This is a brilliant post on another forum laying out the evidence and coincidence:

http://www.findadeath.com/forum/show...postcount=1531

You can dispute what it means, but no one can dispute the coincidences as they are supported by the evidence.

By joS3ph
Coincidence List (Updated)

Coincidence No. 1:

Misskelley and Echols are only acquaintances, but in spite of that, Misskelley, when questioned by police, initially names Echols as “capable” of committing the murders. In his allegedly coerced confession, he names Echols as not only a participant in the crime, but the “ringleader.” In Paradise Lost, one of Misskelley's relatives makes a comment about Echols that suggests Echols and Misskelley were more than acquaintances;

Coincidence No. 2:

On the night of May 5, 1993, Narlene Hollingsworth, Tabetha Hollingsworth and Anthony Hollingsworth see a male wearing all black clothing, with black hair that looks like Echols, walking on the Service Road near Robin Hood Hills, with an individual who is the same height as Domini Teer, the same build as Domini Teer, has long hair similar to Domini Teer's and who looks like Domini Teer;

Coincidence No. 3:

Three Caucasian hairs are found on two of the victim's bodies, several Caucasian hairs are found on the victims' bodies and under the bindings, and one negroid hair found on the sheet used to wrap Christopher Byers' body for transport to the morgue. The three Caucasian hairs found on two victims' bodies are compared to hair from numerous suspects and members of the victims' families. The three hairs are found to be similar to Echols and one of the hairs is an exclusive similarity;

Coincidence No. 4:

Green polyester and green cotton fibers found on Michael Moore's clothing are compared to garments and items from the victims' homes, other suspect's clothing, and garments and items from the Baldwin, Echols, Teer, and Misskelley homes and are found to be similar only to a single cotton polyester blend "Geranimals" shirt that belonged to Echols' half-brother, Tim Hutchison. The Baldwins, Teers, Misskelleys, victims, and other suspects are not found to possess a similar shirt, nor are secondary fiber transfers similar to the questioned fibers found on the garments or items examined from the victims' homes, the other suspects' clothing or the Baldwin, Teer and Miskelley homes;

Coincidence No. 5:

Baldwin is named as a participant in the murders by Misskelley in his allegedly coerced confession;

Coincidence No. 6:

One red rayon fiber found on Christopher Byers' shirt are compared with garments and items from the victim's homes, other suspect's clothing and garments and items from the Baldwin, Echols, Teer and Misskelley homes and are found to be similar only to a single red rayon robe that belonged to Gail Grinnell, Baldwin's mother. The Echols, Teers, Misskelleys, victims and other suspects are not found to possess a similar robe, nor are secondary fiber transfers similar to the questioned fibers found on the garments or items examined from the victim's homes, the other suspect's clothing or the Echols, Teer and Misskelley homes;

Coincidence No. 7:

A spot of blood on a tee-shirt belonging to Misskelley is found to be similar to Michael Moore's blood by HLA-DQ Alpha profile.

Coincidence No. 8:

The blood on the tee-shirt is also similar to Misskelley's profile. An explanation for the presence of the blood is not official given by Misskelley's defense, although years later, supporters claim that Misskelley had a nose bleed that left only a small drop of blood on the tee-shirt;

Coincidence No. 9:

A survival knife, similar to one that Echols was known to possess, and one he often carried on his person, is found sticking blade down in the lake 30+ feet directly behind Baldwin's home in the Lakeshore Trailer Park;

Coincidence No. 10:

A spot of blood, discovered on a necklace seized from Echols at the time of his arrest, is similar to Steve Branch's blood by HLA-DQ Alpha profile.

Coincidence No. 11:

The blood on the necklace is also similar to Baldwin's profile and Echols claims that Baldwin frequently wore the necklace. Supporters allege that his zits bled on the necklace while he was wearing it. Echols claims that a police photograph documents Baldwin wearing the necklace, but no such photograph ever appears and Echols was wearing the necklace on the night of his arrest;

Coincidence No. 12:

Who confessed to the murders on at least six different occasions (three unofficial and three official) and were also named as participants by Misskelley? Echols and Baldwin.

Although not widely accepted as voluntary, how many suspects were named in Misskelley's confession? Echols and Baldwin.

Although not conclusive, how many suspects were found to have hair similar to all three of the Caucasian hairs found on two of the victim's bodies and were named in Misskelley's confession? Echols.

Although not conclusive, how many suspects were found to possess a garment similar to the green polyester and green cotton fibers found on Michael Moore's clothing, were the only suspect to be found to have hair similar to all three of the Caucasian hairs found on two of the victims' bodies, and were named in Misskelley's confession? Echols.

Although not widely accepted as credible, how many suspects were named by Narlene, Tabetha, and Anthony Hollingsworth as being on the Service Road near Robin Hood Hills on the night of May 5, were found to possess a garment similar to the green cotton and green polyester fibers found on Michael's clothing, were found to have hair similar to all three of the Caucasian hairs found on two of the victims' bodies, and were named in Misskelley's confession? Echols.

Although not widely accepted as conclusive, how many suspects were named as having once owned a knife similar to the "Lake" Knife and were also named as having routinely carried a knife like it, were identified on the Service Road near Robin Hood Hills by Narlene, Tabetha and Anthony Hollingsworth on the night of May 5, were found to possess a garment similar to the green polyester and green cotton fibers found on Michael's clothing, were found to have hair similar to all three hairs found on two of the victims' bodies, and were named in Misskelley's confession? Echols.

Although not widely accepted as conclusive, how many suspects were arrested wearing a necklace with blood similar to Steve Branch's, were named as owning a knife similar to the "Lake" Knife and were also named as having routinely carried a knife like it, were identified on the Service Road near Robin Hood Hills by Narlene, Tabetha and Anthony Hollingsworth on the night of May 5, were found to possess a garment similar to the green polyester and green cotton fibers found on Michael's clothing, were found to have hair similar to all three Caucasian hairs found on two of the victims' bodies, and were named in Misskelley's confession? Echols.

Although not conclusive, how many suspects were found to possess a robe similar to the red rayon fibers found on Christopher's shirt and were named in Misskelley's confession? Baldwin.

Although not widely accepted as conclusive, how many suspects had a knife found sticking blade down in the mud in a lake 30+ feet directly behind their home in Lakeshore Trailer Park, were found to possess a robe similar to the red rayon fibers found on Christopher's shirt, and were named in Misskelley's confession? Baldwin.

Although not widely accepted as voluntary, how many suspects confessed to the murders, and told police the names of his accomplices, the injuries to Christopher Byers, the injuries to Steve Branch's face, and without being prompted that he chased Michael Moore down? Misskelley.

Although not conclusive, how many suspects named by Misskelley were found to each possess a single garment in their homes similar to the red rayon fibers found on Christopher's clothing, and the green polyester and green cotton fibers found on Michael's clothing? Echols and Baldwin.

Although not widely accepted as conclusive, how many suspects were found to possess a shirt with a small drop of blood similar to Michael Moore's, whose co-defendants were included as suspects by the trace evidence, and who confessed to committing the murders? Misskelley.

The medieval philosopher William of Occan formulated the principle known as Occan's Razor: If two hypotheses purport to explain the same data, then, all other things being equal, the simpler hypotheses is to be preferred.

I could not help but think about the West Memphis Three case, and the often opposing explanations/views from supporters and non-supporters alike. An example would be: Was the Robin Hood Hills area the crime scene or merely a dump site? I tend to believe it is highly unlikely that the boys, who were last seen alive close to Robin Hood Hills, were abducted from that area, murdered, and then BROUGHT BACK to the same area - an area that was being searched.

I think I´ll have to go with Occan on that one (the simpler hypotheses): The boys were most likely murdered in Robin Hood Hills. Some things never change...

This was said after the conviction, not during the trial.

I interpreted it as a bitter statement - a lashing out in anger when no other means was available.

FF is there a link to the "luminol evidence?"

Was there any mention of Echol's psych history in the trial? Did either side seek to introduce those records?

I thought the girls at the softball field recanted their statements. What is the story with that?

if there were multiple confessions by Miskelly how come only one was at issue in his trial?


HP: impressive job.

The pendant is not lost. The prosecution elected not to use it because both Echols and Baldwin were known to wear it.

total grunching, i think they are so guilty i wonder how the f anyone can think otherwise unless they are mentally disturbed.

Fact: all i've watched is the first HBO doc, and part of the 2nd.

And now I will review this thread / the actual facts...

james ellroy was a sick bastard before his mom got murdered. and i dont think he actually went as gonzo over that murder as some people do over others, or even that murder in particular. ellroy wrote a book about it, sure, but he also wrote books that paralleled other events in history. not trying to nit, i get your point, that his mom's murder affected him in many ways, but i'm just saying i don't think ellroy is crazy over hte black dahlia at all.

Just how many excuses will people make? How do you explain him kissing at the parents and several other statements he made? One thing is not in question is how sick Echols is/was. The evidence to that is overwhelming. If you do not see that, I think you lying to yourself.


Here is a sketch of where the luminol was present:

http://callahan.8k.com/images/luminol/lum06.jpg

Here is a blood report:

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/luminol_dsmith.html

Yes. The 500 pages were admitted as evidence.

The mother of the two girls is the one who supposedly "recanted"

In reality, there was no "recant" from the mother. She simply stated that the she did not believe the girls. Both girls stand by their statements. The mother was not at the softball field. However, some people would feel she is a star witness but she is irrelevant.

Attorney client privilege. No one knew about his four month insistence guilt he claimed to his lawyers until just a few years ago when his trial lawyer testified at an appellate hearing. The same with the "bible confession". His post-conviction and transport confessions occurred after his trial.

No one said it was lost, I thought the evidence on it was destroyed...however I've soon discovered this is not the case and do wonder why this has not been tested yet.

it would be pretty awesome if echols & friends got out and then got ... uh... tragically met their end

Thank you for the replies. From what I've seen, I don't believe the kids did it, but I am neither emotionally or intellectually invested in that opinion. I appreciate hearing your counter arguments and about certain evidence, etc. that is not widely reported.

I do think Baldwin's response to his attorney's private question about whether Echol's could have done it is compelling: he pondered the question as if he was thinking it through in earnest. Unless Baldwin is a great actor, I think his doubt and/or suspicion in pondering the question shows he does not know if echols COULD have done it, therefore, at least Baldwin DID NOT do it.

Is there a clinical name for a mental condition where someone is obsessed with the supposed innocence of a stranger?

Thought I'd put this link in here, Devil's Knot is coming to fruition on film. The adaptation is set for a possible late 2012 release.

http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/dev...nt?oid=1892267

gotta up this after watching the third Paradise Lost.

They make a strong case that the Hobbs stepfather is the killer, bc they found his hair at the scene? ok, but the kid lived in the same house is him... ya know maybe he just picked up one of his hairs?

I've felt they were innocent the whole time, but man, Damien Echols was just so calm, so articulate and intelligent throughout the whole process that he seems like he could be a criminal mastermind.

The Misskelley confession still confuses the hell out of me.

I dont know, sorry for upping this, it's definitely the weirdest case I've ever followed.

My husband says if anything happens to me and DNA is involved he's screwed. My long hair ends up everywhere, even under the tape on packages we've mailed.

And if he were a hyper-excitable, drooling cretin, he'd seem like he could just be another dumb criminal. Psychopaths and non-psychopaths both come in all shapes, sizes, and flavors.

I recently watched all three documentaries and am leaning toward them being innocent.

The police not recording the 10h or so of interrogating of Misskelley seems like an enormous ****up. I also don't understand how there can't be any blood or fingerprints at all.

This whole thing made me look up a very famous Swedish "serial killer", Thomas Quick. Basically, he's a mental patient who have confessed to over 30 murders. However, for various reasons it's impossible for him to have committed most of those murders. For instance, he claims that he killed two Somalian kids in 1995. The problem is that they are still alive today. There's another case where he, during a reconstruction, eventually changes his story and leads the police to a small lake. He tells them that's where he dumped the girl's body. The police then decide to dry out the entire ****ing lake with pumps. Of course, no corpse is found. He was eventually convicted in that case (now overturned).

Eventually, he was charged and sentenced for eight of the murders. There is no technical evidence or witnesses against him at all. In the last few years he has retracted all of his confessions saying he was mentally unstable and heavily drugged when he confessed. In the documentary I watched, he is filmed at the supposed murder sites during reconstructions just staggering around. Obviously high as a kite. So far, two of the rulings have been overturned and all of them have been appealed. Insane.

Which brings me to my question. What is the protocol for sentencing someone for a murder without any technical evidence or witnesses? Even if they have confessed and it wasn't coerced, it seems like extremely thin ice.

FYP as it would be more relevant for this thread, although I do agree that the whole fanclub aspect is pretty strange. And in Paradise Lost 2 the "supporters" all come off like douches, plus it had way too much of that braintumor mongoloid tarding it up for the camera - in fact the whole part 2 felt just like a way to keep people "aware" of the case rather than having anything real to add.

Now I have no other knowledge of how the "supporters" are other than that documentary and some youtube comments, but from my blessedly limited experience with the "nons" (only this thread) they are way worse. I especially like how FleeingFish continues on after losing all credibility in his exchange regarding law stuff with Hey_Porter. "No, I'm spot on about the law stuff" (long post showing he is in fact nowhere close to spot on about the law stuff) "Ups... but I'm spot on about everything else!"

And plus it seems much weirder and darker to me to be obsessed that a stranger actually gets killed. Especially since there clearly is doubt.

Anyways, I liked Part 3 a lot. I don't know whether they are guilty or not, but it's my opinion that they shouldn't have been convicted. And that Judge Burnett came out of this one looking pretty bad.

supernit here, but in PL 3, damien echols indents the first sentence in each of his handwritten paragraphs halfway across the page in his letters to byars dad. wtf? that screams guilty imo.

I've seen all three documentaries and never really thought they were guilty, much less beyond a reasonable doubt. There was nothing connecting them to the murders except
that (forced) confession.

Just watched all 3 parts of this for the first time and it is a facinating story. Seems to me that the defense lawyers were beyond awful. Seems to me also that they are guilty but should have never been convicted "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Like most documentaries I felt it was very slanted and biased. They were railroaded for sure. But I am fairly convinced they were guilty too but not beyond a reasonable doubt.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment..._survivor_ama/

Damien Echols doing an AMA.

I have to say that it is surprising that he is in his 40s but still obsessed with the very "majick" that got him in so much trouble in the first place... and his favorite author is Stephen King.

Its a wild glimpse into how prison ******s human growth.

At least he doesn't come across as a total loon, and he does have a mind for strategy.

Echols is featured on the current Moth podcast also.

Well, I have found this thread very, very useful. Thanks for all those who have posted long before me. When you google this subject you get an endless stream of pundits parroting each other ... ah .. the power of google. I found the thread because my interest was kindled by this article ...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/13...e-after-death/

I thought the whole shared tattoo thing was weird.

I suspect he is getting some savvy advice too. Doing a reddit AMA session plays well to his fan club, guilty or innocent, I think it is accurate to say he has a fan club. So what can we find from his answers. I think the key to mining information from an AMA is to ignore the drivel from those commenting and focus on the IAm'er.

Here are some quotes from Damien Echols from reddit ...
On runes, tattoos, talismans and tarot
His favorite non-fiction authors, and how they affected his spiritual "growth"
Amazon search for John Michael Greer
Amazon search for Michelle Belanger
Amazon search for Doreen Virtue

Make sure you take a look at the book list links.

Here he mentions his association with Michale Graves
Apparantly he really likes Danzig. The reader should do there own google searches on danzig.

Why he lives in Salem Mass

Stumbled across this thread while looking for something else. I have to say there is more to it than I had previously supposed: I'd heard of the West Memphis Three, saw Echols on a Piers Morgan interview semi-recently and thought he was a gigantic tool, then forgot about it. They presented a super-simplified version of events, basically, "Listened to Metallica. Cut to: murder conviction (!)" in a clear case of railroading.

FleeingFish got some trouble for posting walls of text, but I'm not sure there is an alternative -- there is a lot of evidence they are guilty. Much of that evidence-- specifically the variety and extent of the injuries to the boys-- excludes a lone attacker, maybe even two attackers. Their alibis were contradictory and unsupported, their "exculpatory evidence" wasn't exactly as advertised, and, most important, Misskelley's account is mostly consistent (on the important parts, anyway) and is supported by the physical evidence.

Mr Bojangles remains a question mark. I remember Echols implicating him on Piers Morgan, but Echols didn't mention that this guy, whoever he is, was meant to accomplish a complex multiple murder while very disoriented and wearing a cast on one arm. Why leave that out?