Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives - Page 89 - The Lounge Discussion and Review on Literature, Arts, Culture

"Chain of Command" felt too much like several clunky stories thrown together, and the whole Riker being relieved of command was dumb (although strictly speaking justified).

Otoh, David Warner is excellent (as is Ronny Cox) and the scenes with Stewart totally work are some of my favorite in Star Trek.

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08-13-2019 , 04:30 AM

#2202

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 47,021

I know it's a silly issue for such a great episode, but I always struggled with the idea that you would send the captain of your flagship on a wet works mission behind enemy lines. I know they set it up by saying he was the only person who understood the specific type of radiation or whatever macguffin they used to justify the mission, but it was still pretty ridiculous.

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08-14-2019 , 11:43 PM

#2203

synth_floyd

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Were they always so anal retentive about the prime directive? I thought it just meant you couldn't interfere with other civilizations, not that you literally had to hide your very existence from them. Just saw the "Who watches the watchers" episode of season 3.

There is another bump in quality from seasons 2 to 3 (though not as big as from seasons 1 to 2) but the show is still pretty hit and miss. If this keeps up through the rest of the season, I'm gonna stop watching every single episode and just skip to the recommended ones for the rest of the series.

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08-14-2019 , 11:56 PM

#2204

Lattimer

I is smart

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 15,463

Um, making your existence known to a primitive culture would be interfering with their society's natural development. WWTW was a good episode.

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08-15-2019 , 03:40 AM

#2205

Carpal \'Tunnel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by synth_floyd

Yeah, it's sort of a big deal throughout the lore of every series. Later shows break as a plot device more often to the point that it loses its impact, but yeah, it matters.

Also, now that you've seen WWtW, I suggest you watch the full length feature film Star Trek: Insurrection for a deeper look into the idea of clandestinely watching and interfering with a society.

Spoiler:

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There is another bump in quality from seasons 2 to 3 (though not as big as from seasons 1 to 2) but the show is still pretty hit and miss. If this keeps up through the rest of the season, I'm gonna stop watching every single episode and just skip to the recommended ones for the rest of the series.

Yeah, season 3 is great, it ends with the best episode(s) of the series. Enjoy.

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08-15-2019 , 10:36 AM

#2206

havocofsmeg

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 441

Quote:

Originally Posted by synth_floyd

There is another bump in quality from seasons 2 to 3 (though not as big as from seasons 1 to 2) but the show is still pretty hit and miss.

I'd actually say the quality jump from 2-3 was much higher than that of 1-2. The third season is actually the first season I'd recommend watching in it's entirety. 1 & 2 for me is very cherry pick heavy were as in 3 the quality is very much consistent.

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08-15-2019 , 11:23 AM

#2207

Kurn, son of Mogh

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Originally Posted by havocofsmeg

I agree with cherry picking the first two seasons.

For Q character arc, it's crucial.

Also the episode at the end of s1 where the Romulans appear, we get the first appearance in the series of Marc Alaimo, and a pretty good performance by Leon Rippy, later of "Deadwood" fame.

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08-15-2019 , 11:21 PM

#2208

synth_floyd

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I'm up to episode 10 and the two Romulan episodes in season 3 have been amazing, especially "The Defector." That episode is one where I'd say the jump in quality from season 2 was huge. It feels like they could've punched up the script a bit and made it a 2 parter or even a movie. It's probably my favorite episode of the series so far. The Romulan cold war arc is the most exciting thing the show has going on.

Last edited by synth_floyd; 08-15-2019 at 11:30 PM.

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08-16-2019 , 01:29 AM

#2209

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,798

Quote:

Originally Posted by havocofsmeg

Possibly, but the range improves significantly in s2. The best episode in s1 is probably a 7 at best, whereas in s2 there are several very good episodes, and a couple of top 10 contenders.

Mixed into this are a couple of stinkers and a few meh episodes, but these exist in every season.

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08-16-2019 , 03:40 PM

#2210

havocofsmeg

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 441

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

Looking at season 2, there's only 6 episodes I'd recommend watching, the only top tier episode being 'The Measure of a Man'. And lets not forget that S2 contains the nut low episode of TNG: Shades of Grey.

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08-16-2019 , 04:21 PM

#2211

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,798

Q Who as well. The episode in retrospect is nothing special, but given the impact of The Borg on future Star Trek it's a must watch.

Worth watching in S2 I'd go:

"Elementary, Dear Data"
"A Matter of Honor"
"The Measure of a Man"
"The Royale"
"Q Who"
"The Emissary"
"Peak Performance"

Maybe there are others, but glancing through the list of episodes these are the ones I remember.

Anyway, the more general point is I wouldn't recommend watching any episodes in S1 ahead of the ones I've listed there, maybe the last 2 episodes in s1 but that's pushing it.

The overall quality wasn't there in s2, but it's definitely where the show started to get some traction.

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08-16-2019 , 04:32 PM

#2212

havocofsmeg

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 441

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

"Elementary, Dear Data"
"A Matter of Honor"
"The Measure of a Man"
"The Royale"
"Q Who"
"The Emissary"
"Peak Performance"

Agree with 'Q who' actually, but personally would loose 'A Matter of Honor' and 'The Emissary' and replace with 'Contagion' and you've pretty much got the only decent episodes S2. Everything else varies from subjective to garbage.

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08-16-2019 , 09:51 PM

#2213

synth_floyd

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The only potentially must watch episode of season 1 is the pilot. It sets up the show, the characters and Q. Some of the other notable episodes for continuity reasons, like The Neutral Zone, Skin of Evil and Datalore can literally be summed up by one sentence each: The Romulans are back, Tasha dies, Data has an evil twin. And you're not missing much once you have that information.

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08-16-2019 , 11:19 PM

#2214

Carpal \'Tunnel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by havocofsmeg

And lets not forget that S2 contains the nut low episode of TNG: Shades of Grey.

"Code of Honor" would like a word.

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08-17-2019 , 06:00 AM

#2215

havocofsmeg

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 441

At least 'Code of Honor' wasn't mostly recycled.

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08-17-2019 , 01:44 PM

#2216

Lattimer

I is smart

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 15,463

Shade of Grey was a victim of the Writers Guild strike.

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08-17-2019 , 02:17 PM

#2217

havocofsmeg

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 441

True, but a naff episode with an excuse is still a naff episode. Shame it was Dr. Pulaski's last episode too.

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08-18-2019 , 01:32 AM

#2218

synth_floyd

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After watching the season 3 episode that had James Cromwell in it, I decided to watch First Contact. Great film.

If I was going to introduce Star Trek to someone who had never seen anything Trek related, this is what I would show them. It uses the entire cast well, great script, great acting, good action and has strong Star Trek themes.

And not only is Lily a great character on her own, but she functions as an audience surrogate when Picard and others explain to her what the Federation is, what the Borg are, what a Klingon is, etc. so that even a total noob to the franchise can keep up.

Last edited by synth_floyd; 08-18-2019 at 01:38 AM.

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08-22-2019 , 10:18 PM

#2219

synth_floyd

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Yesterday's Enterprise would work better if Guinan were completely cut from it. The decision to send back the Enterprise-C and Tasha's decision to sacrifice herself are much stronger if they are done on their own merits, rather than Guinan's magic powers and her going around telling everyone "YOU GOTTA BELIEVE ME!" Picard basically ends up deciding it on the merits anyway since it's pretty clear that sending them back is the better choice. But Guinan's "Tell me about Tasha Yar" line at the end almost redeems her role. The meta-commentary of the show admitting how bad "Skin of Evil" was, was also pretty funny.

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08-22-2019 , 11:41 PM

#2220

DC2LV

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,185

Quote:

Originally Posted by synth_floyd

Yesterday's Enterprise would work better if Guinan were completely cut from it. The decision to send back the Enterprise-C and Tasha's decision to sacrifice herself are much stronger if they are done on their own merits, rather than Guinan's magic powers and her going around telling everyone "YOU GOTTA BELIEVE ME!" Picard basically ends up deciding it on the merits anyway since it's pretty clear that sending them back is the better choice. But Guinan's "Tell me about Tasha Yar" line at the end almost redeems her role. The meta-commentary of the show admitting how bad "Skin of Evil" was, was also pretty funny.

None of that makes any sense. The episode does not work without Guinan telling Picard that there is something wrong with the timeline. Without Guinan, there's no reason whatsoever to send the Enterprise C back. The thought never would have even entered Picard's mind.

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08-24-2019 , 01:23 PM

#2221

synth_floyd

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They come up with reasons to send them back that have nothing to do with Guinan. Picard says that one more ship in the present won't change the war with the Klingons but that ship in the past could have a greater effect. And Data says that the Klingons would look favorably on them dying honorable deaths.

They could change a few lines, get rid of Guinan and make the decisions more proactive on the parts of the alternate Enterprise crew. It would've been a great debate to have: to send them back or no? But instead it's just Guinan telling them the correct answer and they eventually come around.

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08-24-2019 , 11:07 PM

#2222

Feldman

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,571

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

Worth watching in S2 I'd go:

"Elementary, Dear Data"
"A Matter of Honor"
"The Measure of a Man"
"The Royale"
"Q Who"
"The Emissary"
"Peak Performance"

I always chime in when The Royale is mentioned. It's one of my favorite episodes. Highly recommended by yours truly.

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08-25-2019 , 08:35 PM

#2223

DC2LV

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,185

Quote:

Originally Posted by synth_floyd

But again, that's only because of Guinan's info about the possibility of changing the timeline. I don't understand why you can't see that.

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10-07-2019 , 11:07 PM

#2224

Lattimer

I is smart

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 15,463

After watching the new Picard trailer and reading some comments on it, I discovered that Aron Eisenberg (Nog from DS9) died over 2 weeks ago.

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10-08-2019 , 12:50 AM

#2225

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 13,798

Just 50 years old - he (and Armin Shimmerman) was such a great actor to get his character across so strongly under all that prosthetic. RIP.

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