watched Upstream Color. It was pretty interesting. I liked it a lot though I'm not quite exactly sure what was going on at all times. Looking forward to watching it again.

Need to watch this before finalizing my 2013 list. Carruth is the man.

I'm pretty much with you here. Mrs. Draftdodger loved it as did most everyone in the theater. Bale was terrific; everyone else should go to overactors anonymous, especially Ms. Adams. But maybe she couldn't figure out what her character was doing in the film; neither could I.

But the film didn't make me angry, more disappointed. There was no focus to the film, nothing to grab onto. Very derivative of Scorsese, reminded me of Goodfellas, without being as compelling, which is, I suppose, why Mr. De Niro made an appearance.

I saw this early on in the theatre just because I had liked In Bruges (and the cast obviously). I liked it, didn't think it was great or anything, but definitely enjoyable. Rockwell's great. Watch Moon if you haven't, and Confessions of a Dangerous Mind

Rockwell was also great in Matchstick Men.

Very good super low budget film.

I love IAWL, f the haters.

Thanks for reminding me to throw It's a Bundyful Life on! So great. Kinison kills it.

6 times!

upstream color is like a mission statement for what's possible in movies. or maybe more like a mission to the edges of space and time. my theory is that SC figured out how to actually time travel when he made primer, and he came back to show us this movie because without it humanity is DOOMED

I watched The Master this weekend (with Joaquin Phoenix). What a bunch of nonsense. so pretentious. Reminds me of how I felt about Eyes Wide Shut. It really makes me suspect these directors are just making it up as they go. Both films had beautiful cinematography. But what was the point? Hoffman's performance was better than Phoenix who mumbled his way through the film.

If you liked either The Master or Eyes Wide Shut I would be curious to know why and if you think the directors had a firm grasp of their stories, from start to finish, before they started filming.

Both are among my favorite films of their years. Narrative is but one, sometimes, small part of a film. Film is not literature, first and foremost it's a visual medium.

This was some really well thought-out stuff. I definitely find myself guilty of criticizing movies for things that I don't like, rather than analyzing whether or not something's good. I guess that's why I couldn't ever be a movie critic, bc I have a hard time looking at something objectively...because there are things that I just don't like watching, whether it be more real or not.

I liked your point on smugness/brutal honesty. It's sometimes hard for ppl to "inform" others of something that they think they know without sounding smug or condescending about it. On top of that, they are always more smug about the delivery when they themselves are unsure of the validity of what it is they are trying to prove. Let alone when they are using it to prop up their own self-worth; "look at what I know" etc. I think most ppl have been guilty of this kind of stuff, particularly in their 20's, and it's hard to fault his character for that, and even if his delivery is bad, so are a lot of people's. Again, it seems more like a criticism of the character's personality than it is of the movie itself.

I enjoyed reading the discourse in this thread on the trilogy, and I randomly came across this link today, thought I'd share

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollyw...efore-midnight

Sam Rockwell is an absolutely fantastic actor. He is absolutely elite as a performer yet most people don't even know who he is as he rarely get's the leading performance parts, not stereotypically good looking enough I guess. My favourite performance of his is in Moon. A superb film if you haven't seen it yet btw.

The Master is a beautiful yet creepy film with a few astonishingly good performances. Thematic elements it explores include the mentality of a cult, cult of personality, psychology involved in post traumatic stress syndrome amongst others.

It does not have an easy plot or narrative to follow and it is definitely not everyone's cup of tea for this reason.

Phoenix mumbling, not sure why you didn't like his performance based on that? The character mumbled for a reason. This was a deeply traumatised person, psychologically damaged, prone to bouts of violence. It was an amazing performance and imo deserved the best actor oscar (not that he could ever have won it).

Yes, he absolutely had an extremely full grasp of the story from start to finish. Absolutely. There is no a single aspect it of it that makes me think he was making it up as he went along. To me the whole film was bringing us as a viewer, into the world of the cult and everything that entailed in quite a visceral way. It was a deeply unsettling experience.

Now I want to hear Katy's take on Upstream Color.

I'd like to hear Katy's take on Nymphomaniac.

I hated both of them but in the Masters defense I did fall asleep for about 45 minutes in the middle so maybe that was the good part. I however have no desire to ever go back to see what I missed

Sorry for the snarky comment, but the idea that Stanley Kubrick (the most strategic, intellectually-motivated, exacting filmmaker of all time) didn't have a firm grasp on a story that took him 30 years to realize (and over a year to shoot) is pretty lol.

To explain why is probably beyond my critical writing abilities, but just because you didn't connect with the material doesn't mean Kubrick or PT Anderson failed as filmmakers. As Clovis mentioned: both films are not motivated by traditional narrative and more interested in exploring ideas, concepts and characters on a cinematic, subversive and often times visceral level. That said, if you don't feel like these films make "points" about religion, free will, mind control, madness, depression, loneliness, primal instincts, intellectualism, sex, love, marriage, lust, jealousy, hidden desires, perversions, ego, and/or monogamy then I'm not sure anything you read here will change that.

You're talking about two of the greatest filmmakers of all time. These guys definitely know what they're doing.

Which other of Kubrick's films have you watched? Did you notice references to his other films in EWS?

This is crap. I just went and listened to a Q&A with Spike Jonze and the thing he discussed most was the narrative and the importance of character and plot in film BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT MAKES YOUR PRETTY PICTURES MEAN ANYTHING AT ALL. Film as pure visual medium has no value in and of itself.

And that is why I thoroughly dislike Upstream Color. No way anyone talks about that movie again in a year's time.

F troll

I tend to agree with you but that's just, like, our opinion man.

You're correct that narrative is essential to film but wrong in saying it cannot be achieved by image alone.

You are aware of silent film, yes?

Narrative does not mean dialog, so the silent film example is a bad one.

Narrative is not necessary in film. It is necessary for a film to be widely watched, however.

And Upstream Color has an amazing story, characters and narrative.

I never said it did?

And I can only assume you're being very literal when you say narrative isn't necessary in film? Like, yes, you can capture on film a sequence without narrative. But you cannot film an actual story without narrative being involved.

Watched Upstream Color again today and was ugly crying by the end. That's totally normal, right? What a phenomenal film. It's unfortunate it will fly under the radar this year and for the future. It's going into my Top 10 of 2013 list and will also make my "Ten Films You Didn't See in 2013" list.