Jesus lol

You at a big firm?

Just caught up on the last few pages of this thread.

JD/LLMs represent!

I cannot impress upon this thread enough how much harder teaching middle school in an innercity school was than biglaw.

My wife teaches elementary in a school that's definitely not inner city. Suspension rate at her school (per greatschools.org) is sub 1%.

In fairness to your wife, despite working in big law myself, I NEVER work (nor am asked to) for 6 straight hours without multiple breaks, and usually, as many as I want to take.

Id be more sympathetic to that if she didn’t go to SoHo two or three times a week to shop.

It takes more than an hour to get to soho from where we live.

any of the plaintiffs attorneys have any tips for the best books for trial? i have my first one in about 2 weeks that i will actually be doing a lot of the questioning and strategy. starting to get pretty nervous as I still have a long way to go on feeling comfortable arguing motions and depo questioning. i like my job because there is a ridiculous amount of depo and trial opportunities but I need help to not embarrass myself. we have 5 people at the office and 4 trials in the last month so everyone has been busy and i've been dealing with jury instructions, witness list, exhibits, bla bla bla for this one on my own. worried about looking like an idiot. not the strongest case but i would like to do a pretty good job. i've read the david ball reptile book and the book from that trial lawyer david berg but I still don't really know what to expect. i feel like once youre at trial it's a whole different beast and lot of variance. my boss is a great trial lawyer but can't write a motion to save his life and is not the brightest bulb. i know a lot of attorneys who are way smarter than him but can't connect with the jury.

So New York passed sweeping bail and discovery reform. Essentially, I no longer have to do a bail application anymore because most crimes are no longer cash bail qualifying. Essentially all misdemeanors and non-violation felonies Defendant's get ROR (there are exceptions for DV cases and misdemeanor sex crimes). But the highest level drug felonies are all now ROR.

There are some fear mongering stories in the news about how someone who was released and then committing another crime, but no one talks about how in 2017 51% of all charges filed in NYC ended in some type of dismissal.

What really makes my life easier is discovery reform. Now within 15 days of arraignment the prosecutor has to turn over all of its evidence in the case. Back in the old days, trial in NY was basically trial by ambush. Would not know who the witnesses are until they were called and started testifying.

The People also can't be ready for trial for speedy trial purposes until they certify that they have complied with their discovery obligation.

This has lead to receive better offers, dispose of cases more quickly, and allow my clients to make a fully informed decision prior to pleading guilty.

Interesting, thanks for sharing!

Interesting. I thought maybe you were saying there are more clients now. You would think they would be less arrests with all this so volume would go down.

I’m sure police practice will take a minute to adapt (if it does at all).

Before you read my take, just know: I'm a Plaintiff's attorney. Only been practicing for a few years and I'm still under 30. I've almost a dozen cases to jury verdict though (all PI). I run my own firm and when I got out, I started trying shitty chiro/PT treatment only MVA's for bigger firms who didnt want to be bothered with it. Since then, I just hung a 220k verdict on a trucking company a few weeks ago for an elderly client where everyone universally said I couldn't get above 100k.

I've never read a single book on trial strategy. I read alot of books on "how to do depos", "how to do procedure xyz", etc. but I've never read ball or berg or any of the other classics fwiw. I do plan on doing it, but I just get so busy with work and I think experience is the best teacher.

I didn't have any other trial books but I found a free copy of a book titled something like, "My first trial" or something from AAJ trial college. I'll look if I still have it here somewhere. I also just coldcalled a big attorney in my town and took him to lunch for advice. You seem like you're in a firm, so maybe a partner can help or something? I'm a solo guy, so I don't know how that will all work at your place.


Again, I don't have the resume others in this thread might, but for my age/exp, I've done a decent chunk of jury work. Fwiw, these are all personal injury cases as well, so results my vary for other law:

Do the obvious like review the pleadings, depos, etc.

I like to have a masterlist for each witness.

So, maybe my first witness is the Officer at the crash. Quick list, 1 page, of just general direct exam sketch and then a 1 page corresponding exhibit list.

Top of masterlist has a picture of the witness (can't get confused) and a 1 sentence mission statement. The MS is just what do we want this witness to do for us. So, for the police it might be like, "Prove D drove carelessly"

The direct exam masterlist is like big themes. Never more than 1 page either. (Introduction, Background, Day of accident, course of treatment) Something like that.

Masterlist for exhibits as well with a list of all the exhibits for that witness. So, as I was doing a direct, I'd just cross off the exhibit as it got used. That acts as a backstop for your direct, in case you miss something and keeps you on track, bc its in order on the exhibit list. Then, before direct is over, just quickly make sure you got each exhibit in for that witness.

For example,

"Police Officer JoeBlow"
*prove D drove carelessly*

*Direct exam master list*
Background
Experience,
Day in question,
Final thoughts-

*Exhibit list*
1. Certificates of training
2. Accident report
3. Follow up report at office


Its really hard to miss something bc you have two lists there essentially as a backstop. So, if you missed item 2 on exhibit, you would know "oh ****, I have to bring up accident report", and just do it at the end. Plus, you ever get stuck/confused/mind blank, look at the list and remind yourself, "Why is this guy/girl hear to talk today?" Helps you focus and not ask Q's that lead nowhere.

I did the same for cross, just big themes on a masterlist for each D defendant. I went C/D method too, meaning confirm/destroy. Hit them with facts confirming my story and then destroy their credibility with impeachment facts. Have a cross exhibit list to make sure you get everything too. I will admit, I'm not the best cross exam attorney imo. I think cross, above all else, is an art form and it just takes a long time to hone the skills of timing and touch. I'm good, but I've definitely run into people way better than me.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of writing out questions for direct or cross. I think it feels so robotic and fake. It feels like you're reading from a script bc thats exactly what you're doing. Juries dont like it imo.

Granted, that is a **** ton of work to do. But, once you've done it once, it gets easier. However, that first trial is just brutal anxiety and stress, so I thought being overprepared helped calm the nerves slightly.


Also, and this is completely a personal thing, so feel free to disregard....

In my state, jury instructions agreed on like 60 days prior to trial. Sounds like yours are agreed on already. So, I read the jury instructions to some random people. Wife, friend, parents, etc. I asked them what do they think those instructions mean? After, I gave them a 30 second synopsis of the case, and then ask them what do they think they would need to do as a juror? They're answer immediately changed lol.

At first, they would repeat the instructions back to me somewhat. After quick synopsis (MVA, P claims this injured, D says prior accident, econ is XX, etc.), they would all say they needed to "decide the truth", "find out what happened", or some other variant of that type of thinking.

That made me realize that jury instructions were dumb. Jury don't care about that stuff, only lawyers do. They want to know what happened and "find the truth". So, I tailored my entire strategy to "find the truth".

I repeated that phrase over and over and over. I printed it out and put it in big bold letters at top of my trial folder. Anytime I would get stuck in trial, or have to think about what to do next, just come back to "find the truth" and help the jury find the truth about what happened that day.

I know that probably sounds like some mystical bullshit self help class garbage but it really did help me. I had an overall theme for the case, obviously, but the tool to drive home the theme was "find the truth". You talk to the jury as if they're in this grand quest for truth with you and you're their Virgil navigating them.

Granted, I know that sounds like complete hippy nonsense, but it really helped me realize that once the jury sits, nothing else matters. The pleadings, motions, depos, etc. are all just deciding how the chessboard will be set. The jury is the one who decides the winner, so you have to drop some of the law arguing/both sides mentality and act like a leader. You're pretty much leading a group of 12 to give you what you want.

Anyways, I know this is rambling. I hope it helps. Just know that you can do it. Only three people in that courtroom know the law. You, OC (maybe), and the Judge. The Judge can't do much other than umpire, so its just you and OC. If you get stuck, just improvise. You know more than you think you know.

I decided to dip my toes in matrimonial litigation. People can be really petty. I have a client who wants me to wait until tomorrow (valentines day) to file a divorce action even though the paperwork has been ready since Monday.

Get out before it's too late. In the middle of my first divorce and I'm never doing another one. They don't even have anything to fight over but it's still probably going to trial.

I'm hearing of some lawyers doing it for $75/hr around here but that's unconfirmed. The lower level criminal defense work has dried up and some of them have moved to this and pushed prices down.

The other day one of my coworkers (non lawyer, at my federal agency) asked why I don't do family law, you can bill so much for it etc. I said yeah it gets super dramatic and people fight about every little thing, and you have to bill for that time arguing about dumb stuff. He said yeah so what, just send them a bill? I said a lot of people don't like paying bills.

He just couldn't get that, and why it's not a cash cow. To be fair, every indication is that he's the kind of guy that would always pay a bill and isn't hurting for money.

thanks for the advice bro. i ended up just kind of relying on my knowledge of the case as the grunt who did 95% of discovery. won my first jury trial a couple weeks ago. i use "my" loosely considering i didn't do a whole lot but still got a few examinations in and was happy with the performance. watching my boss do his thing was great considering he didn't really know **** about the case until like 2 days before trial. he knows how to handle these cases thats for sure.

120k in compensatory and 600k in punitives. didn't have lost wages and it was a constructive discharge-I thought we were dogs to win anything, let alone punitives. was pretty eye opening talking to the jurors afterwards and how much it seemed to come down to they just didn't like the defendant. i have always focused big time on jury instructions from the very beginning of every case. i think they help a lot to focus the theory of the case but this trial definitely made me think juries will find a way to punish a defendant they don't like (ofc wtf do i know-nothing-but they def didn't say one word about any of the legal issues in the case afterwards. a lot of "hated how the defense attorneys objected to everything") defense must have learned their lesson because we got a 350k settlement v the same defendant in a trial that was set to go on Monday. i don't think i will be in this job for more than another year because the pay is bad and the caseload is crazy but the amount of depo and courtroom experience i get every week is really helping me overcome imposter syndrome somewhat which is nice. kind of ****ed around my first couple years out of law school and failed miserably so the professional success for the first time in my life is real good

of course our garbage legislature is trying to pass all sorts of hideous bills that would make it impossible to really practice plaintiff's side employment law going forward so i'm worried i need to branch out and learn some other **** like family law or crim law. i don't have time to take panel cases right now with my caseload but i really need to at some point. i really don't want to do family law as i'm just not particularly good at empathizing with clients who bring so much drama like 95% of those cases...but it is consistent money i hear. maybe i'll learn some workers comp that seems fairly easy albeit incredibly boring to me

There’s a proposal in the legislature here to tax professional services like sales tax, 5%.

Lawyers are specifically mentioned. I don’t even know how you calculate this in a personal injury case for example. They say to they want to fund something called the Kirwin commission which in part wants to pay teachers six figures. Luckily the governor has common sense and has basically said over my dead body.

How is everyone doing with the latest events? Pretty happy to have my govt job. NY foks?

Work is sloooooowwwww out here in LA.

My practice is slow too, some layoffs and pay cuts for the layers yikes.

I was thinking, I wonder what it would be like if Party Poker was still around like back in the day.

I would probably still be playing and thinking about quitting.

Playing online was just pretty easy money that enabled me to do a lot of other things without impacting my day-to-day life.

Post Black Friday, I had to play a lot of live for obvious reasons. I actually made more money playing live, for a short time before moving onto trading full time (I was already trading). But very early on I hated living around degens 24/7. Not that I disliked the people, but how mentally difficult it was for me to fight the urge to turn into a life fish myself. That's why I jumped at the opportunity to move into trading and then eventually just a "normal" job. JD was just the most viable way for me to reset my career.

So I was thinking more along the lines of right now everyone is stuck at home. I was thinking it would be crazy bananas all day right now since everyone is bored. In much of the world too.

But, everyone is worried about a recession, so maybe they would be holding on to their money. Maybe.

What a weird time that was. Can’t say I really miss it though, even with the money available. Incredibly exciting, but completely unhealthy.

My business work has slowed down, litigation has grinded to a halt, and new client calls have gone way down, but luckily for me I represent several landlords and municipalities, and obviously that work has increased significantly what with absolutely no one knowing what the **** is going on.