Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

The Lounge: Discussion+Review For discussion and debate about arts, movies+TV, music, reading+literature, style, fashion, history, culture and many more subjects

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2007, 03:08 AM   #76
Classic
formerly ClassicBob
 
Classic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Champions
Posts: 5,962
Re: A Big Disappointment

Moss lived close by. Chigurh seems like the type to at least troll through the neighboring towns until that transponder hit. But, I could possibly be nitty here.
Classic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2007, 04:47 AM   #77
GTL
veteran
 
GTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,330
Re: A Big Disappointment

Quote:
Moss lived close by. Chigurh seems like the type to at least troll through the neighboring towns until that transponder hit. But, I could possibly be nitty here.
Moss didn't live that close by. It is unclear whether Chigurh would have found Moss via the transponder if Moss hadn't gone back to the scene. Moss wasn't just going to sit in his trailer with the satchel on top of his bed. He was leaving no matter what.

However, this isn't that important. You don't need to be so rational here. The bottom line is, Moss' fate is sealed when Chigurh finds out his identity. Chigurh finds out Moss' identity because Moss went back to the scene to bring water to the Mexican. Both the Coen's and McCarthy are trying to make a thematic point here. The Coen's hinted at the importance of this in their Charlie Rose interview, and McCarthy highlights it in the book by comparing Moss to Bell (Bell left some of his men to die in WWII)

It doesn't matter that Chigurh might have found him even if he didn't go back. He did go back, and that is why he died.
GTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2007, 04:50 AM   #78
GTL
veteran
 
GTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,330
Re: Great film

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And no, Anton didn't not kill Moss. The Mexicans who found out where Moss was going killed him in a big shootout and stole the money. In the book, though, Chigurh ends up with the money, so it's safe to assume he caught up with the Mexicans.
I was under the impression Chigurh did get the money when he went back to the scene (they made it a point to mention the mexicans were in a rush and didn't have much time. Chigurgh's dime was on the floor near the vent; indicating he had opened the vent, where the money may or may not have been).
this is what i thought happened in both the book and the movie.
i was about to comment on this, and then you guys mentioned it. i'm just going to white out the rest of my post below.

at first, i wasn't sure what went on in the motel room at the crime scene. it was a little unclear where in the room anton was when jones saw the movement through the door.

i, too, thought maybe he was just behind the door the whole time. then, when jones enters the bathroom, they clearly focus on the window latch. at this point, i figured anton had escaped sometime after they showed him standing in the dark room and before jones cocked his gun and opened the door.

after they show the window latch, jones goes back to the living room, looks down, and sees the dime and open vent. this is where moss hid the money, and i believe they showed it to say that anton got the money and escaped out the bathroom window.

the stuff i list below i have no idea how people got:
- anton killed moss
- jones imagined seeing anton in the room
- anton wasn't in the room jones was looking into
- anton is like a ghost

the stuff i do feel similarly about:
- the car accident near the end, other than the similarities it - kind of - shows between moss and anton
- the tie-in between the opening monologue and the closing dream (i felt like i was supposed to know who the person was in the second dream, but i didn't)


and finally, did the office dude hire anton to find this money and subsequently hire woody when anton hadn't found it soon enough? that's what i got from the conversation that went something like this:

dude: i figured having more tools on the job i'd get the money faster.
anton: my philosophy is having the best tool for the job.

I've read the book twice, and I always get confused as to exactly who Chigurh is working for. I'm sure if I went back again I could sort it out. Next time I read it I will be doing that.

In the book, Chigurh returns the money to someone (I believe it is the drug sellers) and creates a business relationship of sorts with them.
GTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2007, 10:50 PM   #79
CharlieDontSurf
Blessed by Pope
 
CharlieDontSurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 14,811
Re: Great film

GTL what are your thoughts on this(taken from comments section on blog in regards to Jones final speech)


"One of the things I most love about the end of the film is the ambiguity of Tommy Lee Jones' final monologue. I'm not referring to the film suddenly ending and some not understanding the point the film is making. Instead, I'm referring to the final line of dialogue that Sheriff Ed Tom Bell tells his wife about his second dream.

"I continue to think long and hard about that final line. And I ask myself how I'm supposed to take that line coming from that man.

"Is the story of the second dream supposed to provide a ray of hope, a sense of eventual contentment of a full life lived to its fullest being finally rewarded? Or am I supposed to take the final line as an admission that this kind of hope has been completely, irrevocably taken away? That the good sheriff had that dream of a hopeful place there in the dark, a warm place made by his father waiting for him out there in all that dark and all that cold.

"And then I woke up".

"And that the events he's recently seen have removed any possibility of that hope coming to pass?
CharlieDontSurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2007, 11:52 PM   #80
SharpObject
journeyman
 
SharpObject's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 341
Re: Great film

Found the screenplay

http://www.youknow-forkids.com/nocountryforoldmen.txt

Enjoy!
SharpObject is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2007, 02:40 AM   #81
SNOWBALL
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
SNOWBALL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: United States of Udder Freedom
Posts: 9,314
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:

Yes..takes place in 70s.
it takes place in exactly 1980. In the gas station scene he talks about how the 1958 quarter has been around for 22 years.
SNOWBALL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2007, 11:33 AM   #82
Barcalounger
veteran
 
Barcalounger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,456
Re: No Country For Old Men

Great movie, great discussion. Not sure if we should still be whiting out spoilers this deep into a thread, but I will anyway just in case.

I picked up on most of what has been talked about so far. I thought the boldest choice in the entire movie was not showing the "protagonist" finally meet his end in the hotel at the hand of the Mexicans. That took real balls by the Cohen brothers and I think it'll be the downfall of this movie with the general public. In my theater it seemed that I was the only person who liked the movie, with a couple people even shouting "I want my money back" to the screen during the credits.

The scene in the hotel room with Tommy Lee Jones confused me because I also don't know where Anton was. But unlike most of you in the thread, I thought the window latch was "locked" and that focusing on it was to heighten the suspense that he couldn't have slipped out the back and must still be in the room.

The one other thing that I haven't seen discussed yet is that there wasn't much money in the satchel that everyone is killing each other over. In the scene where he finds the transponder by flipping through the stacks of money, everything below the first layer is a $1 bill instead of $100. The tragedy of all that death over a much smaller amount of money may have been too obvious to generate much discussion, but I thought I'd throw it out there since it seemed my wife missed it.
Barcalounger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2007, 01:18 PM   #83
erroneous
adept
 
erroneous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,186
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
The one other thing that I haven't seen discussed yet is that there wasn't much money in the satchel that everyone is killing each other over. In the scene where he finds the transponder by flipping through the stacks of money, everything below the first layer is a $1 bill instead of $100. The tragedy of all that death over a much smaller amount of money may have been too obvious to generate much discussion, but I thought I'd throw it out there since it seemed my wife missed it.
</font>

I was under the assumption that all of the bills inside the satchel were $100's, except for the one stack of $1 bills which were cut in the middle to hide the locator that Anton was using.
erroneous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2007, 05:01 PM   #84
Barcalounger
veteran
 
Barcalounger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,456
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
I was under the assumption that all of the bills inside the satchel were $100's, except for the one stack of $1 bills which were cut in the middle to hide the locator that Anton was using.
I thought he flipped through a couple other stacks that were like that, but I could be wrong. Darn, another excuse to go watch it again.
Barcalounger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2007, 05:45 PM   #85
Russ M.
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Russ M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cornette Face
Posts: 27,877
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
Quote:
I was under the assumption that all of the bills inside the satchel were $100's, except for the one stack of $1 bills which were cut in the middle to hide the locator that Anton was using.
I thought he flipped through a couple other stacks that were like that, but I could be wrong. Darn, another excuse to go watch it again.
He flipped through the top two stacks starting from the right until he got to the 4th stack from the end which had a bunch of ones and the transponder in between.
Russ M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 05:02 AM   #86
GTL
veteran
 
GTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,330
Re: Great film

Quote:
GTL what are your thoughts on this(taken from comments section on blog in regards to Jones final speech)


"One of the things I most love about the end of the film is the ambiguity of Tommy Lee Jones' final monologue. I'm not referring to the film suddenly ending and some not understanding the point the film is making. Instead, I'm referring to the final line of dialogue that Sheriff Ed Tom Bell tells his wife about his second dream.

"I continue to think long and hard about that final line. And I ask myself how I'm supposed to take that line coming from that man.

"Is the story of the second dream supposed to provide a ray of hope, a sense of eventual contentment of a full life lived to its fullest being finally rewarded? Or am I supposed to take the final line as an admission that this kind of hope has been completely, irrevocably taken away? That the good sheriff had that dream of a hopeful place there in the dark, a warm place made by his father waiting for him out there in all that dark and all that cold.

"And then I woke up".

"And that the events he's recently seen have removed any possibility of that hope coming to pass?
This one's a bit complicated of course, and i don't feel like organizing my thoughts and writing the essay that would be necessary. I got choked up when I read it, and I got choked up when I watched it. To me, I think it represents something very positive and is a statement about a common life experience. We might all live in a brutal world, but it has always been this way. All the people that we respect are probably just as bad as us, and we should be hopeful because of this, not despondent.
GTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:20 AM   #87
silver book
adept
 
silver book's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 779
Re: Great film

Quote:
GTL what are your thoughts on this(taken from comments section on blog in regards to Jones final speech)


"One of the things I most love about the end of the film is the ambiguity of Tommy Lee Jones' final monologue. I'm not referring to the film suddenly ending and some not understanding the point the film is making. Instead, I'm referring to the final line of dialogue that Sheriff Ed Tom Bell tells his wife about his second dream.

"I continue to think long and hard about that final line. And I ask myself how I'm supposed to take that line coming from that man.

"Is the story of the second dream supposed to provide a ray of hope, a sense of eventual contentment of a full life lived to its fullest being finally rewarded? Or am I supposed to take the final line as an admission that this kind of hope has been completely, irrevocably taken away? That the good sheriff had that dream of a hopeful place there in the dark, a warm place made by his father waiting for him out there in all that dark and all that cold.

"And then I woke up".

"And that the events he's recently seen have removed any possibility of that hope coming to pass?
In the beginning of the movie, Jones' character says,

I always knew you had to be willing to die to even do this job - not to be glorious. But I don't want to push my
chips forward and go out and meet something I don't understand. You can say it's my job to fight it but
I don't know what it is anymore. ...More than that, I don't want to know. A man would have to put his soul at hazard. ... He would have to say, okay, I'll be part of this world.

When talking about his dream at the end of the movie, the warm place he refers to seems to be the world he has fancied himself a part of, the olden days when times were better. He does not want to be a part of the new cruel world that doesn't make sense to him, and tries to escape by retiring. However, his wheelchair bound friend tells him that times haven't changed that much by telling him a story of a bunch of outlaws killing a sheriff. In his dream, Jones' character wakes up and realizes that is a part of this new, cruel word not the warm and cozy days of yester year.

Edit: In the screenplay I just read, it says the final line is " Out there up ahead", not " And then I woke up."
silver book is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2007, 08:26 PM   #88
GTL
veteran
 
GTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,330
Re: Great film

me and silver have pretty different interpretations of the dream. i don't see anything wrong with his. there are probably a ton of perfectly reasonable interpretations.
GTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 04:31 PM   #89
Mobilehoma
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2
Re: Great film

I loved this movie. It took me two times watching it to understand what happened to the money. Anton ends up with it, that is why he went to the hotel. Right before that scene with TLJ ends, there is a dime on the floor next to the vent. Anton knew Moss hid the money in the vent from the previous hotel so that's how he knew where to look.
Mobilehoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 05:36 PM   #90
AlexM
ignored
 
AlexM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hate cannot drive out hate
Posts: 20,655
Re: No Country For Old Men

This movie sucked.
AlexM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 06:44 PM   #91
Barcalounger
veteran
 
Barcalounger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,456
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
This movie sucked.
You make a compelling case.
Barcalounger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 06:45 PM   #92
ceczar
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 511
Re: No Country For Old Men

i'm assuming the book provides a more complete explanation of the parties involved in looking for the money. can someone who has read the book provide some of the background for some characters like the guy who hired woody harrelson, the guys who hired chigurh, how the mexicans tracked down the package before chigurh gunned them down in the hotel, etc.

would appreciate anything you have time to describe for us. thanks.
ceczar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 06:56 PM   #93
Enrique
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,883
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
i'm assuming the book provides a more complete explanation of the parties involved in looking for the money. can someone who has read the book provide some of the background for some characters like the guy who hired woody harrelson, the guys who hired chigurh, how the mexicans tracked down the package before chigurh gunned them down in the hotel, etc.

would appreciate anything you have time to describe for us. thanks.
How the Mexicans tracked it down doesn't need the book to clear up. They also had a device like Anton. He complains about it "you gave them one too!". It seems like the person that hired Anton was the same guy that hired Woody Harrelson.
Enrique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 07:01 PM   #94
ceczar
grinder
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 511
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
How the Mexicans tracked it down doesn't need the book to clear up. They also had a device like Anton. He complains about it "you gave them one too!". It seems like the person that hired Anton was the same guy that hired Woody Harrelson.
it did seem that way, but i'd like a little confirmation about what that actual relationship was. is it definite that the 2 guys chigurh killed at the drug deal site were working with the guy who hired harrelson? were the mexicans also hired by that same person? was the guy behind the desk part of the organization that was buying the drugs or selling the drugs?

less interested in speculation by people who have only seen the movie, because i can do that myself, but background information from the book that was left out of the movie.
ceczar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 07:56 PM   #95
Enrique
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,883
Re: No Country For Old Men

The two guys Chigurh killed at the drug deal weren't necessarily working with the guy who hired harrelson, but he gave them the device, which could have been done at a cost (selling it).
Anyway, in this thread people have commented on those questions you asked, in particular with respect to the person that hired harrelson. GTL commented on it and if I recall correctly, he said the book wasn't very explicit about that guy.
Enrique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 09:00 PM   #96
GTL
veteran
 
GTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,330
Re: No Country For Old Men

Quote:
The two guys Chigurh killed at the drug deal weren't necessarily working with the guy who hired harrelson, but he gave them the device, which could have been done at a cost (selling it).
Anyway, in this thread people have commented on those questions you asked, in particular with respect to the person that hired harrelson. GTL commented on it and if I recall correctly, he said the book wasn't very explicit about that guy.
i'm pretty sure that you can figure out exactly who everyone is working for with the book. some of it is vague and would require you to reread certain parts a bunch of times.
GTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 11:53 PM   #97
Mobilehoma
stranger
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2
Re: No Country For Old Men

when he goes to kill the guy in the office, the other guy tells him he gave the mexicans a second transponder.

the reason he hired woody harrelson was because Chigurh killed 5 of his men (2 in desert, and 3 mexicans in hotel) and he thought he was a loose cannon so he brought in woody but Chigurh took him out.

they guy behind the desk was most likely just a middle man for whoever the boss was.
Mobilehoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 02:27 AM   #98
Mr_Mxyztplk
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,541
Re: No Country For Old Men

I'am going out on a limb, and predicting an academy award for best movie.
Mr_Mxyztplk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 03:37 AM   #99
blackize
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
blackize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 10,521
Re: No Country For Old Men

The mexicans aren't working for Stephen Root's character, they're the other aggrieved party in the [censored] drug deal. They are out both the money and the drugs and as a gesture of good faith they are given another transponder.
blackize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2007, 04:32 PM   #100
Miamipuck
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Getting Sodomized by Frist
Posts: 947
Re: No Country For Old Men

A few things:

This was the best movie I have seen this year. I should say it is in top movies I have seen in the theater. There was a definite wow factor with it, at least for me there was.

In the end I thought it possible, not likely, that Anton was in the other motel room. After all, Moss was smart enough to use a different room the first time and it was not altogether clear if that was his room or the woman with the beer's room. Who knows because it did not look possible for Anton to hide anywhere in that room. I am going to rewatch this movie to see it was at all possible for him to be in another room.

Did anyone else catch the 10 spot when he was flipping through the bundles of cash? He flipped through the bundles and one had a 10 spot. Then he started flipping through the next that had all the singles. No big deal, just thought it funny.

The coin flip thing was weird. It I think gave Anton a little bit of conscience without wrecking his code. He is so nuts that he can not out right let people go. Especially in the end with the wife. He realizes that killing her has no point but he can not let her go............. flip a coin. I guess that is his way of showing mercy and not wrecking his code. For some odd reason that coin flip thing really fascinated me. It was a great study into human behavior.
I think I can watch the scene with the old guy in the gas station a 1000 times over and not get sick of it.
Miamipuck is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive