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Old 12-21-2017, 03:46 PM   #13176
maddog876
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Re: Law School

Yes. Then spend the remainder of the last semester doing full-time pro bono work in my school's clinic. It's a relatively new New York State program.
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Old 12-21-2017, 05:06 PM   #13177
CohibaBehike
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Re: Law School

Oye, making you start before Christmas sorta brutal. My brother started the day after Christmas and finished like 97% of Barbri.

I'm applying for the PBS program in April. Not as popular at my new school as it was at my old school. Last year my current school only had 3 people do it - which is kind of ridiculous it really is a no brainer.
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Old 12-22-2017, 08:58 AM   #13178
xdeuceswild81xx
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Re: Law School

MD- Gl. Put in the time, and you'll be fine. I really liked Themis and highly recommend it to everyone. Hit that 75% completion benchmark and you're pass rate is like 90%+ in almost every state besides CA, if I remember right. If it all works out, I think you'll be happy you did it instead of wasting time on random 2nd semester 3L classes imo.

December Update-

Its been insane here for the last three weeks. Pretty much been working 12 hour days every day + weekends trying to stay on top of it, but its definitely a good problem to have

Did an unemployment hearing, more orphans court work, some family law, and some medicare compliance work. Also, signed a new business client who's building a 5 million dollar hotel/bar/restaurant, so we'll be with them from formation onwards. Got a few PI clients as well.

Here's an interesting PI case:

Our CL goes to a bar around Halloween. Flirts with the bartender, who is a 21 yr old pretty white girl. Our CL is a young black guy. Bartender is the owner's daugther fwiw.

Has a few drinks, gets ready to leave, and the bartender says, "no, don't leave, stay and hang out with me, blah blah" and gives our CL a few free drinks. Stays another hour or two.

Around 11:45, he decides its time to go home. Bartender and him are making jokes as he's packing up. Bartender says something like, "what would it take to get you to stay?" and he says, "Idk, maybe a kiss?"

She replies, "Sorry, I don't kiss black guys", but the laughter and flirtatiousness is gone.

CL replies, "Oh yeah? Well your mom does" (Still laughing, probably bc he's slightly inebriated) (Also, smallish town, our CL knows who bartenders mom is, who is bar owners wife, and they are currently divorcing)

Cook at restaurant, who's walking behind bar, hears this and says, "I'm not having a black man talk to a white lady like that" and grabs our CL, physically drags him out of the bar, and starts beating on him as he gets to the bar exit.

Our CL defends himself, and they start fighting outside. Runs away before police arrive, but has some bruising. No medical treatment needed. He is currently banned from the bar and everyone around town has heard what happened by now (according to CL, the last part that is)

So yeah, interesting case. Just walked in a few days ago as a referral from a previous CL for a different type of matter. Injuries not off the charts physically, but the pain and suffering from the embarrassment is staggering.

WUG thread? Anyone handled anything like this before?

Edit: Happy Holidays everyone!!!
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:57 PM   #13179
Gioco
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Re: Law School

I did not personally handle the case, but I am familiar with an Ohio case where a food shop owner humiliated a customer (and this sort of treatment was sort of a tradition in this deli); the customer had no physical injuries but got a substantial award from a jury, upheld on appeal. If you're interested, let me know I'll pm where to look.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:15 PM   #13180
Gioco
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Re: Law School

Also, in response to your pm, see Meyers v. Hot Bagels Factory, Inc. (1999), 131 Ohio App.3d 82, a google search shows that it has been cited for several reasons in other cases; Terry v. Ottawa County Bd. etc.; used in briefs, Wong v. Hosler; and cited by at least two other appellate courts in Ohio.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:01 PM   #13181
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Re: Law School

Guys,

I'm older, 33, and going back to law school. I've taken the LSAT and have applied to schools. Right now my best options are about 10k total tuition to go to Alabama and about a 5k a year scholarship to Texas, would have like 200k in debt, and will be paying out of state tuition. I've been talking it over with my wife and we are both thinking Texas but just want to get some different input. I would be willing to practice in either state. I'm from Alabama so my relatives and family live there but love Austin and Texas in general. I've been thinking I would like to go to Big Law but I'm not dead set on the idea. I realize Texas pretty much locks me into Big Law until I get my debt load smaller.

Also, I wasn't the best student in undergrad. I had a 3.15 GPA. I'm older now and more disciplined but would I struggle at a school like Texas? Worried my academic pedigree is lacking compared to the young kids that would be entering with me. Also, I wasn't lazy in undergrad. I was on a D1 sports team that competed at very high levels (I was all-Big Ten a couple years). I always said I would have done way better in school if I hadn't played on that team. Now I'm worried I'll be outpaced by smarter kids etc.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:06 PM   #13182
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Re: Law School

If you’re outpaced it won’t be for those reasons. I’m 32 and recently graduated from maybe the most comparable school in the country to UT and my age was a significant advantage.

That being said I’d still vote Alabama. I’m in biglaw with zero debt load and all of the HLS/SLS/CLS/NYU kids say they’re jealous and a bit regretful. $2k/month for a decade is a big chunk of net income anywhere.

gl either way though!

eta: feel free to PM me if you for some reason wanna talk privately
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:39 PM   #13183
maddog876
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Re: Law School

Seconded. Age doesn't matter, and if anything it's an advantage.

No matter how capable you are, I still think that getting big law involves some degree of luck. It's quite easy to get stuck in the median of the law school curve. Especially when 1L grades are weighted so heavily for big-law, so there's not much opportunity to differentiate yourself from the pack.

I personally wouldn't want the added pressure of $200k + accruing interest over my head when trying to perform in law school and make big law, but people obviously do it. Texas would of course provide you more wiggle room in where you have to be grade-wise to be considered for big law, but you'd be somewhat locked in to that career path.

On a quasi-related note: I'll be graduating with $65k in debt while going into public interest, and I am horribly underwhelmed by actual benefits of the federal LRAP. You need a substantial amount of debt for the forgiveness to actually mean something, and regardless of your debt load, the required monthly payment is still crippling (at least in NYC). But alas. It wouldn't have changed my job decision anyways.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:04 PM   #13184
xdeuceswild81xx
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Re: Law School

In my experience, the "adults" aka people over the age of 25 when starting LS, had a significant advantage. Granted, I was at a T2, but the over 25 crowd seemed to have a more biz-like mindset from day 1 and had less of an adjustment period than the K-JD kids. I know, personally, it took me a good wake up call at end of first semester to realize LS wasn't going to be super easy like school prior to LS was....but the over 25 crowd has probably had that gut-punch moment in other aspects, like a real job.

Idk, just my experience. The top 10% in our class was roughly half non K-JD and half K-JD. Not sure if anything can be drawn from it, but I think the non K-JD crowd did better overall
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:46 AM   #13185
Dave D
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Re: Law School

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletom View Post
Guys,

I'm older, 33, and going back to law school. I've taken the LSAT and have applied to schools. Right now my best options are about 10k total tuition to go to Alabama and about a 5k a year scholarship to Texas, would have like 200k in debt, and will be paying out of state tuition. I've been talking it over with my wife and we are both thinking Texas but just want to get some different input. I would be willing to practice in either state. I'm from Alabama so my relatives and family live there but love Austin and Texas in general. I've been thinking I would like to go to Big Law but I'm not dead set on the idea. I realize Texas pretty much locks me into Big Law until I get my debt load smaller.
I'm not sure that UT would lock you into BigLaw in the sense that if you don't finish top half or something, you might not get BigLaw. So I wouldn't assume that, but I could be wrong. Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, just saying. It would suck to take on all that debt thinking you will get BigLaw and then don't, for whatever reason. Also, I realize you meant that you would be "locked" in BigLaw because of the money, but it's good that you're realizing now that that isn't only path. Less debt keeps your options open, and I think this is a huge huge consideration.

Also, you can still end up in Texas by going to Alabama. Don't underestimate those sports connections, which also makes your grades a little less important. So yes, you wouldn't be in Texas for 3 years, but you could probably still get yourself at least one summer gig there. I doubt Bama is that regional that they can't get people into Austin.

Quote:
Also, I wasn't the best student in undergrad. I had a 3.15 GPA. I'm older now and more disciplined but would I struggle at a school like Texas?
This is just a very your mileage may vary statement. What was your major, where did you go etc etc.

Quote:
Worried my academic pedigree is lacking compared to the young kids that would be entering with me. Also, I wasn't lazy in undergrad. I was on a D1 sports team that competed at very high levels (I was all-Big Ten a couple years). I always said I would have done way better in school if I hadn't played on that team. Now I'm worried I'll be outpaced by smarter kids etc.
As others have said, the time off is really valuable. I took a year off and wish I had taken 2-3 years. I'm sure you will be fine with grades, but also your sports/working background will help a lot (more the sports). Just don't be "great job at the D.A.'s office as long as you never miss a lawyer's league game." (sorry I re-watched it this weekend).
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:09 PM   #13186
turtletom
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Re: Law School

Quote:
Originally Posted by minnesotasam View Post
If you’re outpaced it won’t be for those reasons. I’m 32 and recently graduated from maybe the most comparable school in the country to UT and my age was a significant advantage.

That being said I’d still vote Alabama. I’m in biglaw with zero debt load and all of the HLS/SLS/CLS/NYU kids say they’re jealous and a bit regretful. $2k/month for a decade is a big chunk of net income anywhere.

gl either way though!

eta: feel free to PM me if you for some reason wanna talk privately
I got into Minnesota law; it's where my mother attended. Is that where you went? It doesn't seem like a bad value. I would have to convince my wife to live in Minnesota though.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:54 PM   #13187
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Re: Law School

I started LS at 29, with most of my work experience being as a paralegal, and I've crushed the K-JD students at two different schools.
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:59 PM   #13188
minnesotasam
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Re: Law School

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Originally Posted by turtletom View Post
I got into Minnesota law; it's where my mother attended. Is that where you went? It doesn't seem like a bad value. I would have to convince my wife to live in Minnesota though.
Nah, just from there originally. A little better ranked and a lot warmer.
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Old 01-03-2018, 10:36 PM   #13189
The Muffin Man
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Re: Law School

Hey smart law people. Not sure where to post this. Please move/delete/inform me. Looking for a little advice.

I talked to a crypto tax specialist today regarding (online) poker and crypto. Before I could get too far into the details of my situation, He interrupted me to tell me that I shouldn't go into details since we wouldn't have attorney/client privilege. He then advised me to hire a tax attorney who could have me sign a document (that I can't remember the name of) that would extend my attorney/client privilege over to him so that we could talk freely. He seemed to think that the online poker part wasn't totally legal. This is all sounding very expensive to me. Can anyone give me any advice on this? Thanks.
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Old 01-04-2018, 04:52 PM   #13190
Dave D
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Re: Law School

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Originally Posted by The Muffin Man View Post
Hey smart law people. Not sure where to post this. Please move/delete/inform me. Looking for a little advice.

I talked to a crypto tax specialist today regarding (online) poker and crypto. Before I could get too far into the details of my situation, He interrupted me to tell me that I shouldn't go into details since we wouldn't have attorney/client privilege. He then advised me to hire a tax attorney who could have me sign a document (that I can't remember the name of) that would extend my attorney/client privilege over to him so that we could talk freely. He seemed to think that the online poker part wasn't totally legal. This is all sounding very expensive to me. Can anyone give me any advice on this? Thanks.
You should probably call back and ask. We don't really like to give advice about specific situations since we don't know all the facts and the state you are in can make a difference.

He may have said to sign a retainer with a lawyer. You could discuss fees with him, or the lawyer, or both.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:58 PM   #13191
CohibaBehike
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Re: Law School

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Muffin Man View Post
I talked to a crypto tax specialist today regarding (online) poker and crypto. Before I could get too far into the details of my situation, He interrupted me to tell me that I shouldn't go into details since we wouldn't have attorney/client privilege. He then advised me to hire a tax attorney who could have me sign a document (that I can't remember the name of) that would extend my attorney/client privilege over to him so that we could talk freely. He seemed to think that the online poker part wasn't totally legal. This is all sounding very expensive to me. Can anyone give me any advice on this? Thanks.
what type of service are you looking for? if you are simply seeking advice or an opinion letter from an attorney - that really should not be too expensive (although I know price sensitivity for legal services is relative).
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Old 01-15-2018, 02:22 PM   #13192
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Re: Law School

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Originally Posted by xdeuceswild81xx View Post

Judge, still not amused, looks at me and says, "Counsel, you take that tone with me again, I'll have you in contempt"

I replied, 'Your honor, I apologize if you believe I was taking a certain tone. I didn't mean any disrespect to you or this courtroom. However, I can't allow my CL to testify against CL's own best interest. So if you're going to force testimony today, regardless of CL's constitutional rights, you'll have to take me out of here in handcuffs"
lol awesome. I mean...don't do anything illegal or douchey or untoward, but there are judges all over the place who are bitter or who are on some power trip for some unknown reason. You can't back down just because of his/her position as a judge. Especially if you are young, they probably thought they could intimidate you into whatever suited their purpose. F that.

I had a Judge threaten to throw me in jail during a trial a few years back. He wouldn't let me talk about a certain document until "the door was open", and imo, the door was open like 4 times and it's not like they say "OKAY DOOR'S OPEN NOW" so then I would ask the magic question and he freaked out and sent the jury out and cussed me out for 5 minutes. After the trial, I told him where I was coming from and we were cool. He even helped me out about a month later by issuing a super favorable ruling to help me (and my legal assistant) out of a potential jam that was self inflicted, but nonetheless ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xdeuceswild81xx View Post
Update:

Tough few weeks here. Going to run in the black in Nov, but might not be able to take a paycheck for Dec. Not a huge deal, but sucks. Nov and Dec are so ****ing slow around here w/the holidays. I assume that's everywhere, but would love to hear from other attorneys in other areas if that's std.

Had about 1.5k coming in the door for two custody's, but both CL's changed their mind/got back together w/significant other, so custody not needed.

Most important though, might have had an easy big judgment slip through our fingers. Had a CL who's house got destroyed by two drivers in the middle of the night. Completely destroyed the house, tons of damage, etc. Anyways, my mentor valued the case around 150k, but could have been worth slightly more if pitched the right way. W/o getting into details, just got to trust me on that value

Anyways, turns out the drivers were racing and the insurance companies pretty much told me to sack up and sue them individually. They are claiming no liability since the act is now in the realm of "intentional torts" and not negligence, so gg.

We can still sue them individually, but they don't have any money, since they're just kids. (like 21 and 23) I'm thinking about just suing them anyways, we'll win 100%, tbh move for summary judgment on duty/breach/causation, just would be trial on damages. So, hopefully, they get mommy or daddy to bail them out so their credit scores aren't wrecked. If not, there certainly won't be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, unfortunately.

I know we'll work it out and it's very likely we will get some fee....but it's definitely a gut punch to think you have 50k coming in the door and then all of a sudden, get the carpet pulled out from under you.

(Lots more details I left out fwiw. I know that might be sort of short, but yeah)

I guess the golden rule is don't count your money until it is in your account lol. Hard not to get excited to win big cases though.

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving in the thread. Don't work too hard guys
1. Can't speak for anyone other practice, but personal injury practice thrives in December. All of the insurance companies are trying to meet their quotas/clear a certain number of files. I get more reasonable offers or cold call offers of settlement on random cases during this time. It's tough to conduct actual business because everyone is out on vacation but December is always my best month, by far.

2. I would take your intentional tort case, write a demand letter, and see what happens. Then, if they deny it, I would sue them. I once had a case where 2 groups of people got into a fight at a whataburger at 3AM. One of the guys followed the group home, and as they got out of their car, intentionally tried to run them over, breaking my guy's leg. Guy was even arrested and convicted for assault with a deadly weapon or something...(first element = INTENT) We sued them anyway (my partner did actually), and I was expecting them to deny coverage, they never did and we settled for kind of a lot.

We had another one (all over the news) where an old man intentionally swerved to take out a motorcyclist who was passing him, and he claimed there was a bee in his car. Obviously BS. Insurance company paid policy limits.

I'm not sure what the case law or the insurance policy says (probably excluded), but it could be covered. They didn't intentionally run into your dude's house. Did they deny racing? Did the other guy knock him into the house? Was there something else that caused the car to go into the house? Slick roads, etc.? Different angles to pursue. Also, your client has a homeowner's claim for sure, and you might check into uninsured/under-insured coverage just to be safe...probably nothing there, but maybe.
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