If you are going big law I would strongly suggest corp/transactional. It is infinitely easier to go in house after 3-4 years and do the same stuff in a 9-6 job @ approx the same salary. I really feel like it is a no brainer if you're like me and really don't care about the stuff you're working on

Thinking back at ppl from my firm who left, everyone from my group is at a hedge fund / bank / f500 company making a lot of money. Guys my year from lit are either at another big law firm or a smaller firm doing lit. I guess if you're a lit superstar you go work for fedgovt but I wouldn't bank on that

I want to also +1 dave's point that you should consider working a normal job for less money especially since it seems like you're not drowning in debt. An ~80k entry level govt job is pretty awesome too

Firm has a great rep for having great people (and in my experience so far it seems to be true in general) and is also very large--such that there will be a ton of good people and invariably some bad people too in all practice areas

It's made my decision harder because I can't say I like the people in one more than the other. And despite my 2p2 persona, I'm pretty easy going in real life and get along with mostly everyone, so it's not hard for me to fit in well whereever.

Yea this is what is making this so hard because I suspect I will like litigation more, but I don't know if I will like it enough more to entertain much worse exit options. I certainly am not a pound the table litigator and have enjoyed or at least not loathed the corporate work I've done so far.

Can I pm you?

This sounds like a nice gig to me but I suspect it's a lot harder to get than it may seem. The days of a law degree regularly leading to non-legal jobs is long gone, and the JD holders that can get them probably have a lot better things to offer than I do.

sure

The hardest part is knowing what hoops to jump through the right way in the application process, it's not substantively that hard. You're qualified with a law degree. Most of my coworkers have some kind of masters (though probably largely from Phoenix or something else silly) but few have law or business degrees. That is changing though, as people figure out the government is a great gig.

Only 3 more weeks of bar prep, I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel!


Question for everyone: How do you deal w/family members/friends/acquaintances asking for legal advice off the cuff? Like, for example, your friend has a landlord/tenant dispute and asks you what they should do. I know its not good practice/could be malpractice to give advice on matters you're not qualified in, but what is your go-to appropriate response so you can not give the advice w/o sounding like a pretentious dick? Is there a way to graciously tell someone you can't help them w/their issues?

Friends ask me legal advice all the time now (lol) even though I haven't passed the bar, but it's easy to give the std, "I'm not an attorney, so I can't give advice" line. But, in a few months, that line won't work anymore (hopefully, assuming I pass )

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but I didn't know what the right answer was.

I just tell people I'm not an expert in that area of law and can't help. But I'll generally try to steer them to resources or people that might help. (E.g., "reckless driving is pretty serious in Virginia. You should probably get a traffic attorney to handle your case. They usually work on flat fees and aren't too expensive. I'd probably even retain one myself").

No one has ever asked me for admin law advice, and I expect they never will lol, so that usually works.

I'll sometimes give more substantive info but only if they are close friends and it's something I know about. You'll be amazed at the people who you haven't talked to for years coming out of the woodwork to ask for free legal advice. They always try to veil it under some pretext of "just wanted to catch up" too, which really annoys me.

Taking NY UBE in July, second time taking after failed by 18 points on NY State specific in February. As much as I love Big Dick Freer, I don't know how much more time I can spend with him. Wish me some run good.

-Boris

Basically I listen, empathize, ask questions to hone in on what the real issue is, And then tell them they need to go talk to a lawyer that specializes in that area. If there is any helpful advice that doesn't involve the law (and there often is) I'll offer that up. There's no shame in saying "good question - I don't know the answer" and if they want you to go find the answer and you're not comfortable going there just say [x] law isn't really something people want to dabble in - you either know a lot about it or you can end up just causing a lot of trouble. While everyone loves to get free advice, at the end of the day if you're genuinely sympathetic and as helpful as you can be, people appreciate that - and if they don't, $&@! em.

As you get more experience and know more decent attorneys then there's also the opportunity to make a referral, which can be a winning move for everyone.

A lot of F&F legal questions are really business or negotiation questions dressed up as questions about the law. LL/tenant questions are a classic example. No one is going to court over their plugged-up toilet, so it's not really relevant who has the responsibility to unclog it, and it's very often the case that sending some threatening legal-y demand letter will be counterproductive even if the law is clear and you knew what it said.

If someone who's not a nuclear family member has a real legal issue, you tell them to get right the **** over to a paid lawyer immediately, whether you know the subject or not. You can still commit malpractice for a client who isn't paying you, and it's awfully hard to do the work to give quality legal advice free of charge.

Thank you for the advice everyone, I will definitely use those responses. Seems like such an awkward thing, like telling friends/family politely that you can't help/have to pay or whatever.

I took my simulated MBE today and got a raw score of 125/200. Not bad, feel like I can improve, since I was seriously crashing around question 140 or so. Pretty sure that would be high enough to pass though if it was gameday. Feel bad though, my roommate just got a 98, which apaz BarBri says isn't too bad, but he's really panicking now. 3 weeks to go, almost done!

How hard and how much studying would it be for the California bar for someone called in New York who has been practicing for 3 years?

You know what's even worse than that? When current clients call for legal advice on an unrelated matter that you haven't been paid or retained for. My father represents a private school high school in general counsel matters but the administrators at the school constantly ask him legal advice regarding personal matters unrelated to the business of the school.

E-mail received this morning...

"Please advise if the below agreement is acceptable and I will have my client executed."

Very poor choice of words there.

1 week till the bar. Two of my roommates decided to start studying for the bar last week and they're complaining about how much information there is to learn. I'll probably just have to off myself if they pass the bar and I don't lol. I'm sincerely hoping we all pass, but yeah, highly doubtful.

I don't usually like to toot my own horn here but I feel like I have to crow somewhere - just made partner.

Congrats aj!!!

Nice congrats man.

Congrats bro!

Not anyone else more deserving on here congrats.

Thanks guys!

GL to everyone taking the bar!

Congrats AJ very well deserved

Just finished the bar exam. Hopefully I will never have to do that again. Feel pretty confident that I passed, although the MBE was insanely difficult. Also, our PT was pretty ridic as well. Now, the long 3 month wait begins....

Anyone have California bar exam materials they can send over? Wife and I both lawyers (called in New York + Ontario) and are considering moving to SF. Wouldn't mind scanning over the material before committing. Please PM.