Explain what you mean by Sorkin being smug if you dont mean intelligent.

I'm sorry but just because someone has read Proust and can quote Dickens does not make them smug. Sorkin writes about very intelligent people. For christ's sake the guy he is writing about in WW has two Phd's and a nobel prize. It's not smug to write him as if he was not a moron.

Chyme demonstrated his smugness already. This is evolving into exactly the type of no-win Blargian-Horseian endless internet argument that I avoid here. I respect and understand your position, but I think you're dead wrong.

Intelligence and smugness are also not mutually exclusive. Arguing that something isn't inherently smug just because it is intelligent is not an argument that sorkin's writing isn't smug. Maybe it's necessary to point out, but please understand that people can hold the opinion that sorkin's writing is (1) liberal, (2) intelligent, and (3) smug as hell.

fwiw, I am liberal.

Of course they are not exclusive but so far nobody has explained how it's smug. When they say smug they mean elitist and ivory tower. Aka intelligent.

I was initially thinking no, this is not the best legal show to include on this list, then I saw...

And thought okay, you still found room for it (even though it started to come apart during the last few seasons).


150% agree

My favorite scene from the show:

http://youtu.be/eD52OlkKfNs

Edit: Funny, didn't read entire thread and saw this was linked as an example of WW hatred. Guess it's polarizing. Taking it on its own I can see the "smugness", but in the context of the episode, when he's trying to remember how he beat an opponent long ago, makes it more fun.

Clovis: I thought that Mulholland drive was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Not sure about anything else.

You will hate twin peaks then.

I see some people mentioning Firefly and Freaks and Geeks as the best one season show. Toss in "The Prisoner" and you have what I think are probably the top 3 one season shows ever.

Any more worth a mention?

iClaudius

breaking bad?

look at the date of the OP

Reading your opinion of The Practice, (which I have seen most of,) made me start watching Ally McBeal... its awesome! Thanks for a good thread Dom.

Ally McBeal makes me want to shoot myself in the head. The Practice is great though, at least the first 2 seasons. I could never stand David E. Kelley shows when he tried to get too funny. I also hated Picket Fences.

bump

Just thought I'd tell the complainers that yes, I did finally watch The Wire, and it was incredible. Not sure it would make my top 20, but it might.

LOL, nice seven-year bump!

And now that I have your attention...

Given that the original list is now 10+ years old, I'm curious to know if you'd bump any of the shows on the list for shows you've seen since then. And if so, which shows you'd switch out?

You've already stated that you're not sure if The Wire would make your list, but what about Breaking Bad or Mad Men? Would any others be under consideration?

"Hill Street Blues" still gets a spot no matter how much time passes.

Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul (can't separate them) would definitely be on the list now. Never did get into Mad Men, which is odd, since it literally has everything I would normally like.

Others that might make it:

Game of Thrones
Boardwalk Empire
The Americans
Fargo
Justified
Black Mirror
Mr. Robot
Counterpart


And i'm sure I'm missing some.

One thing I did with the original list was only concentrate on Network shows, except for The Sopranos, because HBO and other premium channels have an advantage over non-premium channels in that they can spend more money and make fewer episodes. The Sopranos still made a lot of episodes per season back then, so I included it.

Breaking Bad/Saul definitely make my list as well as Madmen. Those 2 with Deadwood, The Wire and The Sopranos are my top 5 in no particular order except Deadwood is #1.

Where does China Beach rank?

Terriers

Firefly was great....never watched China Beach.

All I can remember about China Beach was peak Dana Delaney, Hubba Hubba!

I thought Carnivale was one season, but it was two.

I also liked Dead Like Me, where Mandy Patinkin redeemed himself for inflicting Princess Bride on us, but that had a second season also.