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Old 12-15-2007, 01:22 AM   #826
MrWookie
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

Wow, nice reviews. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.

Also, I'm surprised that you call Stone Coast's Black Bear porter "outstanding." I was unimpressed with that one. It was a decent porter, but it didn't stand out to me.
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Old 12-15-2007, 01:43 AM   #827
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

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Wow, nice reviews. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.

Also, I'm surprised that you call Stone Coast's Black Bear porter "outstanding." I was unimpressed with that one. It was a decent porter, but it didn't stand out to me.
Thanks. I'm actually really looking forward to trying the Pere Noel, because De Ranke has produced a beer I love (Guldenberg) and a beer that I detest (DR XX Bitter) but most other people rave about.

As for black bear.. I have had it bottled and on cask. It was the best casked beer I've had, although I've only had a half dozen.

As for the bottled version, it was average. I vastly prefer baltic porters to most American styles, though. Strzelec, Okocim, and Sinebrychoff are probably my three favorite porters in no particular order.

Anyone going to the BA extreme festival in February?
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Old 12-15-2007, 01:47 AM   #828
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

Yeah, I prefer the Baltics, too. See if you can track down some of Flying Dog's Gonzo Imperial Porter to see how it stacks up against the Baltics from the Baltics. I'm curious what you think.
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:54 AM   #829
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

I was trying to figure out what to drink next, and then I remembered that I have a baltic porter in my fridge.

I don't think I've had this one for four years or so--the winter of my senior year in college.. but it's funny because I found a bottle in my fridge that belongs to no one else and I don't remember buying it.
D. Carnegie & Co. Stark Porter (5.5% abv):


8.80z bottle. Yes, the date on the bottle is the date is was brewed.
I get really lucky/unlucky finding ancient beers in strange places. No, I have no recollection of where I got it, but it can realistically only be one of three or four stores. I will be going back, just because this isn't exactly an easy find.

Pours black. No head, just a few tiny bubbles.. Ever-so-slightly roasted malt, fig (mmm!), bland coffee and raisinettes. I'm gonna let this one warm after the first few sips.

The earthy fruits in the nose are also in charge of the palate. A nice balanced sweetness without sourness or acidity. Tastes like m&ms and the stuffing of fig newtons and goes down oh so easy. There are weaknesses up front and in the finish, but they don't detract from what seems to be an interesting brew that has survived a decade intact, sans carbonation.

With warming, the beer smells 'dirtier' and dirtier. It's hard to describe the aroma, but it's nothing if not unique. The same is true of the taste. No bitterness, yet not too sweet. It took a while to figure it out, but it reminds me reminds me of riesen candies, just not as sweet.

Not really sure what to say about this one other than thumbs way up. A mysterious and subtle brew that is among the most interesting I've ever tried. I will be looking at my local stores for additional bottles of the 1997 vintage, and I will buy everything they have in stock.
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Old 12-15-2007, 12:02 PM   #830
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

Welcome to Beer Club Kyo, those were some really nice reviews. I am absolutely in love with Aventinus Eisbock, though I've only tried the 2005 bottling. I need to pick up more. Where are you from that you're considering the BA Extreme Fest? I went there last year and it was awesome. Tons of good stuff from brewers that we normally don't have access to in NY.

I haven't done a review for quite a while, so why not do two? Both are from Dogfish Head and tried on tap at a local bar. The first is the fruit monster known as Fort:



At 18% ABV, Dogfish proudly proclaims this to be the strongest fruit beer in the world. For whatever reason, the bar was serving this in a 12 oz. glass. The beer poured a dark shade of red with some fizzy white head. Upon first sniff you get a face full of sweet raspberries, teetering on the point of being medicinal. I guess I blame that on the alcohol. As a bit of a sour nut these days, sweet raspberries don't really do it for me. As for the taste, well it's pretty similar to the aroma; overly sweet raspberries and booze all the way. While this is an interesting experiment, I can't say I'm a big fan. In stores I think I've seen this go for about $15; which I can't justify. I give Fort 2.75

The bar we were at was having a Dogfish Head event and the second beer I'm reviewing is brand new and apparently will be in 750 ml bottles around April: Theobroma. From ratebeer.com

"This beer is based on chemical analysis of pottery fragments found in Honduras which revealed the earliest known alcoholic chocolate drink used by early civilization to toast special occasions. The discovery of this beverage pushed back the earliest use of cocoa for human consumption more than 500 years to 1200 BC. As per the analysis, Dogfish head's Theobroma (food of the gods) is brewed with Aztec cocoa powder and cocoa nibs, honey, chilies, and annatto (fragrant tree seeds). Theobroma is 10% ABV"

It was poured from the gravity keg, so the beer came out a bit warm and flat. It was a hazy golden color, which I wasn't expecting for a beer with chocolate in it. The aroma was certainly interesting, with chocolate, honey, and even sweet cherries. As for the taste, the chocolate wasn't terribly assertive here, more like in the background with honey sweetness. The beer was mostly yeasty; plenty of breadiness on the palate. The chocolate comes out more in the finish, which was nice. You would've never guessed this beer to be 10%, more like 5%. Apparently the beer shouldn't have been this hazy/yeasty, so perhaps it will be a bit of a different animal once it hits bottles. I'd be willing to try the finished product, as this was a better experiment than Fort for sure. and a half
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Old 12-15-2007, 06:42 PM   #831
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

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Welcome to Beer Club Kyo, those were some really nice reviews. I am absolutely in love with Aventinus Eisbock, though I've only tried the 2005 bottling. I need to pick up more. Where are you from that you're considering the BA Extreme Fest? I went there last year and it was awesome. Tons of good stuff from brewers that we normally don't have access to in NY.
I'm in Milford, CT. I've been to the last two Belgian festivals, the night of the lagers at the last American fest, and one night at the last German fest. The extreme fest is the only one I haven't hit up. My friend may be flying up for it.

re: Fort
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Upon first sniff you get a face full of sweet raspberries, teetering on the point of being medicinal. I guess I blame that on the alcohol. As a bit of a sour nut these days, sweet raspberries don't really do it for me. As for the taste, well it's pretty similar to the aroma; overly sweet raspberries and booze all the way. While this is an interesting experiment, I can't say I'm a big fan. In stores I think I've seen this go for about $15; which I can't justify. I give Fort 2.75
I agree with you on this one. Drank it two winters ago in a plastic cup at Foxwoods with a friend. Interesting, but way too acidic and not very drinkable. DFH usually treads the genius/insane line quite well, though.

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Theobroma. From ratebeer.com

It was poured from the gravity keg, so the beer came out a bit warm and flat. It was a hazy golden color, which I wasn't expecting for a beer with chocolate in it. The aroma was certainly interesting, with chocolate, honey, and even sweet cherries. As for the taste, the chocolate wasn't terribly assertive here, more like in the background with honey sweetness. The beer was mostly yeasty; plenty of breadiness on the palate. The chocolate comes out more in the finish, which was nice. You would've never guessed this beer to be 10%, more like 5%. Apparently the beer shouldn't have been this hazy/yeasty, so perhaps it will be a bit of a different animal once it hits bottles. I'd be willing to try the finished product, as this was a better experiment than Fort for sure. and a half
Have you had their other 'archaeological' beers? They're all weird. The visual description reminds me of Chateau Jiahu. Not sure if taht one was filtered. Look forward to trying this one out.
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:50 PM   #832
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

I picked up this cool variety 8 pack of Unibroue stuff. The box said it contains:

2 La Fin Du Monde's
2 Maudite's
1 Trois Pistoles
1 Blanche De Chamblay
1 Ephemere
1 Don de Dieu

But instead of 2 Maudite's I got 1 Maudite and 1 Chamblay Noire, which suits me just fine.

I've tried everything but the Ephemere and Chamblay Noire, but my memory of the Don de Dieu and Blanche de Chamblay aren't stellar, so it should be an interesting sample. Unfortunately, I've had to work all weekend and can't really enjoy these yet. My work schedule is pretty nuts until I fly home for the holidays Friday night, but I think I'm going to have one each night I come home in the hour or so I have before I need to go to bed. So expect some reviews!
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:24 PM   #833
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

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I picked up this cool variety 8 pack of Unibroue stuff.
La Terrible is my favorite beer. It's only available in 750mls, as far as I know.

I will now commence the battle of the Christmas Ales with Gouden Carolus Noel which, like La Terrible, is a Belgian Strong Dark ale, albeit one actually made in Belgium. 10% ABV.



Pours dark brown with good clarity. Pillowy head recedes in my La Chouffe tulip to under 1/4"

Aroma is rich, with dry spices, a little bit of maltiness, and that usual sugar/alcoholic sweetness that makes these beers my favorite style to drink.

First sip is snappy, and dark Licorice and Sambuca are the first things that come to mind. Spicy and medicinal, but also sweet. These characteristics are bound to express themselves more as it warms. The spices have a little bit of a dry sourness to them that leads to both a bright flavor and a very alcoholic finish. That's not to say it isn't smooth, just a mite bit unbalanced.

If you like a good spicy belgian, you've probably already tried the other Gouden Garolus offerings. The Grand Cru of the Emperor is pretty reliable. This one reminds me a little more of the Ambrio (I may be wrong here, I get this one mixed up with the classic in my memory) in its very distinct flavor profile.

Overall, just barely a
and a very distinctive first tasting for the season. I will probably snag another bottle of this before the end of the holidays because it's a good example of the broad 'style' of spicy holiday Ales.
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:58 PM   #834
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

A few also-rans from the past two weeks that I didn't bother to review in-depth:

- DFH Golden Era Imperial Pilsner: Very well done. Crisp and hoppy. A little expensive, but understandable considering the hop content. 3.5
- DFH olde school BarleyWine: Wow. English-style barleywine that reminds me of what would happen if you took the festina peche brew and filtered/concentrated it. Very sweet but delicious. 4
- Lagunitas Brown Shugga: TS;DD [too sweet, didn't drink.] it was the end of the session and this beer shouldn't have been tasted then. I know what they were going for, and they seem to have hit the mark, but I didn't really enjoy it. preliminary review: 2.5
- Sato No Homare Sake: I'm not even going to try to review a sake, but profoundly floral, amazingly clear, and the second-best filtered sake i've ever had. 4
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:44 AM   #835
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

I'm largely unimpressed with everything Lagunitas does. Maximus is OK, that's about it.
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Old 12-17-2007, 01:57 AM   #836
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

Is that the IPA? I liked that one, but it's nothing amazing. I recall liking 'the hairy eyeball' or whatever it was called. I agree with you, though.. I really haven't had anything of theirs that I thought was outstanding.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:12 AM   #837
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

It's their double/Imperial IPA. A couple of their specialty brews (the Zappa related ones) I liked enough, too. But as far as their main line... meh. I actually downright hate their copper ale. But then again I'm not a big fan of Rogue's Dead Guy Ale, which I found similar (though different styles I think), so that might just be a specific thing with.
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:00 AM   #838
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

Lagunitas' Undercover Shut Down Ale is amazing if you like hop bombs. To me, it beats Dogfish's 60 or 90 IPA. I think it's a limited release only.
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:22 PM   #839
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

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Lagunitas' Undercover Shut Down Ale is amazing if you like hop bombs. To me, it beats Dogfish's 60 or 90 IPA. I think it's a limited release only.
Forgot about this one and the latest Zappa release, which was tasty. Don't remember either enough to comment, though.

Tonight, a bomber of Hebrew Jewbilation Eleven. BA calls it an 'american strong ale,' but they've miscategorized a lot of beers in my experience. Label makes numerous references to the number, including the obligatory Spinal Tap quote. 11 malts. 11 hops. 11% abv.


This one's in my westvleteren chalice with Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra's "Twilight Slider" playing in the background. Irrelevant; time for the extra push over the cliff.

Deep, rich brown with 1/4" head that doesn't stick around for too long. Can't see through this one. Slight lacing. Aroma is pretty unremarkable aside from the prominent alcohol nose but hints of peat and dark chocolate and the first sip backs that up, bitter with black coffee notes. Kinda reminds me of Old Engine oil with a lot more bite and a little less malt--but still a lot.

The creamy mouthfeel and sweet/bitter balance are the winners in this brew. The 11 malts and 11 hops were probably not necessary, though. Very creamy with a nice bitter finish. If you like imperial stouts or coffee porters, you'll probably enjoy this one. Just a shade over and I would buy this again, but only to age it and see what comes of it.
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Old 12-18-2007, 02:09 AM   #840
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

Round three! De Ranke Pere Noel! Belgian Strong Pale Ale. 7% abv



I'm interested in trying this one out because I loved Guldenberg and seemingly went against the tide of love for the XX Bitter, which I detested. Maybe I just had an oxidized bottle or something, but it was nearly undrinkable.

For those of you who don't know, De Ranke likes to wrap their beers in paper, which I guess saves on labels, except for states that require labels on the bottles. My bottle of guldenberg was wrapped and labeled, which I thought was cute. Cork was a little bit dry and took some coercing to begin to properly accept my corkscrew. Had to clean out the top and some o fthe inside of the neck before pouring what ended up being a lively-headed amber. The photos are pretty accurate, btw. I'm using a half-second exposure with a tripod for these awful shots, but they at least represent the color and clarity of the beer very well. Head is about an inch, and dies down to a nice coating around 3/16" thick. That's the ommegang 10th anniversary flute you see.

Apparently (according to the label), De Ranke loves to use Hallertau and Brewer's gold hops in their beers. My problem with XX bitter was that I could taste nothing else when I drank it, and the hops didn't taste refreshing, just bitter. I've had hop-bombs before and this one just didn't cut it for me.

This beer seems to lie in between the two I've tried. The smell is deliciously fresh-hoppy, if a tiny bit antiseptic/ethery. I smell some ground pepper in there for some reason.

Taste is a little thin up front--bright and a little american golden ale-ish; this one's all about the finish, especially when cold. Harsh hop tones abound.

As it warms, it gets a little more interesting up front. Thick, bready malt flavors abound--reminds me a little bit of 3 monts in this regard. The last few ounces will be very yeasty, so keep that in mind.

Definitely an interesting brew, I have to give de ranke credit for one thing---they always make something I can form an opinion on, but this is harder to do so than the others... I like it, but there's something about that peppery hop character that is a double edged sword, IMO. I imagine this could be paired very well with certain sweet foods, glazed meats and such.. On its own, the peppery hops just kinda bug me, though. If you like bitter, non-oily hops that don't have that profound tart character, check this one out. If youlike anything from De Ranke, this is definitely required drinking. Nevertheless, I can only really give it a strong , just barely shy of another half heart. I'd drink it again in a food pairing.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:56 PM   #841
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

Old Hooky

The award winning flagship beer of Hook Norton brewery, my nearest brewery (Oxfordshire, England).



It is probably my favourite beer ever. Hard to drink more than afew pints at a time (and too expensive for sessions anyway), but absolutely delicious. Quite hoppy, rich and fruity, with an amazing toffee after taste.

I have never met a real ale fan who does not consider it to be delicious. Even my australian neighbour who usually only drinks lager loves it. It is the beer that turned my dad from someone who exclusively drank continental lagers to someone who enjoys real ale also (yeah i know it is abnormal for a real ale drinking son to have a lager drinking dad).

definite 5/5

Last edited by tmcdmck; 12-18-2007 at 05:02 PM. Reason: pic does not show that beer's gorgeous almost red colouring
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Old 12-18-2007, 09:29 PM   #842
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

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'm using a half-second exposure with a tripod for these awful shots
If you're using a tripod, how are we ever going to find out what your thumb looks like?
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:48 AM   #843
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If you're using a tripod, how are we ever going to find out what your thumb looks like?
reflection in the glass. maybe i'll take a pic naked to see if anyone notices.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:41 AM   #844
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

Can't wait for this one

http://www.rogue.com/pdfs/RogueWireS...mperialRed.pdf

Feb 08'
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:58 PM   #845
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

rogue chocolate is one of my fav brews
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:10 AM   #846
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

No real review, although later I'll have one up of Bell's Two Hearted Ale.

I visited my folks over Christmas, and much to my surprise - and delight - they'd gone and bought several different beers and wanted to do a beer tasting. It was left to me to decide which beers to try, the order, and any food pairings that could be had out of the fridge/pantry. I've never done anything like this, so I did as best I could; I could at least describe the differences in beer styles, and try to justify different pairings.

I went with starting with Bell's Two Hearted (which I'd never had), then to Schlafly (St. Louis) Hefeweizen, then to Weihenstephaner Hefe, then to Paulaner Hefe, and finally to a Belgain tripel, Dulle Teve (I think?).

Bell's Two Hearted Ale lived up to everything I've ever heard about it. It's an American IPA that's extremely well-balanced. Great malt sweetness at the front with the hops growing towrads the end, but not so much you're left with a bitter beer at the back. Even my mom, who doesn't drink bitter beers at all, said she liked it. After we all had a taste, we tried another taste with a bit of English Cotswald cheese. Cotswald is (I guess, I don't know much about cheese) a lot like cheddar, with chives and onion added. The Bell's and Cotswald together was fantastic, beyond my greatest expectations. I really can't recommend it enough, and I'm really looking forward to trying another IPA with the Cotswald.

Next we stayed in the US, but shifted over to the hefes. I told the family that the American hefe would be much, much more mild than the IPA, but they should be able to pick up some of the banana and yeastiness/breadiness. They could, and my mom said that when she went to a restaurant and got a beer, she got Schlafly Hefe if they had it, and that she really liked it.

Next up was the Weihenstephaner, and right from the nose everyone could tell it was far apart from the American hefe. Much stronger nose, more complex flavor, and, surprisingly, different mouthfeel. Everyone noted that it seemed more carbonated than the Schlafly, and on second taste, I had to agree. I have no idea if that's a characteristic of Americans v. Germans, whetehr the Schlafly we opened was undercarbed, or what, but the Weihenstephaner was noticeably more carbed, and thus lighter and more playful on the palate. The usual strong banana and cloves came through with very low bitterness. We tried the Paulaner next, for comparison, and while it was much closer to the Weihenstephaner than the Schlafly, the main comments on it were that it was spicier - more of the peppery type flavors - and more bitter than the Weihenstephaner. Maybe that's why I don't like Paulaner as much: I'm a huge fan of tons of the banana/clove in my weizens. The Paulaner was also seemingly more carbed than the Schlafly.

We tried the hefes, all three, with a French goat cheese. The name escapes me (Chevre something, maybe?) but it was pretty creamy. It was kind of interesting, but nowhere near what the Bell's/Cotswald was. I think maybe the cheese was too soft and we'd have been better with something else, but I'd never tried it before.

Last, we had the Dulle Teve. It is a Tripel at 10% in an 11.2oz bottle. I've never heard of it before. The alcohol was pretty prominent in this one, especially in the aftertaste. I was hoping for a lot of fruit flavors and malt sweetness up front, but didn't really get it. Instead, it was a lot of different spices, almost like some dried fruits and pepper, fading into a pretty dry finish. I don't have much experience with Belgians at all, but I think something along the lines of La Fin du Monde would have been an excellent ending to the tasting, going from the bananas of the hefes to the apples/pears of Unibroue. We tried some Roquefort with the Dulle Teve, and I think the more I tried them together, the more I enjoyed each. Again, though, I don't have much experience with tripels or with strong, "stinky" French blue cheeses, so I don't think I can accurately judge either of them.

Overall, it was a really good time trying a bunch of beers side-by-side, and I was ecstatic to try Bell's Two Hearted Ale. The overall favorite was Weihenstephaner, as neither my mom nor my brother are big beer people and so won't go for the hops of an IPA or the complexity of a Belgian. The big surprise was how much my mom liked the Bell's, though. My folks live literally 20 feet away from a brewpub that's pretty good, and I can't remember her ever getting their IPA, but she said several times she liked it. It's really well-balanced. And, if I can harp on it some more, the English Cotswald brought both to a whole new level. I haven't had many experiences doing pairings of either beer or wine, so maybe that's why I'm over the moon about this great combo.

I'm hoping next year I can "hint" to the folks that they should buy some porters and stouts so we can explore the DARK side of beer!
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Old 12-27-2007, 07:43 PM   #847
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

I skimmed this whole thread as well as searched the internet, but I still can't figure out what this one beer is that I had a few years ago. It is a Belgian Golden Ale I guess. It had a milder taste, compared to something like Hoeegarden's spiciness. The one beer shop where I used to live had a big selection and sold 6 packs of this. It came in cans, slightly smaller than the typical 12oz (maybe 700ml?) and a 6 pack was in a printed shrinkwrap. I have no clue what the name was. Best I can tell you was that the cans and shrinkwrap were mainly light blue and white, with maybe a little yellow.

Where I live now, I haven't found a great beer shop, but it someone spots this Belgian beer you may want to try it. I would appreciate the name of it at least so I can try to track it down again. I remember calculating that it was slightly less $/ml than a 6 pack of Budweiser while on clearance, so it was an easy purchase, but I think it was one of my favorite unfiltered beers I have tried.

I feel kind of stupid to try to review beers, but I want to mention a few that I like.

The best place near me is the only one I know that sells this beer and it is the shop owner's favorite:

Buffalo Bill's Orange Blossom Cream Ale



The orange and other flavors aren't overpowering and I guess it could be described as having a refreshing flavor.

--

Quilmes



I think this is the national beer of Argentina and we tried it at the suggestion of a friend who lives there. A bar out west stocked it but I had to special order back east. Maybe my opinion as a taster sucks, but somehow this beer was different than any I had tasted. It was much milder than a couple Czech pilsners like Staropramen that I had tried. I expected it to be really crappy and standard from the looks of it, but there was something subtle that I liked and nothing unappealing.

Last, Balto Marz Hon (Marzen Lager) from Clipper City Brewing here in Baltimore:



I can't remember ever trying another Marzen, but I read now that this won a silver in the 2006 Great American Beer festival. Again my reviewing sucks because all I can say is that I like it and it is on the lighter taste/refreshing side of the spectrum.

All 3 of these beers are solid 4/5's for my personal taste and probably 3-3.5's for others.
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Old 12-27-2007, 08:33 PM   #848
RunDownHouse
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

zan,

No need to be so tentative in your reviews! Everyone starts from 0 experience and struggles with identifying tastes and flavors, and the only way to get better is to drink up. Something I really find helpful is reading a review where they give a super-specific flavor to a drink - it can be any beverage, beer, wine, soda, whatever. I then actually taste that flavor, then drink the beverage and try to relate the two. I remember when I visited a friend at a wine store and had some tastings. He had me try a white wine and then asked me what the predominant flavor was. It was so familiar, a little sharp, spicy, and fresh, and I knew I knew it but couldn't place it. After a few seconds, he simply said, "Green pepper," and it nailed it.

The flavors are there, so go drink some beer and try to identify the tastes. Read reviews, and if one says that a Belgian is strong in clove nose and peppery finish, get some cloves and some pepper and try the two side-by-side. Worst case scenario, you just had some great beer.
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Old 12-29-2007, 09:27 PM   #849
cwsiggy
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

Ok - another hop bomb -

Breckenridge Brewing company's 471 Small Batch IPA



stock photo (still no camera - working on it)

This is an extremely hoppy double IPA style with a whopping 9.2% ABV (yay!!)
Smell is veeeery intense sour pineapple(or is that grapefruit?) and quite frankly, one of the most intense smelling beers I have ever smelled.

Nice amber color with no head to speak of. For all the alcohol and hoppiness, this beer is very, very well balanced with a surprising smooth drinkability - Kudos to the brewer on this one. Lots of bitterness and citrus on the palate.
Breckenridge has a real winner here and the good news is they brew it year round so it's not really limited. Can't remember the cost but I don't think it's more than $3.50 - $4 (and that's at my overpriced store) and considering the alcohol content really isn't that bad.

but I'm a hophead. Give this one a try.
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Old 01-03-2008, 09:05 PM   #850
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Re: TLDR Beer Club

My girlfriend and I are enjoying Piraat this evening -- god, what a good beer -- and are having an argument over the proper pronunciation. Can someone help us out (we've made a substantial wager over this). Thanks.
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