Movies: Talk About What You've Seen Lately--Part 3 - Page 1162 - The Lounge Discussion and Review on Literature, Arts, Culture

I tried watching it on home video 30 years ago and I couldn't get to what I imagine was the more interesting 2nd half, as I kept falling asleep during the first half. I know the special effects were top of the line for the time, and I imagine they look good even now on the big screen, but I still don't think a movie with no real story for the first hour can be the greatest anything in my book.

There's a perfectly logical through-story for the whole movie. Just because you don't see one, doesn't mean it's not there.

08-25-2018 , 02:19 PM

#29027

diebitter

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Just watch opening scenes of History of the World Part 1

08-25-2018 , 02:22 PM

#29028

Dominic

Tripod

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 74,272

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cole

Well, I have seen the apes a few times in theaters.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovis8

Totally agree John. It’s a much better film if you skip the apes.

What?? I love the apes!

08-25-2018 , 02:27 PM

#29029

John Cole

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 18,197

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic

What?? I love the apes!

It's an intriguing beginning the first couple times you see it. I can't imagine the movie without it, but I don't need to watch it again--unless I see it in IMAX.

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08-25-2018 , 02:29 PM

#29030

MSchu18

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wait till you hear it Dom... the theaters are literally blasting the heck out of the speakers on this one.

get there early so you dont miss the prologue. and dont worry about the intermission. it's at least 10 minutes or so (maybe a little longer), but the movie will eventually com back on.

the dawn of man is awesome!

sure, the length of the lower leg doesn't look like a modern Ape, and you can see some human qualities to the eyes in some of the close ups, but this sequence is great.

besides, they are primitive man and not primitive gorillas, monkeys or chimpanzees.

Last edited by MSchu18; 08-25-2018 at 02:34 PM.

08-25-2018 , 02:45 PM

#29031

Cranberry Tea

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The shot of the jaguar attacking that one monkey was legitimately terrifying on the big screen. Also love that jolt of immediately being thrown into the future after you’ve just gotten used to being in the monkey world for a while.

I do think the movie does a poor job of giving he viewer enough info work out some of what’s going on with HAL unless you’ve read the book, but then there’s a certain fun in trying to come up with your own answers.

08-25-2018 , 03:25 PM

#29032

chillrob

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What kind of story is in watching a space station float around?

08-25-2018 , 04:42 PM

#29033

Iancw1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranberry Tea

A couple things I noticed on this view:

1. the number of shots showing the apes cowering overnight as the jaguar growled in the surrounds seemed almost comically too many

2. maybe you shouldn’t trust the crew psychology reports to the same computer that has control over all the entire ship and has the greatest possible enhusiasm for the mission’s success

08-25-2018 , 06:36 PM

#29034

BustoRhymes

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranberry Tea

For those like me who never looked too deeply into the explanation for what's really going with HAL, I loved this discussion.

Quote:

The monolith had nothing to do with the Hal 9000 trying to kill the crew, he really was malfunctioning, but it wasn't really Hal's fault.

The 9000 series computers' primary programming, which was hard-wired into them and cannot be changed, is the accurate processing of information, without distortion or mistakes. The problem stems from the fact that for the Discovery Mission, Hal was programmed with instructions that conflicted with this primary programming, namely to keep the real reason for the mission, studying the monolith at Jupiter, secret from Dave Bowman and Frank Poole, as the monoliths were classified by the U.S. Govt. and Dave and Frank didn't have the clearance to know. Dave and Frank's job was the get the Discovery to Jupiter, then they would swap places with the three men in hibernation who did know the real reason and would be studying the monolith while Dave and Frank would be put into hibernation while this was going on, then swap places with the three men again and pilot the Discovery back to Earth once the study was over with, blissfully unware of the monolith.

Anyway, getting back to Hal, if I might paraphrase Dr. Chandra, Hal's Creator, he was told to lie to Dave and Frank by people who find it very easy to lie (the govt.), but Hal literally didn't know how to. It's a direct violation of his primary programming, the accurate processing of information, and in being made to lie, it made him unstable. I believe the in-universe term is an H. Mobius Loop, but in practical terms Hal became a paranoid schizophrenic. He was trapped between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, his hardwired programming to be accurate and not make any mistakes, on the other, his orders to lie to Dave and Frank. Hal, being a computer, couldn't take a third option, he literally had no choice but to try and obey both sets of instructions, but logically he could not, so it just aggravated the underlying problem even more.

The A.E. 35 antenna unit "failure" was Hal trying to solve the problem and restore himself to normal functioning or something close to it, as the mission instructions didn't allow him to shut down or let himself go kaput, he had to keep running and complete the mission at all costs. The impetus to lie was coming from Mission Control, so if the ship couldn't talk to Mission Control, so much the better. As for Dave and Frank? Well if they were gone, Hal wouldn't have to lie to them, would he?

Hal does in fact skirt his security obligations and try to clue Dave into what's going on by telling him of his own concerns about the tight security and the "rumors" of something being dug up on the Moon (the 1st monolith), for if Dave and by extension Frank figured it all out, Hal's dilemma would've been solved. In fact, killing them wasn't really in the cards until Hal read their lips as they talked about the possibility of disconnecting him.

As for the three men in Hibernation that Hal killed while Dave is off trying (in vain) to save Frank, well they were a part of the secret, so killing them meant Hal wouldn't have to lie to anybody why they were really in hibernation (the in-universe excuse was that it was to save on supplies and oxygen) and on the ship, though I could suppose that they were merely collateral damage as Hal was going off the rails.

Hal wasn't behaving out of malice or being "evil", he was merely trying to cope with the conflicting instructions as well as trying to stay alive, as he equated being disconnected with death, for he had never been to sleep either, and didn't know that one can wake up from being asleep.

The entire situation was the result of the U.S. Govt. trying to cover its own butt and keep the monoliths under wraps. If Dave and Frank had been read-in from the get go and Hal wouldn't have been given the instructions which violated his core programming, the entire mission would've gone off without a hitch, but then there would've been no movie and no novel.

In both the novel and the film of the sequel, 2010, the conflicting instructions and all memories of what Hal did in 2001 were removed by Dr. Chandra, Hal's creator, and he functioned perfectly, was perfectly trustworthy and didn't try to kill anybody (though the crew had their doubts, understandably).

08-25-2018 , 07:09 PM

#29035

Phat Mack

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic

What?? I love the apes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cole

It's an intriguing beginning the first couple times you see it. I can't imagine the movie without it, but I don't need to watch it again--unless I see it in IMAX.

Apes clearly the best part. Saying that you don't watch the apes is tantamount to saying that you buy Playboy and only read the articles. It's hard to tell whether you are missing the point, or only pretending to miss the point.

And talk about great acting -- let's see you guys do a somersault in a monkey costume!

08-25-2018 , 07:23 PM

#29036

John Cole

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BustoRhymes

For those like me who never looked too deeply into the explanation for what's really going with HAL, I loved this discussion.

That's excellent. Any great commentary on the apes?

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08-25-2018 , 08:54 PM

#29037

Iancw1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cole

That's excellent. Any great commentary on the apes?

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There is a running theme of territoriality, first with apes vs apes over watering hole, then Russians vs Americans over Clavius discovery, then HAL vs astronauts over Discovery/who’s running this show.

Appearance of monolith and intelligent tool usage strongly correlated to murder (Moonwatcher ape vs rival leader ape). Then HAL (whose faceplate has monolith-like dimensions), is created to duplicate/mimic all the activities of the human brain.

But the activities of the human brain include suspicion, pride, paranoia, jealousy, and homicidal tendencies, as already demonstrated from the beginning of the film.

Last edited by Iancw1; 08-25-2018 at 08:57 PM. Reason: ok, not great, but my quick and dirty defense of ape theme

08-25-2018 , 09:13 PM

#29038

Cranberry Tea

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Phat Mack

And talk about great acting -- let's see you guys do a somersault in a monkey costume!

That dude was the Andy Serkis of his day!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iancw1

But the activities of the human brain include suspicion, pride, paranoia, jealousy, and homicidal tendencies, as already demonstrated from the beginning of the film.

One way to interpret what's going on is that HAL is suffering from severe cognitive dissonance and is becoming delusional due to the stress. HAL functions so much like a human brain that it is capable of developing mental health issues.

Last edited by Cranberry Tea; 08-25-2018 at 09:25 PM.

08-25-2018 , 09:22 PM

#29039

Dominic

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Just got back....loved it. At the very end, my GF gave me a "WTF was that glance" lol. Really cool seeing it on the big screen.

2010 explains it all....and I love that movie - Roy Scheider, John Lithgow, Bob Balaban, and Helen Mirren...just a wonderful story with incredible visuals by Peter Hyams. So underrated.

08-25-2018 , 09:23 PM

#29040

Dominic

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Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 74,272

One question, tho...Why does Dave get into the pod without his helmet in the first place...?

08-25-2018 , 10:04 PM

#29041

John Cole

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Iancw1

Oh, I get it, and you do a nice job of setting forth the connections. But I still plan on skipping the opening when I watch it at home.

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08-25-2018 , 10:17 PM

#29042

Cranberry Tea

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic

One question, tho...Why does Dave get into the pod without his helmet in the first place...?

Human error. He was under stress and also in a rush after he saw his buddy had an accident. But the real question is WHERE DID THE GREEN HELMET COME FROM?

08-25-2018 , 10:21 PM

#29043

Iancw1

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Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominic

One question, tho...Why does Dave get into the pod without his helmet in the first place...?

Panic/hurry, my best guess.

My question is, why do Dave and Frank rotate the pod *again* after climbing in, hence revealing themselves to HAL’s camera?

(I know, they don’t know HAL can read lips, but still.)

Answer: same reason in Stagecoach chase that Geronimo doesn’t just shoot one of the horses: no movie without it!

08-25-2018 , 10:32 PM

#29044

BustoRhymes

Grand Elf

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 26,670

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iancw1

Well, you'd still have a really long intro sequence with apes. That's still kind of a movie

08-25-2018 , 10:41 PM

#29045

Bluegrassplayer

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I never had a problem with the monkies, it was the space travel scene which got me.

08-26-2018 , 06:54 AM

#29046

karamazonk

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Watching a bunch of movies on HBO while I have it during this season of Hard Knocks.

Guess I'm in the minority but I didn't think It (2017) was all that great. Decent enough, but not too scary and felt like a paint by numbers that somehow felt both too long and too short. FWIW I both read the book (granted, when I was 13) and saw the miniseries a couple times (also when I was a teen), so I knew what to expect.

Enjoyed Logan more, although it was definitely a bit too long. I was shocked at how much I enjoyed The Wolverine and ended up liking this one quite a bit, too.

Have already seen Blade Runner 2049 three times and own the bluray, so I won't be watching that. Continue to think this movie was critically under discussed / underappreciated and don't really understand why. Also kind of sad that it wasn't nearly as enjoyable on my TV as opposed to the big screen, where the speakers and giant screen really amplified its atmosphere.

Watching Dunkirk and Three Billboards some time soon.

08-26-2018 , 09:59 AM

#29047

MSchu18

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Quote:

Originally Posted by karamazonk

Blade Runner 2049... Continue to think this movie was critically under discussed / underappreciated and don't really understand why. Also kind of sad that it wasn't nearly as enjoyable on my TV as opposed to the big screen, where the speakers and giant screen really amplified its atmosphere...

You need to step up your game...

08-26-2018 , 11:29 AM

#29048

Dominic

Tripod

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 74,272

Quote:

Originally Posted by karamazonk

Have already seen Blade Runner 2049 three times and own the bluray, so I won't be watching that. Continue to think this movie was critically under discussed / underappreciated and don't really understand why. Also kind of sad that it wasn't nearly as enjoyable on my TV as opposed to the big screen, where the speakers and giant screen really amplified its atmosphere.

Watching Dunkirk and Three Billboards some time soon.

It’s just fantastic. Probably my favorite film of the past 5 years. It’s brilliant.

Best article I’ve read about 2049.