CPHoya, a regular 2p2er, does entertainment law. Maybe reach out to him via pm.

I wanted to be an agent so I took sports law and within 10 minutes we were talking about antitrust and I did not want to take sports law nor become an agent anymore.

I signed up for Family Law Clinic this semester and it's been quite interesting so far to say the least. I had to send over some documents to opposing counsel, nothing too time sensitive, he just made a request was all. He made the request Tuesday, so Wednesday I got them all together and went to fax it, but our fax machine + scanner broke. I sent him an email letting him know it would be there Thursday.

Worked it all out, sent over all the docs Thursday via email at 2:45 pm. I woke up to an email the next morning from him telling me off. He said:

1. Never send emails that late in the day
2. Have i ever heard of timely? It's been a whole 48 hours since he asked! (direct quote, no sarcasm)

3. I'll never be a good attorney if i can't adhere to these basic rules.


Honestly, I would assume I didn't do anything wrong and just ran into a dickhead, but help me out if I did? Is 2:45 too late to send an email over? I wasn't even looking for a response, just sending over something he requested.

No, you didn't do anything wrong. Next time you can tell him to get all his documentation through discovery.

Yeah, that's weird. I do family law. When there's a deadline, people are lucky to get things by 5 pm.

Unless it's already like a 10th request & there was like a 3 pm hearing on the case, he's tripping.

2:45 is late in the day? Most of the partners and the associates at the firm I work in are working until 730pm. I'd also say a majority of e-mail communications happen after the normal 9-5 hours too since firm represents a lot of individuals who have 9-5 jobs.

I've found that many of the more miserable older attorneys will use the tactic of guilt tripping you for very minor alleged breaches of etiquette like that. I assume it's just their way of trying to big-time you (THIS is the way things are done 'round these parts, youngun'"). After 7 years in practice I just laugh in their faces at this point

lol guy is just a douche trying to intimidate you. you were fine.

getting it within 72 hours is pretty freaking good ifyam

Cool, good to know, thanks everyone! I'm going to savor the look on his face when I go to pick up a check from him next week for our win against him at a PFA hearing.

lol at not sending emails at 2:45. You should forward that email to your supervisor too. It's guaranteed that you're not the only person he's abusive towards.

Went to pick up the check for payment today at his office. I arrive at 10:00 am, as we agreed upon via email. Waited in the lobby for 10 minutes while they were running around but he eventually comes out and tells me
"sorry kiddo, don't got your money today".

Obviously trying to get a rise, I just said, "Okay, I'll hold off on withdrawing my petition. Have a good day".

I get back to office 15 minutes later and I have an email from his paralegal saying, "Sorry, we found the check. It's available at your convenience now." lol

Had to drive back and get it, but it was worth it to win imo. Apparently he's just a huge dick to everyone but his dad was the most senior judge in the county for like 50 years. He's on pace to be a judge in the upcoming election as well, so despite him being a huge a-hole, seemed to be prudent to just show no reaction and deal with it.

Cliffs: It's okay to be a dick to everyone as long as your dad was powerful (jk)

Standard

Hey guys,

1L here. I feel like I'm having trouble retaining the information we're learning, particularly in Civ Pro and Contracts. I'm understanding it as we go over it in class, but can barely recall specifics by the end of the week. Slightly unsettling.

Is this a fairly normal feeling at this point in the semester? I should get a significant portion of the outlining done this weekend, so hopefully being able to have a concrete compilation of the material we've covered so far to review daily on the subway will help it sink in. Any other advice/thoughts/suggestions?

Another question: How much time do you think is optimal to allocate to pre-class readings? I feel like I'm spending substantially too much time and need to make a change, especially since I'm having trouble retaining it anyways. Did most of you shift focus to E&Es, other supplements, reviewing, and practice exams around this point?

Thanks!

Just my opinion, so others may have a totally different viewpoint.

Fwiw, I'm top 25% at a middle of the pack T1.



I was lost my entire 1L year in Civ Pro and contracts. I didn't really start understanding Civ Pro until I began filing docs during my work in the summers. I think the Glannon E&E is the nuts and just do some extra readings in that supp.

No advice for contracts other than just keep at it . I did fine in both subjects, but I put in some serious time. I was definitely not one of the born-genius's in those classes.

As far as being lost, I think everyone is pretty lost 1L. Some classes seem to be easier to understand, like say Con Law since it mixes in some history, but a true procedural class like Civ Pro can be confusing. I think your plan of outlining this weekend + reviewing it on the subway is good.


Just remember, it's still only the halfway point/60% mark in the semester, so you still have time. 1L is a marathon, not a sprint, so don't burn yourself out now with stress. Try to relax some and enjoy yourself on the weekends. I never studied past 5 pm on a Friday and went out both nights, yet did just fine. Every person has their own study plan that works for them, so try to find your balance.


Finally, my 1L I didn't shift to supplements/outside resources at all and I wish I had. I think what separated my 1L grades from the elite top 5% was supplements tbh. Being able to synthesize all the information you take in is challenging, but it's much easier when there is a supplement that will lay it out for you. Also, if you are able to find some, I would even start hammering practice exams soon. Just remember, it's all about that final at the end, nothing more. If you can ace a final, it doesn't matter how much you read, how you did on cold calls, how many weekends you went out, etc.

GL dude, hang in there.

Waiting to hear back from schools has easily been most stressful part of process so far.

I figured I would throw this out there and see if anyone has any thoughts...


I'm prepping for my first "real" trial in a couple of weeks. I've done two PFA hearings + a few settlements thus far in my clinic but nothing real like this. Our issue is an opposing party ceasing to pay support obligations.

Anyways, I'm struggling with questions for direct exam. I've written out some basic questions but it just feels so...fake. Like, it's so structured and rigid, it almost feels wrong. For example, just sample Q's like : "Were you married, how long, etc." or "when did the support payments stop coming in, which date, etc." I have been brainstorming some follow up Q's but obviously won't really be able to practice those as much. I'm usually a great public speaker but with zero experience in this area, I'm afraid I'm going to blow this.

My professor won't help as it's the "clinic method" to learn on your own (lol right?) so I guess my Q for the thread is: Any tips for direct exam that you would have for a first time attorney?

Direct examination is really just about getting your witness's story out, not public speaking. Typically, the attention during direct should be placed on the witness, and the attention during cross should be on the lawyer.

Just talk to your witness ahead of time and make sure that your questions hit on every relevant part of your witness's story.

A checklist with all the elements that you need to get out during direct might help. I am not sure what elements are required exactly for a child support hearing. For a grand theft, for example, the elements I would check off if I was a prosecutor would be like:

____ What was taken

____ When was it taken

____ Did you give permission for anybody to take?

____ Value of property

____ What county was it taken in.



I am not in family law, but I imagine something like

___ How much were you being paid in child support

___ Last time you were paid

___ How much is owed

___ Changes in circumstances (or lack thereof)



Remember from your evidence class that an admission from a party opponent is admissible hearsay, and it is often the most effective evidence to get out during direct examination.

If support obligations are the only issue (child or spousal, temp or permanent?), it's a pretty easy set of questions.

Like Donk said, you aren't there to put on a show, just to get out the important elements to establish your claim.

& yah, the perfunctory questions feel a bit forced, but there's no super cool way to ask someone to state their name for the record.

Witness prep is super important because you're not allowed to lead the witness too much so you need to be in sync with them & they need to know the answers to each question you are going to ask them. It's best to make questions, walk them through them, making note of their answers & improving the questions to make sure you get everything semi-important out, then give them a printout of the questions & answers to review.

It sounds like you won't actually have access to the witness if you don't think you'll be able to practice follow up questions, which seems silly if it's supposed to be a real trial, but you should pretty much always know exactly what the answer is going to be to any question you ask on direct.

Exhibits are important in this type of case. If you can prep the witness, you want them to be familiar with all the documents you're going to ask them about.

The Order in which the support was granted is basically always going to be the 1st one as it's the best evidence of the amount owed & the timing of when it's due, & sometimes the form on which it's supposed to be payable.

The other one I'd pretty much always have is an arrearages calculator that shows the amounts due each month, the amounts paid, & calculates penalties & interest based on underpayments. You want to show the Judge exactly how much is owed so if they rule in your favor they can just give you the # you ask for.

What other Exhibits are important depends on the fact pattern. If opposing party claims they paid you'll want heavily redacted back statements from all your accounts that show the payments the client did receive (if any), & shows where they stop. If they claim waiver, perhaps relevant text messages. If they claim change of circumstances they're pretty much SOL, at least in my state, at least as it relates to a retroactive modification.

Whatever it is, though, you want your questions to the witness to track the Exhibits. This means that the Exhibit List should be in the same order as your questions. You also want to ask your client about as many of the Exhibits as possible because that's how you get them admitted into evidence, unless opposing counsel has already stipulated.

Sorry, I'm rambling, it's 5 am.

Just make sure you prep your witness so you are not surprised during questioning. I volunteer in EMS and the ambulance company was deposed about an assault incident in a civil trial. The three witnesses for the ambulance corps all gave different versions of events. Attorney was a first year associate at insurance defense firm and really dropped ball.

I have no clue as to legally what facts you are required to put on the record, but direct examination is just telling a story. And you aren't the one telling it. Prep is huge because you really want to make your questions just prompts to allow the witness to tell the story that you want them to tell.

If I have a good witness, there can be a period of time where my questions are variations of "And then what happened?"

Or if they aren't so good, then you might have to prompt them a little more, "And then did you go to the doctor?"

and if they really suck, then it's "Did you do any physical therapy with regards to your shoulder injury at a doctor's office?"

And if you have the worst witness ever, "Let me show Exhibit 1, a copy of your medical records. Read over those (then I start jabbing the relevant part with my finger for them to read)", then you re-ask the question.

When I first started I wrote out all of my questions in case I get nervous and/or offtrack, I make sure not to miss everything. I always try to anticipate the various answers so I have a follow up written down. Obviously, as you get more comfortable, you just write down topics you don't want to forget and think about what a judge/jury/appeals court wants/needs to hear and ask questions accordingly.

It depends who you are crossing obviously, but I think cross is it's important when you cross someone to 1. not argue with someone who knows more than you and 2. get to the point. I had to cross an expert doctor once and we didn't have our own expert (terrible case) and I had this big elaborate cross worked out in my head, and then when I got in there, I was just like "How much have you been paid on this case?" answer, "30k". "What are my clients policy limits?" "25k". "And this is her own insurance company isn't that right?" Thanks. Something like that to really hammer home the point that this whole thing is a charade.

Really appreciate the help guys! I'm drafting some questions now and I finally practically begged the client to give me an hour or two to run through questions before trial.

I told CL how important it was that we prep and the exact response back was, "I don't see how this is important, just wing it and it will be fine." lolfamilylaw

As far as exhibits, I shouldn't have too many. I think we may only have one, the MSA, since our CL didn't keep track of the checks at all. I really like the idea of the arrears calculator too. However, we only have like 5 $100 payments missing, so it's not anything too complicated.

Seriously though, appreciate the help everyone. I feel like I'm starting to understand the law after 3 years but it's still confusing on procedural issues...like when to offer exhibits and such. Also, learning when to "object" seems to be a skill you gain with time and practice.

Meh, my clients are getting prepped. If not, I just tell them not to blame me when they screw it all up. i usually even write a letter that says "We requested for you to come in and prep, but you opted not to against my advice" blah blah.

Yep. Always get the CYA in writing.

Once CL realized if we lose she won't get money, she quickly came around. All good

Hey guys,

After having my section get the worst schedule first term--though admittedly not that badly (only section with 8 a.m. class and only section with a CivPro class that met four days a week instead of three), the school has released the following schedules for next term.

Of note is the amount of time between one block of classes and the next class. Per week:

Section 1 has 2 hours, 40 minutes
Section 2 has 9 hours, 10 minutes
Section 3 has 21 hours, 10 minutes



Is there any way to file a grievance with the ABA or anything for something like this? My guess is no given that we're all spending the same amount of time in class, but this is ridiculous.

It doesn't help that the school is filled with mouth-breathers who don't even recognize anything is unfair. There was a massive row on Facebook with 42/60 people in my section answering in the affirmative that they would petition the school; when the petition was passed, only 8 had the courage to sign it. Class schedules posted below.

Thanks for any input.