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Old 12-11-2007, 11:45 AM   #151
Thug Bubbles
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Re: No Country For Old Men

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Breed stuff was a joke...put down the scissors!

I read the thread. Perhaps, I need to rewatch the movie to and use the 'fate' theory to put everything in context. But really, for a movie that blended thrilling action, pacing, period ambiance so well, the ending did not fit.

I love the loungers here, but many people tend to be a bit snobbish about movies where the craft (direction/acting) was good, but the story wasn't.

The ending makes much more sense if you pay close attention to the beginning monologue.

I look at the movie as a generic (extremely well done) chase movie that serves as an excuse to talk about this higher concept that Jones' character monologue's about.

Ed Tom walks through this story with a hung head, longing for the good old days. But when he talks with his friend near the end, he's told that times haven't changed. Senseless violence killed his uncle, just as it killed Moss, and will kill others.

"This country is hard on people. Hard and crazy. Got the devil in it yet folks never seem to hold it to account...You can't stop what's comin. Ain't all waitin on you."

The dream is a fitting ending because it encapsulates the meaning of the movie. Even though Ed Tom hasn't seen God in his life, the dream implies that he still knows God will be there when he dies (gets to the fire); however, I think the most important part is the very last words: "And then I wake up." Which reminds us that this idea of knowing, faithfully, that he will be there when we get there, is just a dream.

"I always thought when I got older God would sort of come into my life in some way. He didn't."

i don't think any of this is reading much into it, there isn't much to read into. The ending is abrupt, but fits just fine.
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Old 12-17-2007, 02:38 AM   #152
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Re: No Country For Old Men

Just got done seeing it.

While I would have much prefered a brolin showdown and a happy ending with his wife.

Even with the sad ending this is still the best movie i've seen all year.
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Old 12-20-2007, 03:43 AM   #153
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Re: No Country For Old Men

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Originally Posted by Thug Bubbles View Post
The ending makes much more sense if you pay close attention to the beginning monologue.

I look at the movie as a generic (extremely well done) chase movie that serves as an excuse to talk about this higher concept that Jones' character monologue's about.

Ed Tom walks through this story with a hung head, longing for the good old days. But when he talks with his friend near the end, he's told that times haven't changed. Senseless violence killed his uncle, just as it killed Moss, and will kill others.

"This country is hard on people. Hard and crazy. Got the devil in it yet folks never seem to hold it to account...You can't stop what's comin. Ain't all waitin on you."

The dream is a fitting ending because it encapsulates the meaning of the movie. Even though Ed Tom hasn't seen God in his life, the dream implies that he still knows God will be there when he dies (gets to the fire); however, I think the most important part is the very last words: "And then I wake up." Which reminds us that this idea of knowing, faithfully, that he will be there when we get there, is just a dream.

"I always thought when I got older God would sort of come into my life in some way. He didn't."

i don't think any of this is reading much into it, there isn't much to read into. The ending is abrupt, but fits just fine.
This was my interperetation as well. I thought it was pretty straightforward. The movie is about fate, and the evil nature of man. The Sherrif is expressing a longing to connect with God in order to make sense of the suffering in this world. That's what the dream was about IMO.
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:23 PM   #154
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Re: No Country For Old Men

Just saw this film. It started great but then wow, what a crappy ending! Completely ruined it for me. Guess I'm just not smart enough to appreciate a film that lets its audience down like that. Where's the climactic showdown, eh, eh? Count me amongst the 17 pages of "hated it" on IMDB - while at the same time I can see there were some great performances, amazing cinematography, etc, the ending is such a choke it ruins the whole thing.

Let me quote from the review linked above:

"One argument could be made for the movie's integrity by way of the arcane narrative theories it employs. I don't buy it, but it could be made. It sets up a classic thriller situation, a particularly vivid hunter hunting a surprisingly capable man across a deadly landscape, used hundreds, perhaps thousands of times. It pauses time and again to emphasize the horror of the killer. By narrative convention then, the movie is building toward a confrontation between these two. We know it, we expect it, the rules of the thriller mandate its necessity. It represents the completion of the bargain the storyteller has made with us.

"No Country for Old Men" then vigorously subverts the convention. It's meant to be "ironic," with that big capital I. Instead it's unsatisfying, with a capital U. Nobody goes to the movies for the irony. They go for the satisfaction."


Gimme Leon any day... or for that matter, Blood Simple.

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Old 12-30-2007, 07:44 PM   #155
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Re: No Country For Old Men

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a particularly vivid hunter hunting
I don't know if I'd trust any reviewer who couldn't come up with a verb like "stalking" instead of more or less repeating himself.

In all seriousness, I loved the ending of the movie. It was not only powerful and surprising, but it supported the movie as a whole.
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:56 PM   #156
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Re: No Country For Old Men

Oh well, I can always watch Apocalypto again instead....
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:05 PM   #157
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Re: No Country For Old Men

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In all seriousness, I loved the ending of the movie. It was not only powerful and surprising, but it supported the movie as a whole.
+1

I am glad there was no ******ed Hollywood ending. They stayed true to the book and the premise of the story. The movie was almost perfect.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:39 AM   #158
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Re: No Country For Old Men

I was kinda ambivalent about the film. I just don't think the story was that great, and I disagree with everyone claiming Chigurh is the greatest screen villain of all time. I found him fairly uninteresting. With that said, every performance is amazing, the other characters really intrigued me, the dialogue was really engaging, and the fine touches are amazing. I particularly liked the motif running through with bloody shoes and feet: people follow trails of blood several times, Chigurh discards his bloody socks after one altercation, he casually lifts his feet off the floor to avoid a slowly expanding puddle of blood in another, then at the end, (spoiler in white) after he visits Carla-Jean we know exactly what it means when he checks the soles of his shoes.

Anyway, some questions:

A LITTLE BIT SPOILERY

How come the Mexicans, when they first track Llewellyn down in the hotel (not in El Passo) don't take the money? They tracked him down with the transponder, right, so they'd be able to find it in the vent...

Also, when Llewellyn finds the transponder, why does he place it on the cabinet next to him rather than destroy it? Seems a bit silly considering he clearly has smarts. It's even sillyer in the book.

And finally, how surprised could Llewellyn be when he goes back to the Mexican with the water and finds him dead? He struggled to enunciate 'water' first time round, and he'd been sitting in a car, mortally wounded, in the desert heat, without any water for most of the day. Seems like a longshot to stake his life and future on in the name of principle or whatever. Also, he probably would take water with him hunting, but whatever, he forgot it this time or something I guess.
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:15 AM   #159
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Re: No Country For Old Men

I thought he wanted to use the transponder against his enemies - that's what I'd do. You destroy it, you let them know you found it. You stick it to a car thats heading in the opposite direction than you are going, you send them on a wild goose hunt.
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:57 PM   #160
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Re: No Country For Old Men

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Also, I felt "destiny" and "what is destiny" was a major theme of the movie. Anton "had" top go see Carla Jean because he "had" to. And he "had" to flip that coin with the clerk and kill everyone he did because he "had" to. Then to slap Anton's idea of destiny in his face, they ran a car into the side of him at the end.
This seemed to me to be the point of Tommy Lee's dream at the end. There is a destination (destiny) for everyone. Tommy Lee's Dad is waiting ahead for him in the final destination.
IMO, in each case, the concept of destiny is intoduced but then contradicted. The Anton-Carla Jean scene is awesome, and Carla Jean accurately points out that it's up to Anton not the coin. Anton can fool himself into thinking that he has to do this or that, but that's clearly not the truth. I expected Anton to die in the car accident, but nonetheless, it's a quite unremarkable event that breaks his arm and nearly gets him caught. Destiny (as some grand idea) would have Anton go out in a massive gun battle. Instead he's injured in a simple traffic accident. Lastly, don't forget that Tommy Lee's dream was a dream. It seems like his Dad is waiting for him, but he's not.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:05 PM   #161
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Re: No Country For Old Men

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Originally Posted by Michaelson View Post
A LITTLE BIT SPOILERY

How come the Mexicans, when they first track Llewellyn down in the hotel (not in El Passo) don't take the money? They tracked him down with the transponder, right, so they'd be able to find it in the vent...

Also, when Llewellyn finds the transponder, why does he place it on the cabinet next to him rather than destroy it? Seems a bit silly considering he clearly has smarts. It's even sillyer in the book.

And finally, how surprised could Llewellyn be when he goes back to the Mexican with the water and finds him dead? He struggled to enunciate 'water' first time round, and he'd been sitting in a car, mortally wounded, in the desert heat, without any water for most of the day. Seems like a longshot to stake his life and future on in the name of principle or whatever. Also, he probably would take water with him hunting, but whatever, he forgot it this time or something I guess.
I don't see any of those as issues.

1. Perhaps the transponder can only indicate that the satchel is within 20 feet or whatever, not it's exact location.
2. Once Llewellyn finds the transponder, he rightly assumes that Anton is close and more or less knows where he is. He's more concerned with readying his gun then destroying the transponder, considering it has already outed his position.
3. Llewellyn acknowledges that in going back with the water that he's doing something dumb. He's trying to do something good, even if it has a low chance of success. He surely can't predict the full outcome of going back.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:22 PM   #162
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Re: No Country For Old Men

Re the hotel scene at the end.

Along with Dominic, I think that Tommy Lee Jones simply imagines Chigurh hiding behind the door. That's the only reasonable interpretation I can think of. Had Chigurh been in the room, someone is dying, plain and simple. Chigurh was there earlier, and Sheriff Bell gets there just a tiny bit too late. Same as earlier at Llewellyn's trailer.

All in all, I thought the movie was wonderful. Just an awesome movie all around. What is the significance of Carson Wells' character? Is it just to give more information about Chigurh?
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:32 AM   #163
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Re: No Country For Old Men

Saw it for the second time the other day. A few points.
I thought Tommy Lee Jones speech at the end had to do with him saying
"I always thought when I got older God would sort of come into my life in some way. He didn't."
I interpreted his speech to mean the fire/his dad = god and even though he can't find it yet he knows eventually it will enter his life. I suppose it could also be viewed that since he woke up it means he won't find god becuase it was a dream.

One question that is sort of irrellevant but i thought was intersting. When Chigurh goes back and kills Stephen Root. The other accountant is in the room and he asks Chigurh are you going to kill me. Chigurh looks at him right in the eye and says did you see me? I don't know whether he meant well you just saw me now your dead or if he spared his life. Consider when Chigurh breaks his arm he tells they boys they did not see him. He does not ask them.

One final point I think Woody Harrellson's character was excellent. I feel like he was supposed to represent good to contrast chigurh's evil. Consider that He is dressed in light colours compared to Chigurh's dark clothes. When Stephen Root hires him we are under the impression that Woody Harrellson can make this problem go away. He tells Moss in the hospital that if he needs protection to call him. However what we ultimately realize is that Wells is no match for Chigurh and he is killed so easily. In fact basically right when Carson sees Anton he basically resigns his fate and realizes what will happen.
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Old 01-02-2008, 05:45 PM   #164
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Re: No Country For Old Men

It's been addressed but not conclusively: Why did he kill the banker, and the two guys who gave him the transponder?

I can understand if he decided to forgo his contract with the banker in light of a second transponder being given to the Mexicans, but he killed the two guys at the initial murder scene well before he knew of a second transponder.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:49 PM   #165
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Re: No Country For Old Men

saw it only one time, but don't understand why. still want to watch it.
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Old 01-02-2008, 11:55 PM   #166
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Re: No Country For Old Men

In the book there's a slight implication that he doesn't feel he's being given the straight story by the two men from Dallas, by virtue of the fact that man in the truck asking for water had been shot between the eyes a lot later than anyone else there.

It's a tenuous implication even in the book, and it isn't there at all in the film - I don't think we even see that the man in the truck has been shot. Fits with Anton both as a character and as an expression of the violence in society though, as well as with his later actions regarding the organisation in the book (in the book he has some further interaction with them after shooting the man in the office, who was killed explicitly because he sent Wells after Anton, though in the movie the dialogue implies it was just as much for lesser transgressions, such as dicking Chigurh around, in which case sending Wells after him may have been as much a protective measure as anything else).
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Old 01-03-2008, 07:28 AM   #167
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Re: No Country For Old Men

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In the book there's a slight implication that he doesn't feel he's being given the straight story by the two men from Dallas, by virtue of the fact that man in the truck asking for water had been shot between the eyes a lot later than anyone else there.

It's a tenuous implication even in the book, and it isn't there at all in the film - I don't think we even see that the man in the truck has been shot. Fits with Anton both as a character and as an expression of the violence in society though, as well as with his later actions regarding the organisation in the book (in the book he has some further interaction with them after shooting the man in the office, who was killed explicitly because he sent Wells after Anton, though in the movie the dialogue implies it was just as much for lesser transgressions, such as dicking Chigurh around, in which case sending Wells after him may have been as much a protective measure as anything else).

IIRC When Moss returns to the scene he sets down the water jug and opens the truck door and the viewer sees a darkened cab, with the mexican guy dead, the glass behind his head has clearly been shot out and the man appears to have a large wound on his face/head
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Old 01-05-2008, 06:15 AM   #168
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Re: No Country For Old Men

Just saw this film and read through this whole thread. Amazing amazing film. The kind of film that you have to see more than once. Sooo many subtle things in it too. Did you guys notice how they used the extreme slow "zoom" (saying zoom because the camera moves in closer but it's not a zoom since the proportions don't change but it's also probably not a dolly since nobody could move it that slow... curious as to how this was done) throughout the film?

As far as the scene with TLJ going back to the hotel and Anton being in there, I am certain that Dom is right and that the shot of Anton was showing TLJ's fear. I am certain because when it cuts to Anton in the dark, he is anxious/scared to an extreme degree. This is fantasy, TLJ's fantasy because there is no f'ing way Anton would be scared in that situation. TLJ doesn't understand Anton and thinks he has these human qualities, which he doesn't. A statement on "evil" people, what exactly I am not sure yet.

I think this film is a lot about the idea of destiny. Anton controls his own destiny. Most others don't... most others leave it to "God". It's a lot about how much of a grip people have on reality. Whether they let their thoughts take them out of their reality, out of their now. I think Woody Harrelson's character is evidence of this. It is hinted that Woody is Anton's match or superior. I think this is true, and he was capable of taking Anton out. However, when is it that Anton is able to get him? After Woody has located the money, but has not yet been able to go down the river to get it. Woody's thoughts are consumed with the money, and reasonably so... 2 mill after all. Yet he should've been more concerned with his own survival, that is objective number 1. Since his mind is elsewhere, he wasn't able to do whatever it is he needed to to take out Anton. He failed to be the master of his destiny.

The car crash scene also goes to show that no matter how hard you try you can't always control what is going to happen to you. However, this does not mean you shouldn't try as hard as you can. In fact, realizing this aspect of life, when the random harms hit, deters most people from controlling their lives. Yet when it happens to Anton, he takes a minute, then keeps on going. I am reminded of the Churchill quote: "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." In a sense Anton is the hero of this film while at the same time being its villain.

Am definitely going to see this again in the theaters... more thoughts to come. But this is already one of my favorite films.

Last edited by Popinjay; 01-05-2008 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:46 PM   #169
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Re: No Country For Old Men

nice post, Pop...but just to clarify..you can dolly in extremely slowly with the right equipment.
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:14 AM   #170
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Re: No Country For Old Men

lol i dont have much to add im not reading the whole thread ....i thought it sucked i just saw it

boooooooooooooooooooooooring...some scenes were worthless
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:51 AM   #171
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Re: No Country For Old Men

I just saw this movie tonight and I was fascinated. The ending was not what I expected, but I don't think it could have ended any other way. I was really impressed with Josh Brolin's character and how resourceful/tough he was. I'm sure I will have some questions later so I'll have to come back to this thread.
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Old 01-06-2008, 06:40 AM   #172
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Re: No Country For Old Men

Hi friends,

I enjoyed this movie and thought that it was one of the best of 2007. With that said, I think that a lot of you are reading way too much into the themes of the movie.
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:54 PM   #173
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Re: No Country For Old Men

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lol i dont have much to add im not reading the whole thread ....i thought it sucked i just saw it

boooooooooooooooooooooooring...some scenes were worthless
or maybe it's possible the movie is very good and you don't understand it's themes and intentions, or can watch a film critically because all you expect of movies is for "**** to blow up real good."

I'm just sayin'
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:01 PM   #174
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Re: No Country For Old Men

i loved this thread and i appreciated the film, i just found it a bit of a disappointment. I felt the road they went down sacrificed any sort of character development so you were left with characters who you didnt really have any connection with. No emotion was ever shown throughout the movie. Llewyllen(sp?) and his wife seemed largely indifferent to the wealth they had stumbled upon.

Also the lack of any detail in some of the plot and characters really irritated me. How does woody harrelson know where to find him and know where to look for the suitcase? how does anton find woody so easily when we are led to believe woody is so good at what he does? It felt like they were skipping 10 pages at a time, like we were getting cliffnotes from the book with a lack of any real storytelling.
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:18 AM   #175
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Re: No Country For Old Men

Just read the book. Is the young female hitchhiker in the film?
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