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Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

01-20-2017 , 09:40 AM
Lol Troi outranks Data by the end of the show. Clearly she had a better agent.
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01-20-2017 , 09:45 AM
Troi outranks Data but if Data had been on the bridge in Disaster after Troi was promoted Data would have been in command because he was second officer. That's why the episode makes no sense. Chain of command is a thing and doctors and chaplains and therapists aren't in it.
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01-20-2017 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punker
Your points don't make sense; Troi is not there as a ceremonial chaplain. She has been to the academy and undergone the required tests for her ranks (there's a whole episode about this in fact). She also isn't quite as strident as you claim in saying "do what I say".

What would have made that episode interesting and more realistic is if Ro mutinied. I don't believe Ro would have respected that chain of command if it (in her view) was basically a pointless death mission.
There is an episode where Troi asks Crusher why she made the effort to become a watch officer. Troi says something like why did you become qualified to be a watch officer when it is completely unnecessary to your duties as ship's doctor. Basically it's implied that Crusher would have topped out in rank as a Lt. Commander and could not have been promoted further unless she took the course and test on ships operations. Basically culminating in the course Troi later took to become a commander and officer capable of standing a watch on the bridge.

This all implies that until Crusher took that course, she is outside of the chain of command of the ship. She has authority over her medical staff and no one else. There are no circumstances under which she would ever give an order outside of the the context of her duties as ship's doctor. This is the same situation as doctors and lawyers and chaplains and dentists in the US military and other military organisations.

Now, Starfleet seems to have this cross-training program where ships doctors and ships counselors and I don't know, the barber or whatever can be integrated into the chain of command at least in a limited fashion. Whatever. Fine. So Crusher and later Troi become qualified to stand occasional watches on the bridge by taking the commander's course. Fine. But at the time of the episode Disaster, Troi wasn't qualified! And she quite clearly had no idea what was going on and had no business giving orders. And in any military structure that exists now she wouldn't have been giving orders.

Last edited by SenorKeeed; 01-20-2017 at 11:28 AM.
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01-20-2017 , 11:27 AM
And obviously Crusher and Troi aren't really in the chain of command of the ship even after they take the commander's course. When Riker and Picard are both missing in Gambit Dr. Crusher is the senior officer, but she obviously doesn't take command of the ship. Data takes command, and Worf is his second officer. Both are junior to Crusher but she of course doesn't assume command.
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01-20-2017 , 09:14 PM
It's also weird that Troi is constantly out of uniform. There were a lot of irregularities with the way Picard ran his ship.
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01-20-2017 , 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranberry Tea
It's also weird that Troi is constantly out of uniform. There were a lot of irregularities with the way Picard ran his ship.
This is where I agree with the Ferengi. Highly irregular uniform infeed!
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01-21-2017 , 07:53 AM
I think Sirtis said she much preferred it when she was moved into uniform, which ironically became a thing after the episode "Chain of Command" where Jelico asks her to stop wearing unflattering jumpsuits (or something like that).
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01-24-2017 , 12:00 PM


Saw this episode last night - vintage Riker.
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01-24-2017 , 12:27 PM
Steve Carell left The Office.
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01-24-2017 , 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
I think Sirtis said she much preferred it when she was moved into uniform, which ironically became a thing after the episode "Chain of Command" where Jelico asks her to stop wearing unflattering jumpsuits (or something like that).
Never understood why some people hate Jelico. His requests are totally reasonable.

"Troi, could you wear your uniform"
"LaForge, we're about to go to war, could you add some redundancy and improve engine efficiency"
"Riker, could you stop constantly undermining my authority and occasionally obey my orders?"

These guys are constantly all WE'RE THE BEST STARFLEET HAS TO OFFER but when some guy actually comes in and asks a little more from them they all throw a temper tantrum. Riker should have been court martialed and shot that episode. LaForge bitched to him and Riker was SYMPATHETIC. Riker implied to LaForge that Jelico was being unreasonable and too inflexible. Absolutely the wrong example to set as first officer, your job is to see the Captain's orders are carried out. You're supposed to be the bad guy as XO, absolutely not a shoulder to cry on for the crew to whine about how unreasonable the captain is being. Jelico should have shoved Riker out an air lock.
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01-25-2017 , 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
youtube clip

Saw this episode last night - vintage Riker.
Worf had some interesting relationships in DS9, no spoilers.
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01-25-2017 , 10:06 AM
Been watching Enterprise for a change of pace. I like the different century, and how they expand on the early tensions between vulcans and humans. Vulcan female is my desktop background.

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01-25-2017 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed
Never understood why some people hate Jelico. His requests are totally reasonable.

"Troi, could you wear your uniform"
"LaForge, we're about to go to war, could you add some redundancy and improve engine efficiency"
"Riker, could you stop constantly undermining my authority and occasionally obey my orders?"

These guys are constantly all WE'RE THE BEST STARFLEET HAS TO OFFER but when some guy actually comes in and asks a little more from them they all throw a temper tantrum. Riker should have been court martialed and shot that episode. LaForge bitched to him and Riker was SYMPATHETIC. Riker implied to LaForge that Jelico was being unreasonable and too inflexible. Absolutely the wrong example to set as first officer, your job is to see the Captain's orders are carried out. You're supposed to be the bad guy as XO, absolutely not a shoulder to cry on for the crew to whine about how unreasonable the captain is being. Jelico should have shoved Riker out an air lock.
It makes the audience uncomfortable to see the war side of starfleet, which is what Jerico represented. Picard was captain of a ship of exploration. I liked how the writers created the contrast in that episode, and thought it was good acting by whoever played Jerico. The whole crew under Jerico was beyond arrogant, agree 100%.
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01-25-2017 , 05:43 PM
Starfleet never followed strict military protocol terribly rigorously which probably helped the storytelling. No one wants to see Riker chewing out LaForge every other episode. They're way more chummy and laid-back than they might be in the Navy. This is probably a byproduct of the Roddenberry vision of the future. It's supposed to be about exploration and discovery and not about war.

By contrast, the Klingons seem to be all about protocol and strict military discipline.

Last edited by Cranberry Tea; 01-25-2017 at 05:50 PM.
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01-31-2017 , 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranberry Tea
Starfleet never followed strict military protocol terribly rigorously which probably helped the storytelling. No one wants to see Riker chewing out LaForge every other episode. They're way more chummy and laid-back than they might be in the Navy. This is probably a byproduct of the Roddenberry vision of the future. It's supposed to be about exploration and discovery and not about war.

By contrast, the Klingons seem to be all about protocol and strict military discipline.
The other episode that hit on this was the one with the Enterprise C. You remember?

They became more military based in response to war with the Klingons in a parallel universe, alternate time line.

Last edited by leavesofliberty; 01-31-2017 at 10:32 AM.
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01-31-2017 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor


Saw this episode last night - vintage Riker.
Also vintage Picard who never stops being Captain.
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02-01-2017 , 07:04 PM
ST TNG S4E10: The Loss

Troi loses her powers of telepathy/empathy when the Enterprise crashes into a swam of 2d bugs (I think). Whilst not as truly appalling as the central premise sounds, it really wasn't very good. The presence of Guinan out-counselling the counsellor was a fun part, as was anything involving Data - though the final resolution of how to get away from the 2D vermin was eye-wateringly creaky as the moth to a flame analogy was used to browbeat the audience into accepting the silly and slight plot conceit used to write an episode about some guff involving Troi's mind tricks.

2.5/10
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02-02-2017 , 02:30 AM
Riker constructed the world's smallest violin in that episode.
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02-02-2017 , 07:48 AM
Star Trek Enterprise: Season 2 Episode 1 (Shockwave, Part II)

Enemy insurrection. Time traveling oligarchs. Communication's operator played by Linda Park is like a boss in the vent.

8/10 imo, and I haven't finished the episode yet. Lots of suspense.
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02-04-2017 , 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diebitter
ST TNG S4E10: The Loss
I think this episode was inspired by the book Flatland, in which 2-dimensional beings try to understand 3D space. It's a fun, creative premise for a sci-fi show, but unfortunately this concept gets mostly abandoned and we get to watch Troi freak out for a while. Troi is allowed to be an interesting character for once, but the show still falls flat.

The one redeeming thing about this episode is Guinan trolling the heck out of Troi. I lol'd pretty hard at that.
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02-04-2017 , 04:10 PM
Hmmm, maybe I should watch that episode. I skipped it because of the bad rating on imdb, but if it is inspired by Flatland...
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02-04-2017 , 04:11 PM
I am going through DS9. Really enjoying it. I am midway through the first season.
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02-04-2017 , 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrique
Hmmm, maybe I should watch that episode. I skipped it because of the bad rating on imdb, but if it is inspired by Flatland...
I don't recommend it. They don't do a good job running with the 2D aliens premise.
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02-04-2017 , 07:07 PM
Thanks. I won't go back to it then. I'm halfway through season 6 of TNG (after skipping many episodes on the way).
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02-06-2017 , 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrique
I am going through DS9. Really enjoying it. I am midway through the first season.


Sisko has his moments.
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