Haven't read the rest of your post, you might have good points, but this one is just wrong. Read my post #233 addressing it a few posts up. I think you missed the point of Kylo and Hux altogether

Yeah, Kylo is supposed to be very flawed. Not much different from Vader really at that age. We just didn't know how much of a basket case young Vader/Anakin had been until the prequels. I guess very few people at a young age just want to be pure evil.

Perhaps on knowledge of the force and sabre skill, but there is that narrative spun across two movies where Vader didn't want to kill his son and still had some good in him.

It's obviously a curb-stomp if Luke is some random trainee Jedi, but he isn't.

Nope, it's correct. He can be emotionally damaged and not come off like an immature teenager. If he's going to be the driving evil force in this episode, he should look a little... you know... evil. When he looks and sounds like an immature kid then it's hard for him to be seen as a menacing evil force.

Mask should have stayed on, or they needed to cast someone who could play a more convincing evil.

Also the way he was treated in this was poorly done and further detracted from being taken seriously. It'll be hard to accept him as a legitimate bad guy from now on, for me at least.

Also, Luke kept training on his own. Several of years pass between the movies.

This is what I understand about the First Order:

The Republic is the ruling government in most of the galaxy. The remmants of the Empire hid away in the Outer Rim waiting to be more powerful to come back. It came back with the name First Order

The Republic does not like violence that much specially under the rule of Mon Mothma. So they tried to scale back their military. Once the First Order started getting more power, a faction of the Republic thought they should fight them with the military, this faction is led by Leia and she called this the Resistance.

Bluegrass: I disagree with your take on Kylo Ren. I don't think he's just representing evil, I think he represents someone trying to be very evil. I thought the actor did a great job with the character and showing how he tries to be pure evil but mostly fails. I think he will be more evil in the next installment after having killed his father.

I get that, and I don't disagree. The problem is he failed at looking the least bit evil. If I'm going to see a sith, or someone training to become a sith, then I want them to look like someone who wouldn't give up their seat for an old lady on a bus. They should sound a little bit menacing as well. If he's supposed to be conflicted, then he should look a little conflicted, like the dark side has some control over him. Even when he's going full dark side with his mask off he just looks like an angry teen, not someone giving in to the darkest powers in the universe.

The story does everything in its power to make him look incompetent and not evil as well: the red headed boy slaps him down a few times (also miscast). The new emperor also slaps him down. Finn stands up to him. He gets slapped down by a girl who just learned how to turn on a lighstaber. He's a joke.

The story was bad too. Maybe the worst of the 4. No, well, not worse than the directing. But certainly worse than the acting.

The entire premise was fatally flawed, there is no way to make a good trilogy out of Jesus Vader and the Taxation of Trade Routes, gtfo

Canon says 1 year or less between Empire and Jedi, 4 yrs from Hope to Empire and 30yrs from Jedi to Awakens.

Kylo Ren's voice sounded pretty menacing to me. I thought the voice was great.

He's also not incompetent. He got defeated by Rey, but he was quite hurt and I think he was not expecting her to be as strong as she was. She had a burst of attack for which he was unprepared to counter. He certainly showed plenty of power throughout the movie.
Also, the general that "puts him down" I think has the same rank and Kylo also puts him down a few times. It is also normal for Snoke to put Kylo down after not being able to read her mind.

To each their own, but I thought he was a great villain to add the the Star Wars story and he was much better than what I expected from the trailers.

I don't think anyone is saying that they do. I love Vader as a villain and I really liked Kylo Ren.

I don't know where the "Kylo Ren is clearly not well trained" people are coming from.


In the first 20 minutes we see him do 2 things we've seen no one else do (read minds, stop a blaster bolt in mid air and keep it there).


He's obviously very strong. I think having Rey even momentarily overpower him was a big mistake and it will require a bunch of contortions to explain it away.

They showed him getting shot and then had a cutaway to him bleeding on the snow. So... 2 contortions? Oh I guess 3 because he was previously shown to be unstable and unable to keep control of his emotions under stress. Rey, on the other hand, had been shown to be steely-eyed and resourceful, and also strong with the Force.


There's a ton of dumb **** in this movie(the geography of every scene transition is garbage, the way the Starkiller changes how it works mid-movie, the fan service/reboot laziness, the ending) but "our hero beat the villain" is pretty low on the list.

Why does everyone in the cast seem to be under 30 or over 65?

I thought Vader stopped laser shots in Empire Strikes Back. He didn't keep it in the air, but he did stop it.

The biggest problem with giving Rey a clean win over Ren isn't so much that it was implausible in the SW universe, it's that it hamstrings the writers with where the two characters go next.

With a Ren win it sets him up as a stronger villain, and Rey has even more reasons to seek out Luke. A Rey win doesn't really give either character any momentum in the next film, especially as she will now have Luke in her corner.

Snoke said Ren was going to receive more training so he will be more powerful in the rematch.

Yes, that would have definitely made for a stronger scene and setup

But he could have already had as much as 20 years training. What good will another few months make??

If Luke loses to Ren in a light sable battle in the next movie I will be laughing out loud.

Also, if Rey can pilot the Falcon and do mind tricks, why is she scrapping for rations?

Snoke said it was time for Ren to complete his training, suggesting he's still some distance from the finished product. He's not at Vader's level yet.

Doubt this will happen; TFA has been roundly criticised for being a rehash. Killing off Luke the same way that Obi-Wan died would demonstrate an astounding lack of originality. Rian Johnson's better than that.

Well she didn't know she could do mind tricks until it had been strongly implied by people and events that she is Force-sensitive. It was clear from the scene where she forces Daniel Craig to release her that the Jedi mind trick requires focus, as it took her three tries.

As for why she was scrapping for rations, the answer to that may lie as to why she's on Jakku in the first place. She probably never had the opportunity to fly something like the Falcon, which does beg the fair question of how she was able to master it so quickly.

Plot twist:

In the next movie Luke turns down Rey, who then seeks out the Supreme Leader for training. Ren, in turn, defeats his inner demons and seeks out Luke for training. Luke, angry with himself and saddened by the death of Han, agrees to train a now light-side Ren.

Ren has a face turn, Darth Rey becomes heel. Ren spends the entire movie training for a rematch with Rey and actually takes her down. Audience applauds

Movie 3 Finn is still trying to figure out what happened

Also why do people think that Luke will take on Obi-Wan's role? Han took the Obi-Wan role.

Luke will be playing the Yoda role - off planet Jedi elder who trains our hero

It's implied that Ren wasn't ready for the next level of dark side training until after he killed his father.