to hold it there, don't you think that the pit at that casino would be more than happy to help with some of your costs? Knowing that you are bringing them a ton of action for 1.5 months? As far as I know, the casino at the Rio kicks in nothing to the WSOP, even though it's presence makes them a lot of money.

All of this is a big part of the reason that tournament fees went up so much when the WSOP moved from Binions. At Binions, it's family-owned, and they didn't care about the budget of each individual department. They could tell food and beverage to give out free food right-and-left, and if the restaurants lost money during the WSOP, no big deal. The owners knew that loss was nothing compared to the gains elsewhere. But in corporations, each department head is responsible for their own budget, and is expected to turn a profit.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
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Old 01-12-2017, 07:27 PM   #44
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

http://www.wsop.com/news/2017/Jan/90...2017-WSOP.html

June 2, 3, 4 – $565 Colossus III – two starting flights a day (10am & 4pm) for three consecutive days

June 10, 11 – $1,500 Millionaire Maker – one starting flight each day at 10am on both the Saturday and Sunday

June 16, 18 – $1,000 Seniors & Super Seniors – 10am start time. Friday for Seniors; Sunday for Super Seniors

June 24, 25 – $1,500 Monster Stack – 10am starting flights on Saturday & Sunday.

July 1, 2 -- $888 Crazy Eights – two starting flights a day (10am & 4pm) for two consecutive days

July 8, 9, 10 -- $10,000 Main Event – one starting flight a day (11am) for three consecutive days


Looks like it's following a very similar weekend schedule compared to last year. There's also a plain $1500 NL sandwiched between the seniors events

Last edited by dimeat; 01-12-2017 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:51 AM   #45
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimeat View Post
http://www.wsop.com/news/2017/Jan/90...2017-WSOP.html

June 2, 3, 4 – $565 Colossus III – two starting flights a day (10am & 4pm) for three consecutive days

June 10, 11 – $1,500 Millionaire Maker – one starting flight each day at 10am on both the Saturday and Sunday

June 16, 18 – $1,000 Seniors & Super Seniors – 10am start time. Friday for Seniors; Sunday for Super Seniors

June 24, 25 – $1,500 Monster Stack – 10am starting flights on Saturday & Sunday.

July 1, 2 -- $888 Crazy Eights – two starting flights a day (10am & 4pm) for two consecutive days

July 8, 9, 10 -- $10,000 Main Event – one starting flight a day (11am) for three consecutive days


Looks like it's following a very similar weekend schedule compared to last year. There's also a plain $1500 NL sandwiched between the seniors events
It says Colossus will allow one reentry per flight. So people can fire two bullets for each flight with a possible 12 total rebuys? Am I misunderstanding this? That sounds like they WANT it to be a logistical nightmare like it was the first year.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:01 AM   #46
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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Originally Posted by Greg (FossilMan) View Post
Actually, the opposite might be true. From what I heard, at least in the early years at the Rio, the WSOP was paying full price for everything. Even though the same corporation owns it all, each department has their own budget. The WSOP is told "you're at the Rio." Then, the guy in charge of the WSOP has to negotiate how much he's paying from his budget to the budgets of the convention space, food and beverage, etc. If you want to rent out convention space at a casino, they have the full price rates, but you usually can negotiate down from there, often by a lot. Per the rumor mill, WSOP was paying top price for everything, because the person running each department at the Rio knew they had a captive customer, who could not shop around and get a better deal somewhere else.

The pit at the Rio does better in June and July than any other months each year. If you owned the WSOP, and went to another property to negotiate a deal to hold it there, don't you think that the pit at that casino would be more than happy to help with some of your costs? Knowing that you are bringing them a ton of action for 1.5 months? As far as I know, the casino at the Rio kicks in nothing to the WSOP, even though it's presence makes them a lot of money.

All of this is a big part of the reason that tournament fees went up so much when the WSOP moved from Binions. At Binions, it's family-owned, and they didn't care about the budget of each individual department. They could tell food and beverage to give out free food right-and-left, and if the restaurants lost money during the WSOP, no big deal. The owners knew that loss was nothing compared to the gains elsewhere. But in corporations, each department head is responsible for their own budget, and is expected to turn a profit.

Cheers, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
If CET sells it, would it even be legal to hold it in the Rio? Say Boyd bought it. They need a gaming license because it's a game of chance and they are raking it. I would think it has to be held on the premises specified in the gaming license.

This discussion is moot anyway, because actual reporting I saw said they aren't selling the WSOP anyway. They want to sell the interactive unit, but the WSOP won't be included. Which is probably why nobody has bought it.
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Old 01-13-2017, 03:08 PM   #47
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

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If CET sells it, would it even be legal to hold it in the Rio?
Of course it would. Just like there are wsop circuit events at non-CET casinos and WPT events all around the world. It would be up to the new owner if this ever happened to decide where they want to host it, obviously if another casino company buys it they would want it hosted on their own property.
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Old 01-13-2017, 04:47 PM   #48
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimeat View Post
http://www.wsop.com/news/2017/Jan/90...2017-WSOP.html

June 2, 3, 4 – $565 Colossus III – two starting flights a day (10am & 4pm) for three consecutive days

June 10, 11 – $1,500 Millionaire Maker – one starting flight each day at 10am on both the Saturday and Sunday

June 16, 18 – $1,000 Seniors & Super Seniors – 10am start time. Friday for Seniors; Sunday for Super Seniors

June 24, 25 – $1,500 Monster Stack – 10am starting flights on Saturday & Sunday.

July 1, 2 -- $888 Crazy Eights – two starting flights a day (10am & 4pm) for two consecutive days

July 8, 9, 10 -- $10,000 Main Event – one starting flight a day (11am) for three consecutive days


Looks like it's following a very similar weekend schedule compared to last year. There's also a plain $1500 NL sandwiched between the seniors events
Similar weekend lineup within the schedule, but worth noting that the starting flights on the big $1500NL events are Saturday-Sunday, not Friday-Saturday as in past years. Which means Day 2s will be on Monday. Important to know for the "weekend warrior" crowd. And I assume the Sunday schedules will be different too. Gone are the days of the Saturday $1500/Sunday $1000 standard lineup from a few years ago.
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Old 01-13-2017, 04:57 PM   #49
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

WSOP 2017 REGISTRATION

Online registration will return in 2017, using the bravo application. The dates for the online registration will be announced shortly, players will be able to enter WSOP tournaments using a credit card as a payment option. This year, regulatory approval has been granted for credit card transactions up to $10,000. Players can choose to buy into the Main Event and other events with an approved credit card.
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:41 PM   #50
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Re: WSOP- 2017 ?

It'd be interesting if Binion's converted the first few floors of their mothballed hotel to nice, clean, modern convention space and hosted the WSOP again.
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