What do those numbers mean?

means he crushed it. Grats MD!

congrats maddog

Sup everyone,


Had a bar meeting/dinner networking event last night and I was sitting with two experienced PI attorneys. They were talking about how to draft complaints for PI cases. I'm about to file a complaint in 3 different PI cases within the next few weeks, so it was of particular interest to me. Wanted to get the thread's takes on their discussion.


Discussion: Should you put lots of facts in your complaint?

Attorney A thought for simple PI's, like auto's or slip n falls, you should limit the facts of the situation as much as possible. Get your material facts in to the complaint, and then move on.

His take was you should keep your complaints to as few paragraphs as possible (he said he does 10 or less usually), just establishing the background information (parties, jurisdiction, venue, arbitration or not, etc.) After that, make sure you allege all the elements of course, but he believes if you put too many facts, you'll just open your witness up to impeachment later down the line. He said it was similar to telling a police officer your story initially, as you gain nothing but can only be impeached with it later. Since the facts will only be questions of fact, you won't get Preliminary Objections filed either. He just said be ready for summary judgement immediately after discovery ends.

Attorney B thought you should put all the facts into your complaint. His reasoning was you're trying to convince the OC that your case has merit and you can drive more reasonable settlement offers by laying your cards on the table. He said your "good" cards, so to speak, will be played by you regardless, so giving them upfront just makes the OC's first impression of the case more favored to your side. So, according to him, his complaints will be like 80 paragraphs of facts for a simple red car hits blue car type of auto accident, or plaintiff slips on ice outside of a store. He said its like running a power sweep in football and telling the defense, I'm sweeping off the 8 hole and you know I'm doing it, but you can't stop it.


So, after all that long typing, what do some of the more experienced attorneys think? I was personally leaning towards Attorney A's thoughts, but I was really interested to hear what other people think.

Sorry if that's a lot to take in for an early morning post

Hope everyone is printing money and winning cases out there


P.S.- Anyone have experience hiring staff? My shop has been getting too busy for the last few months and if we stay this busy for the next 3-4 months, I'm going to hire a secretary. I imagine hiring employees brings a whole different set of challenges/skills and if anyone had any thoughts on their experience, it's greatly appreciated.

obviously depends on pleading standard in PA, but where in NY where pleading standards are very liberal; we try and keep complaints to two pages or less and just state enough facts to have a valid cause of action.

Lawsuits are very rarely settled on pleadings alone (it does happen but not often) so we figure we just do all of that work later in discovery instead of upfront.

Yup, my bad. Sent this post off in between sets this morning while lifting and left that out. Appreciate you catching it.

But, the two pages or less, that's pretty much exactly what attorney A was saying.

I used notice pleading whenever possible. To draft a good fact complaint requires many more hours invested in drafting the complaint that I could use doing something else (and it accomplished nothing (maybe caused problems) if a notice complaint was acceptable).

One state I practiced in required fact pleading for some specific (non-PI) statutory cases. I found it a pain, a waste of time, and a procedural trap. It gave defense attorneys chances to move for dismissal because some fact in the complaint turned out to be slightly different or defense counsel could characterize the fact differently and convince a judge of their interpretation. It didn't mean that you lost, but it required re-drafting your complaint, new service, and created possible discovery problems.

I see no advantage in your run-of-the-mill motor vehicle case to using fact pleading if notice pleading is good in your state.

Here in MD generally it's pretty basic facts in the pleading. A little while ago I had a landlord tenant case and I had to amend one time. When I realized the landlord was 1. stupid 2. not going to hire a lawyer 3. not respond I threw in a bunch of more specific facts because it looked really good for my client and I wanted a judge to read it and get mad and give me 3x damages+ lawyers fees, which is what I got. So I guess that's one exception. Baltimore judges are known to be pretty sympathetic towards tenants so that made me less worried about putting in more stuff, since a judge isn't likely to be nit picking me. I've heard it's hard to get attorney fees though so that's why I wanted to make it look as bad as possible.

Bold added.

You're lucky. Where I practiced, judges seldom read complaints and never read long complaints.

Yeah I should have said "if, on the off chance a judge actually reads it" haha. Doubt it got read too especially since I was doing a motion for default later on.

Thanks for the advice, Gioco/Dave. Always good to get some varying opinions on these topics imo.

With all that being confirmed, I should be filing 5 complaints (1 NIED, 2 autos, 2 slip and falls) first week of June. They're all set to go now, but I'm going on vacation from the 18th-25th, and with no SOL issues, decided it would be better to wait till I return. Might sound like an average week for lots of PI firms, but I'm excited for a relatively new attorney like myself.

In unrelated news, networking is so dope. Ran a tough mudder with some local attorneys/judges recently, and got invited to the president Judge's homegame. Went to my first homegame last night (lost 2 flips for stacks and lost bout tree fiddy), and picked up a 5k flat fee case from one of the players. Guy does criminal work mainly, got a client who needed a custody relocation hearing done this coming week, and so he referred to us. Contacted the potential CL today, met with PC, and got the entire retainer this afternoon. Now, just have to turn a case around in 4 days

So, my questions for the thread, do you think its appropriate to write him a thank you note for the referral? Just something easy and quick, nothing too in-depth.

Normally, I would think its fine, but I don't want to come off as a yuppy kid or overly desperate. Also, I didn't think it crosses any professional boundaries, but can't be too careful.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend

Thank you notes or gifts are appropriate.

I like a phone call, I think it goes a long way these days especially with older attorneys. Just like thanks for the referral the other night was fun etc. Everyone knows it takes two seconds to have a card or whatever sent, phone call more personal imo

Also, while on the topic of business development: retain the names and addresses of all of these attorneys and your clients (excel is good) and towards the end of the year send holiday cards. But not just the typical happy holiday BS that are useless.

Instead, include an insert or an announcement about your area of practices, etc and maybe stuff the card with a desk calendar branded with your name and firm. Every year we have 1 or 2 former clients/attorney networking partners say "oh gee I did not realize you guys handled (insert practice area here) can you do this for me or a family member?"

I was all like, YEAH! final year of law school, maybe I sign up for moot court tryouts. Then today a 257 page record is released and a brief is due in 11 days and it's like well I don't need it that badly.

Just posted my biggest month yet in May. Firm cleared about 15k gross, 13.5k profit. Picked up a pretty big case that's paying hourly and last month was our first month of work + got paid on a divorce case we were owed about 4k on ($$$ was in court escrow)

Doing my first "all day" trial this Wednesday. Its a custody relocation and opposing party has an expert testifying. It will be uphill, but I'm hoping for the best. The experience will be the best part imo.

Any advice on handling experts generally? I've been prepping relentlessly/reading on how to effectively cross, but I'm always looking for advice from experienced lawyers.

edit: I should add that those #'s above are slightly misleading. I was able to get a recovery in a PI case a few months ago and my take was slightly larger than this months gross. However, I had to split that with a partner attorney, so it ended up making this month better in terms of profit.

Double edit: Not my partner, an attorney outside of the firm who worked with us on the case.

BANG, ‘grats man!

Your life is so different from my biglaw existence (which I remain very happy with a whopping 7 months in).

Oh snap, Milbank trying to shake **** up!

saw that this afternoon, my cousin is a summer associate there and sent me link to NYLJ article.

Texas lawyers- A friend of mine here is doing a car accident that happened in TX. Hes working with an attorney there. My friend here says:

1. Medpay wants to be paid back full amount paid. Is this normal? Here medpay is like PIP where it’s all covered and doesn’t get paid back. Medpay only used to pay medical bills here as opposed to PIP.

2. Insurance only offering $4000 on $3000 in bills. After a standard 1/3 lawyer fee that doesnt leave much. Is this normal? Is this tort reform?

I am in FL, but:

(1) MedPay typically asserts subrogation rights in FL, which is also the case in Texas from a quick Google Search. So yes, the insurance carrier can demand to be paid back in full for MedPay, asserting a lien on the recovery.

(2) If insurance company is not offering enough, then don't take the offer! Insurance companies are going to low-ball a large percentage of the time. Insurance companies will also look up who the attorney is, and if it does not appear that the attorney can go the distance, they will confidently offer less than the case is worth, knowing that the plaintiff cannot afford the minimum $10,000 to $20,000 to actually take the case to trial.

I should have been a little more specific. What I meant is that here I will routinely negotiate down health insurance liens. Statutorily they have to drop it by at least 1/3 here in MD (except for non-ERISA type insurance I THINK, I haven't been 100% clear on this), but if health insurance is hiring a law firm, I've done 50% reductions. It says right in the statute about the 1/3, that it's a reduction because when an attorney is involved there are attorney fees. So he question is, will they negotiate this lien? My friend says no, but I forget if he thinks that, or he's already tried. I think he said he's already tried.

More importantly, what would be the point of paying for medpay on your policy if you have to pay them back in full?



Yeah that's true, but I only have probably around 7-8 relatively low dollar cases in the system, all low dollarish (I only had one for $30K I think as a UI claim, the rest usually in the $10K ballpark), and even I usually get 2x the meds as an opening offer, and settle for around 2.5x. My second one I got a little under 4x because she broke her foot.

My friend says in Texas they are known for being more harsh, tort reform? He says they aren't budging on the $4K.

Got the opinion and found out I lost my custody relocation hearing. I gave it my best effort, but we were just so outgunned resource-wise. I got the expert relatively neutralized though, as the opinion barely even mentioned the expert because OC made a mistake ( I think). Give me your thoughts on the following:

(Posture is unbelievably complicated bc previous counsel ****ed it all up. Never should have happened this way, but Judge made the best of a poorly handled situation) Also, I understand this might be kind of hard to follow, but I didn't want to give up too much identifying information.

Expert was testifying about child's therapy sessions. Expert entered a report that essentially stated our CL was allegedly inappropriately touching the minor based on expert's interpretation of the minor's therapists records.

Expert speaks for about an hour. Uses her report as the basis of her testimony. OC walked through experts qualifications, which were admittedly rock solid. Testifies our CL's behavior was consistent with characteristics of touching, blah blah, within a reasonable certainty, etc. etc. Most of the report is, "I read therapist XYZ's notes and concluded, based on their notes, minor is at risk for xyz".

OC rests. Naturally, we hit the expert on "can't prove it, no personal contact," and a few other std responses along those lines. Right as I'm about to finish my cross, I checked through my notes and realized, OC never actually qualified the expert as an expert lol.

So, I moved to have everything in the report stricken except the personal information and resume of the expert. The judge starts panicking slightly.

She looks up, asks OC, "would you like to qualify your witness now?"

OC says, "No thank you, your honor"

So I butted in that he didn't want to qualify, so the expert isn't an expert, and therefore, the report needs to be tossed because it the underlying information is hearsay.

OC looked petrified. Judge stood strong and ruled in our favor though since she wasn't qualified as an expert, so she couldn't offer expert opinions and the underlying report was all hearsay.

We still lost, but we had a very high burden to prove relocation and, to be fair, the opinion was well-written and reasoned, even if I disagree with the outcome. Our client was far from the ideal client.

Anyways, my question, was this a strategy move?! Would there ever be a reason not to qualify your expert?! Seems like such a basic mistake, but usually, when something seems incredibly basic, its because I just don't know enough about it to understand the complexity.

I thought if I had done something that dumb, I better be calling my malpractice agent lol

worked on appeal my 1L summer and two weeks ago got the decision - won a reversal. boring civil procedure related stuff but still pretty cool nonetheless. trial court judge converted a motion to dismiss into one for summary judgment without notice to the parties; so we win.

this week I assisted a friend (he's been an attorney for 14 months) in drafting opposition opposing a motion to vacate a default judgment previously entered against a large national retailer. my friend is (he admits) a terrible writer in general, so I assisted him in crafting a persuasive opposition. opposing counsel called today to settle. opposition was that good.

lawyering is fun.

Anyone practice in PA and do civil work? Have a question about personal jurisdiction if anyone has a second to lend a hand.

In other news, got two autos and a slip n fall about to settle. Going to file on the Slip, but can't imagine it even gets to discovery. The two autos should net the firm somewhere between 30-40k in total. If all things keep going according to plan, should be able to raise my salary nearly 80% from 2017--->2018, although it was low to begin with obviously.

After about 18 months in practice, I finally feel like I'm starting to hit my stride. Every new case has changed from, "How tf do we do this?!" to "Okay, lets print out sample XYZ and work from there." Also, just feeling way more comfortable in Court. Not getting the court jitters before every motion or small PFA hearing or arbitration matter. I have oral arguments next week where we are slotted for 1 hour of time and I feel confident, not nervous af. Still nervous of course, but feels like a healthy dose now.

Anyone else remember when they hit their stride, so to speak? Always interested in hearing from the more experienced guys out there.

A theory I've been workshopping is that it is easier for younger guys to catch up on the field now than it was back in the day. I think the standards for attorneys was lower in like, the 1970's, since competition wasn't as much of a factor, but the rise of technology makes it seem like I can learn in 18 months what an attorney in the 1970's took 5 years to do. I could be completely wrong and off-base, but it feels like the same situation as poker in the 00's, where the young guys caught up quickly.