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Old 09-19-2016, 01:44 AM   #1626
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

I guess what holds TNG back from being a really great TV show is the number of episodes that are just plain bad.

If I think about the Buffy run, there were a few mediocre episodes, but nothing like "Suddenly Human", which was season 1 bad.
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Old 09-19-2016, 11:13 AM   #1627
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

I mean it is really tough to put out 26 47 minute episodes a year. Bound to be a few stinkers even when the show is generally on point.
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Old 09-19-2016, 12:06 PM   #1628
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

I think with TNG there are very few mediocre episodes. The majority of episodes are mainly good or better, and then occasionally there is a stinker in there, with very little in between.

Funnily enough, the best examples of mediocre episodes are season finales "Time's Arrow" and "Descent" - both thoroughly underwhelming without ever being bad.
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Old 09-19-2016, 12:13 PM   #1629
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

I liked Time's Arrow. Descent was meh. Neither cliffhanger had any bite to it though.
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Old 09-20-2016, 03:46 AM   #1630
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

Times Arrow was watchable, but it was lazily written and relied on the time travel angle to carry the story.

If you take all of Data's scenes out, it's pretty dull.
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Old 09-20-2016, 05:11 PM   #1631
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

ST TNG S4E05: Remember Me

A weak episode that has to rely on Gates McFadden. She's good when acting against a decent to good actor and even on her own, but when she's onscreen with a poor actor, her game seems to go down. The scene with her and Troi seems brutally bad. Also, the episode isn't helped by overly functional writing, and by the requirement of the script for the other members of the Enterprise to act like dicks when she doesn't make sense to them. I like the high concept of being trapped in a parellel universe where everyone slowly disappears. The realisation of the concept is goofy though, mixing people just disappearing as if they'd never existed with the ship parts actually disappearing as the warp field shrinks. These are not the same things.

4/10
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:41 PM   #1632
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

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ST TNG S4E05: Remember Me
I rather liked this one, it very much reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode where spacemen come back to Earth and then start disappearing from history one by one. It's great conceptual spooky sci-fi and Gates McFadden always delivers (she does her own stunts in this one, incidentally).

The ending is deeply disappointing, though. The writers apparently painted themselves into a corner and had to give Wesley some magical timewarping power **** that rips off Star Wars's "the force" in astonishingly blatant ways. The Traveler character was written at the last minute in purely because he was a fan favorite at the time.
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Old 09-22-2016, 03:51 AM   #1633
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

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The ending is deeply disappointing, though. The writers apparently painted themselves into a corner and had to give Wesley some magical timewarping power **** that rips off Star Wars's "the force" in astonishingly blatant ways. The Traveler character was written at the last minute in purely because he was a fan favorite at the time.
Well, it was still a better solution than having the whole thing be a dream, which was what the first draft called for.
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:03 PM   #1634
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

The Traveler was a fan favorite?
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Old 09-22-2016, 01:14 PM   #1635
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

Hmm, yeah I can't say I was a fan of The Traveller.

Quite liked "Remember Me" though - one of those episodes that's much better the first time you watch it, as subsequent viewings just serve to expose bigger and bigger plot holes.
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Old 09-22-2016, 05:42 PM   #1636
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

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The Traveler was a fan favorite?
Apparently convention-goers liked him:

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The Traveler was added at the last minute. According to Michael Piller, "The first two drafts did not have the Traveler in it. The first draft ended with the realization of what had happened turning out to be a dream episode. We didn't find that satisfying, so we decided at the end of act three to pull everything from the first 60 pages into the first three acts and tell the audience what's going on on the other side of the warp bubble and how they're trying to get Beverly back. We spend the next two acts deciding how to get her back. At the beginning of the year we said we wanted to bring the Traveler back for something, so why not use him in this episode to help Beverly back." (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages)

Director Cliff Bole commented, "They added him because he's big at the conventions. He was just a walk-on." (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages)
For those keeping track, this is the second time one of Wesley's science experiments almost destroyed the ship.
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Old 09-25-2016, 01:36 AM   #1637
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

ST TNG S4E06: Legacy

Solid episode where Enterprise must revisit the violent lawless home planet of Tasha Yar to rescue Federation crew, only to encounter her sister, Ishara. This was a solid and exciting entry, with some heart. Ishara's bonding with Data was done well, showing her getting used to trusting others and living in a peaceable environment. It helped somewhat that the lead guest actress (who looks a little like Linda Hamilton from Terminator) was a better actress than Denise Crosby (she wasn't great or anything, but decent).

7/10
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Old 09-25-2016, 11:40 PM   #1638
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

Ironically, we only get a decent Tasha Yar episode long after she's been dead. The last 5-10 minutes of this are A+ in my book. Great work from Spiner and the guest star. Also liked the card trick bit at the beginning. It seems Data can sniff out some deceptions but not others.


This marks the 80th episode of ST:TNG. TOS had a run of 79 episodes.
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:44 AM   #1639
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

Yes, I think I underrated it. 8/10 on reflection.
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Old 09-26-2016, 02:24 AM   #1640
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

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Ironically, we only get a decent Tasha Yar episode long after she's been dead.
Season three's "Yesterday's Enterprise" legit top 5 episode.

I thought this episode was a solid 7. Again, I've made this point before - why can they seemingly find guest stars who are super-solid actors, when several of the main cast across the different series give such one-dimensional portrayals of their characters.
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Old 09-26-2016, 03:54 AM   #1641
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

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Originally Posted by Cranberry Tea View Post
Ironically, we only get a decent Tasha Yar episode long after she's been dead. The last 5-10 minutes of this are A+ in my book. Great work from Spiner and the guest star. Also liked the card trick bit at the beginning. It seems Data can sniff out some deceptions but not others.


This marks the 80th episode of ST:TNG. TOS had a run of 79 episodes.
This was a second good Tasha Yar episode. The first one was also after she died, Yesterday's Enterprise
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Old 09-26-2016, 05:58 PM   #1642
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

Yeah, I forgot about Yesterday's Enterprise.
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Old 09-26-2016, 07:23 PM   #1643
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

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Season three's "Yesterday's Enterprise" legit top 5 episode.

I thought this episode was a solid 7. Again, I've made this point before - why can they seemingly find guest stars who are super-solid actors, when several of the main cast across the different series give such one-dimensional portrayals of their characters.
Well this is because the show became great after season 2, and started showing promise in season 2. I don't remember any notable guest stars in the first two seasons.

Jean Simmons (!)
Michelle Forbes
Ashley Judd
Saul Rubinek
Famke Janssen
Paul Stubbs
Kelsey Grammer
Bebe Neuwirth
James Cromwell
Terry O'Quinn
David Ogden Stiers
Dwight Schultz
Matt Frewer
David Warner
Ronny Cox
Bob Gunton
Shooter McGavin

Were all in season 3+. I can't think of any notable guest stars from the first two seasons. I think it's easy to attract good guest stars when the show is hitting on all cylinders. And if people would have known in 1986 that the show would have been good they would have been able to get better talent for the regulars. They lucked out huge with Stewart and Spiner. Worf and Crusher and Colm Meany were also borderline luckboxes, Riker, LaForge and Troi were kind of meh, Crusher and Crosby were WOAT.
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:31 AM   #1644
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

Troi is pretty terrible imo
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Old 09-27-2016, 02:43 AM   #1645
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

You do make a good point. I don't think anyone really expected TNG to be as successful as it was - no one would ever have expected after season one that Picard v Kirk would be a genuine discussion. So yes, attracting decent actors for that show might not have been straight-forward.

However, I'm not sure the casting for DS9 or Voyager was any better. It's true that some actors don't want to be typecast, but if you're unknown and in your thirites then getting a very decent paycheck for the foreseeable future as well as a job for life visiting conventions, then why wouldn't you take it?
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Old 09-27-2016, 10:20 PM   #1646
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

Given the life-choices that got you to such a scenaraio, if you're a middling actor in your mid-thirties I highly doubt a regular paycheck is a high priority for you.
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Old 10-16-2016, 11:50 AM   #1647
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

ST TNG S4E07: Reunion

More political shenanegins in the Klingon empire, and a welcome return of Worf's love interest K'Ehleyr. The stuff with Worf and K'Ehleyr was the more interesting part of this episode to me, especially the inclusion of Worf's son, and how Worf deals with this given he has accepted the shame of belonging to a traitorous family for the good of the Klingon Empire, but is concerned how this may affect his son's future.

Klingons tend to guarantee an episode is highly watchable, and this was no exception. I just they hadn't have gotten rid of an occasional character in this one, I would like more episodes with that character in.

7/10
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Old 10-16-2016, 12:57 PM   #1648
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

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ST TNG S4E07: Reunion

More political shenanegins in the Klingon empire, and a welcome return of Worf's love interest K'Ehleyr. The stuff with Worf and K'Ehleyr was the more interesting part of this episode to me, especially the inclusion of Worf's son, and how Worf deals with this given he has accepted the shame of belonging to a traitorous family for the good of the Klingon Empire, but is concerned how this may affect his son's future.

Klingons tend to guarantee an episode is highly watchable, and this was no exception. I just they hadn't have gotten rid of an occasional character in this one, I would like more episodes with that character in.

7/10
Not sure which of the 2 you mean, but...

Spoiler:
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:54 AM   #1649
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

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Not sure which of the 2 you mean, but...

Spoiler:
I think he meant
Spoiler:
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:57 AM   #1650
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Re: Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

I did.
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