Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

The Lounge: Discussion+Review For discussion and debate about arts, movies+TV, music, reading+literature, style, fashion, history, culture and many more subjects

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-28-2007, 04:52 PM   #101
milesdyson
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
milesdyson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,856
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
In the end I thought it possible, not likely, that Anton was in the other motel room.
i watched the movie again last night, and now that whole scene makes more sense. here's the time line as far as i can tell.

- ed (tommy lee jones) looks inside and sees something suspicious through the door.
- anton is clearly shown standing against the wall behind the same door.
- ed prepares to enter the room. he gets his gun, ***** it, and steps up to the door. *
- he begins to open the door slowly, and then swings it hard to open it all the way. the door knob hits the wall loudly (which would be impossible with anton behind it).
- he walks through the room, notices the open latch, then the dime, and then he leaves.

* this is when anton escapes through the window. there is a realistic amount of time for him to get out.
milesdyson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 06:29 PM   #102
Cry Me A River
Orange is the new Green
 
Cry Me A River's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23,790
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
The coin flip thing was weird. It I think gave Anton a little bit of conscience without wrecking his code. He is so nuts that he can not out right let people go. Especially in the end with the wife. He realizes that killing her has no point but he can not let her go............. flip a coin. I guess that is his way of showing mercy and not wrecking his code. For some odd reason that coin flip thing really fascinated me. It was a great study into human behavior.
Somebody tell me this is just a crazy coincidence and not at all meta:

Cry Me A River is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 07:33 PM   #103
SoulPower
old hand
 
SoulPower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ATL
Posts: 1,548
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
- he walks through the room, notices the open latch, then the dime, and then he leaves.
There seems to be some confusion about this so I went back and checked the screenplay linked above:

ROOM INSIDE


The door finishes creaking open. Sheriff Bell is a silhouette in the
doorway.

A still beat.

At length Sheriff Bell ducks under the chest-high police tape to enter.

The worn carpet has a large stain that glistens near the door. Sheriff
Bell steps over it, advancing slowly. The room is dimly lit shapes.

There is a bathroom door in the depth of the room. Sheriff Bell advan-
ced toward it. He stops in front of it.

He toes the door. It creaks slowly open.

The bathroom, with no spill light from outside, is pitch black.

Sheriff Bell reaches slowly up with one hand. He gropes at the inside
wall.

The light goes on: bright. White tile. Sheriff Bell squints. A beat.

He takes a step in.

He looks at the small window.

He looks at the window's swivel-catch, locked.
SoulPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 01:47 AM   #104
milesdyson
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
milesdyson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,856
Re: No Country For Old Men

well i can guarantee you the door swings all the way open and the door knob hits the wall. so are we to assume he's hiding under a bed, or what? and really, i did just assume the window latch was open since it seemed like the only plausible explanation. i don't have any windows like that - i think i've seen one like that once in my life.

so i can now say

WTF ?
milesdyson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 01:55 AM   #105
GTL
veteran
 
GTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,330
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
well i can guarantee you the door swings all the way open and the door knob hits the wall. so are we to assume he's hiding under a bed, or what? and really, i did just assume the window latch was open since it seemed like the only plausible explanation. i don't have any windows like that - i think i've seen one like that once in my life.

so i can now say

WTF ?
chigurh is not in the room when bell goes in. you can assume that there is no where to hide inside that hotel room. in my opinion, chigurh isn't in the room because bell doesn't want to face him. he is afraid, and is not willing to go up against chigurh like Moss was.

in the book, you never "see" chigurh in the room, you just know he was in there and got the money. i think they did it this way in the movie to add suspense.
GTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 06:16 PM   #106
Blarg
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chairmoistening Sector 7G
Posts: 53,529
Re: No Country For Old Men

An interesting response from a reader to Andrew Sarris's review of the movie:

"There is no need to call McCarthy a nihilist. That discredited school of philosophy has produced nothing of value, whereas McCarthy will last as long as there are American readers.

The project of every McCarthy novel can be summed up as a question: Every declining generation thinks the ascendant one is laying ruin to the previous' legacy, and in their vain desire to live forever, concludes that the new kids are leading the world to hell in a handbasket -- but what if sooner or later, one declining generation is right?"
Blarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2007, 11:57 PM   #107
GTL
veteran
 
GTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,330
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
An interesting response from a reader to Andrew Sarris's review of the movie:

"There is no need to call McCarthy a nihilist. That discredited school of philosophy has produced nothing of value, whereas McCarthy will last as long as there are American readers.

The project of every McCarthy novel can be summed up as a question: Every declining generation thinks the ascendant one is laying ruin to the previous' legacy, and in their vain desire to live forever, concludes that the new kids are leading the world to hell in a handbasket -- but what if sooner or later, one declining generation is right?"
i wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment. in many of McCarthy's books, the reader, or characters realize that previous generations who were idolized were just as terrible as present generations. but this isn't a bad thing, it's gives you hope. you realize that all the people you idolize had flaws just like you.

my take on the Bell's dream fits in with this. it's earlier in the thread and i'm too lazy to quote it.
GTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2007, 01:04 AM   #108
OrangeCat
journeyman
 
OrangeCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: City of Chicago
Posts: 383
Re: No Country For Old Men

Seems like a probable oscar winner for best adapted screenplay. Should get other nominations.

Funny bit of dialog:

Llewelyn: If you don't shut up I'm gonna have to take you in the back and screw ya
Carla Jean: Big talker
OrangeCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2007, 03:01 AM   #109
Thug Bubbles
Pooh-Bah
 
Thug Bubbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,183
Re: No Country For Old Men

Finally saw this film, and I'll probably watch it again this weekend. The sound was AMAZING. Not just how it had little to no music, but how that added the tension by allowing every small noise to signal something to the viewer just as it did for the characters.

Everybody is raving about Bardem and Brolin, who were
phenominal, but Jones came out on top, IMO. He seems similar to Eastwood, in that he's not very multi-faceted in the realm of Brando or Depp, but when he settles into his kind of roles he sinks deep. There was so much expression in his performance while he physically did very little. Just looking at his face when he was talking with Brolin's wife was remarkable.

One of the best Coen movies. Right below Lebowski and tied with Fargo.

What do you all think the movie was 'about'? There were some great themes floating around: self-determination, destiny, etc.

The ending was a perfect fit, with the fateful tidal storm of Bardem moving on, even after chance hits him, like he is the inevitability that nobody can have any control over.


Quote:
Quote:
GTL what are your thoughts on this(taken from comments section on blog in regards to Jones final speech)


"One of the things I most love about the end of the film is the ambiguity of Tommy Lee Jones' final monologue. I'm not referring to the film suddenly ending and some not understanding the point the film is making. Instead, I'm referring to the final line of dialogue that Sheriff Ed Tom Bell tells his wife about his second dream.

"I continue to think long and hard about that final line. And I ask myself how I'm supposed to take that line coming from that man.

"Is the story of the second dream supposed to provide a ray of hope, a sense of eventual contentment of a full life lived to its fullest being finally rewarded? Or am I supposed to take the final line as an admission that this kind of hope has been completely, irrevocably taken away? That the good sheriff had that dream of a hopeful place there in the dark, a warm place made by his father waiting for him out there in all that dark and all that cold.

"And then I woke up".

"And that the events he's recently seen have removed any possibility of that hope coming to pass?
In the beginning of the movie, Jones' character says,

I always knew you had to be willing to die to even do this job - not to be glorious. But I don't want to push my
chips forward and go out and meet something I don't understand. You can say it's my job to fight it but
I don't know what it is anymore. ...More than that, I don't want to know. A man would have to put his soul at hazard. ... He would have to say, okay, I'll be part of this world.

When talking about his dream at the end of the movie, the warm place he refers to seems to be the world he has fancied himself a part of, the olden days when times were better. He does not want to be a part of the new cruel world that doesn't make sense to him, and tries to escape by retiring. However, his wheelchair bound friend tells him that times haven't changed that much by telling him a story of a bunch of outlaws killing a sheriff. In his dream, Jones' character wakes up and realizes that is a part of this new, cruel word not the warm and cozy days of yester year.

Edit: In the screenplay I just read, it says the final line is " Out there up ahead", not " And then I woke up."
I think my interpretation was heavily influenced by missing pieces of dialogue through mutter and accent, but I was left with completely different feeling. Looking back at the actual dialogue, what you and others say fits perfectly. I still think that there is a darkness to it. Maybe I'm reading too much into the words, but Jones seems shaken with the dream when he re-tells it, and coupled with the scene directly before it (Chigur [Bardem] continuing on), I walked away thinking the dream was symbolic of death, and our inability to determine our own. Will have to watch again to really dig into this, because I like the duality between wanting/hoping for the better times against the cold present. That interpretation lifts up the ending quite a bit.

Here is the final few lines:

"...and when he rode past I seen he
was carryin fire in a horn the way
people used to do and I could see the
horn from the light inside of it.
About the color of the moon. And in
the dream I knew that he was goin on
ahead and that he was fixin to make a
fire somewhere out there in allthat
dark and all that cold, and I knew
that whenever I got there he would be
there. Out there up ahead. "
Thug Bubbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2007, 11:22 AM   #110
Thug Bubbles
Pooh-Bah
 
Thug Bubbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,183
Re: No Country For Old Men

Checking out some reviews, I decided to look into the select few who didn't like the film. Most seem to say it's just to dark for their tastes, but this Washington Post review maanged to explain why they didn't like it structurally and thematically. Oddly enough, I agree with every grievance he has with the film. However, I simply liked these things he didn't.

For example, he seems to think it's a generic thriller, with no character development, and while accepting that and being happy with a well put-together chase film he felt cheated when they didn't show the pay-off (the Anton/Moss showdown). I completely understand his annoyance, but simply like that very choice. No real explanation. I just liked it where he didn't.

I thought it was one of the few negative reviews that was acceptable.
Thug Bubbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2007, 10:55 AM   #111
Peter666
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Your own, personal, Antichrist
Posts: 3,586
Re: No Country For Old Men

Robert Bresson said that one should feel a movie before thinking about it.

Having watched No Country for Old Men, I felt left out in the cold and emotionally disattached in the end. The film is technically brilliant, and has some great moments of tension and characterization in the first half, but becomes convoluted in the second half. And since McCarthy has praised the film as being faithful to the book, I will have to blame the original story for the film's flaws.

I'm on board with Andrew Sarris, Andyfox, and Dominic on this one.
Peter666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2007, 10:59 PM   #112
Blarg
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chairmoistening Sector 7G
Posts: 53,529
Re: No Country For Old Men

That was a very good review. His note about the gun's action not working properly definitely sounds like it will irritate me when I see the movie.
Blarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 01:38 AM   #113
GTL
veteran
 
GTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,330
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
That was a very good review. His note about the gun's action not working properly definitely sounds like it will irritate me when I see the movie.
the fact that the reviewer is making fun of the gun's in the movie is very ironic. McCarthy is a gun nut who probably thinks about the weapons more than some of the minor characters. the guns in the movie seemed to be fairly close to the book. i'm certain the coen's didn't insert any "gimmicky" firearms.
GTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 03:48 AM   #114
General Tsao
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
General Tsao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 30,586
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
That was a very good review. His note about the gun's action not working properly definitely sounds like it will irritate me when I see the movie.

It might now that you know about it in advance...I don't know why you would read a review before seeing the movie, who cares what someone else thinks about it?. I didn't notice the gun thing though. And I disagree with part of his analysis, which I guess we'll talk about once you've seen it.
General Tsao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 06:13 PM   #115
Wynton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Wynton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Graphville
Posts: 15,188
Re: No Country For Old Men

Just saw this movie last night, and while I enjoyed it, I think it is one of the weaker Coen brothers movies. Maybe this is because I really love and admire virtually all of their movies. I just didn't find it as compelling and riveting as Fargo or many of their others.

One minor point I'd like clarified. My wife and I couldn't agree what happened to the wife's mother. Was she killed at the hotel?

edit: NM. I read the script and found the answer.

Last edited by Wynton; 12-02-2007 at 06:36 PM.
Wynton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2007, 09:30 PM   #116
Blarg
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chairmoistening Sector 7G
Posts: 53,529
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taso View Post
It might now that you know about it in advance...I don't know why you would read a review before seeing the movie, who cares what someone else thinks about it?. I didn't notice the gun thing though. And I disagree with part of his analysis, which I guess we'll talk about once you've seen it.
I find the question of why one would read a review of a movie before seeing it really strange. You read a review to see if you want to see the movie. The more you've read a particular reviewer, the better feel you have whether his reviews are likely to fit with the way you think and be of value to you.

A gun action not working properly seems at least as fair to note as not to note. Things that disrupt the feeling that things in the movie are really happening within that world can be jarring.
Blarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 02:52 AM   #117
GTL
veteran
 
GTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,330
Re: No Country For Old Men

the complaint about the shotgun action is uber nitty. when you watch the movie you'll see what i mean. the gun doesn't seem fake at all.
GTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 08:48 AM   #118
Wynton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Wynton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Graphville
Posts: 15,188
Re: No Country For Old Men

I'll just add two things. First, I think there were substantial problems with the logic and details of the action that go beyond mere "nittiness," and are far greater than stuff about the shotgun action. But that has nothing to do with my personal disappointment.

Reading this thread, I realize that the movie did not bring to life the full characterizations that were evidently present in the book. As a result, I just wasn't as interested in the people as I usually am in the Coen brother films. I suspect that the Tommy Lee Jones character was much richer in the book.

On the positive side, the Coens continue to be amazing in capturing local atmosphere and jargon. I can't think of any one else who is so at ease in creating such a diversity of worlds. The acting, staging and cinematography were all great as well. Yet, when you put it all together, it was less than compelling for me.
Wynton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 08:56 AM   #119
Keyser.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Keyser.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: thought highly of, in theory
Posts: 11,714
Re: No Country For Old Men

Sorry if this has already been posted...didn't see it anywhere.

The October 2007 issue of Esquire had a neat little article written by the Coen brothers. Apparently, when Josh Brolin showed up on the first day of shooting to play the part of Llewelyn Moss, the Coen Brothers realized someone made a huge casting mistake... they had intended to cast Jim Brolin, Josh's dad.

In order to fix this at the last minute, the Coen Brothers were forced to change the entire time period of the movie since Josh couldn't realistically play a Vietnam vet in the present day. So what was originally intended to be a movie set in present day, No Country For Old Men suddenly became a period piece. pretty crazy eh?
Keyser. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 09:46 AM   #120
Slow Play Ray
smot poker
 
Slow Play Ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Masshole
Posts: 4,510
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNOWBALL View Post
it takes place in exactly 1980. In the gas station scene he talks about how the 1958 quarter has been around for 22 years.
not to mention the mother's grave said 1903 - 1980 (or whatever year she was born)
Slow Play Ray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 12:33 PM   #121
Barcalounger
veteran
 
Barcalounger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,456
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser. View Post
Sorry if this has already been posted...didn't see it anywhere.

The October 2007 issue of Esquire had a neat little article written by the Coen brothers. Apparently, when Josh Brolin showed up on the first day of shooting to play the part of Llewelyn Moss, the Coen Brothers realized someone made a huge casting mistake... they had intended to cast Jim Brolin, Josh's dad.

In order to fix this at the last minute, the Coen Brothers were forced to change the entire time period of the movie since Josh couldn't realistically play a Vietnam vet in the present day. So what was originally intended to be a movie set in present day, No Country For Old Men suddenly became a period piece. pretty crazy eh?
I'm pretty sure the book is set in 1980, and they were pretty faithful to the book, so that story has to be BS.
Barcalounger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 12:39 PM   #122
Blarg
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chairmoistening Sector 7G
Posts: 53,529
Re: No Country For Old Men

Definitely hard to believe. Jim Brolin is a very wooden actor of little appeal now that he isn't young enough to be a superhunk anymore.
Blarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 12:44 PM   #123
Thug Bubbles
Pooh-Bah
 
Thug Bubbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,183
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarg View Post
Definitely hard to believe. Jim Brolin is a very wooden actor of little appeal now that he isn't young enough to be a superhunk anymore.

Plus the Coen brothers are very specific about their movies. I doubt they'd just go "wutevah" about something as important as a mistakenly cast lead. If it's true, it's quite a turn of luck for Brolin (Josh, not Jim).
Thug Bubbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 01:04 PM   #124
General Tsao
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
General Tsao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 30,586
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarg View Post
I find the question of why one would read a review of a movie before seeing it really strange. You read a review to see if you want to see the movie. The more you've read a particular reviewer, the better feel you have whether his reviews are likely to fit with the way you think and be of value to you.

A gun action not working properly seems at least as fair to note as not to note. Things that disrupt the feeling that things in the movie are really happening within that world can be jarring.

I don't know, I don't read reviews for this exact reason. Now, when you go to see it, you'll be looking for all the problems the reviewer said, "zomg, gun doesn't pop out shells." When I saw the movie, I thought, "omfg that gun is INSANE, TAKE COVER!!!!"

Best way to decide if you want to see a movie, in my opinion, go to IMDB, look at the rating it got there. Then, look at the director (Coen) look at the writers (Coen brothers) and look at the cast (Jones, Bardem, Rollin) and if you like Coen brother movies, you'll want to see it. Start figuring out which directors do "it" for you, see what other movies the writers have done, and if there are any good actors in it. I know after seeing Children of Men, I'm anxiously awaiting the next Alfonso Cuaron American film.
General Tsao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 01:36 PM   #125
Blarg
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chairmoistening Sector 7G
Posts: 53,529
Re: No Country For Old Men

Already done. I check reviews for particular movies. I don't assume that because I like a director, I will find his movies worth going to. But there are reviewers I've gotten enough of a feeling for that I feel fine getting their input before making a decision. A good example is Scorcese. I'm a lifelong fan, and I'm not as optimistic as I used to be that his movies will always be worth seeing on the big screen, or at all. Same with Ridley Scott, etc.

Perhaps some people forbid themselves from reading movie reviews before seeing a flick, but to me that's one of the whole points of having them. I wonder, contrarily, what is the point of reading a review after seeing a film. At that point I might want to see a detailed analysis, but not some five or ten paragraph lite discussion that is careful not to address anything that could turn into a spoiler.

Anyway, this is getting way off topic.
Blarg is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive