lol he finally broke and resorted to attacking someone's sexuality like it's offensive or something.

Come on, crisp chexbaker, I expected more from you.

i didnt attack anyones sexuality im merely pointing out that being attracted to caitlyn jenner as a straight male is impossible. nothing wrong with being attracted to him. you think he's going to get a date with george clooney?

Rich - so your argument is,

your friend thought of having a sex reassignment surgery,
when he thought of this he was mentally ill,
therefore some part of the transgendered population is mentally ill.

IS that correct?

How does the part of the population described in this article, differ from people born without any genital or chromosomal abnormalities (please correct me if I am using any obtuse verbiage as I am self admittedly naive in this matter) that do not identify with the gender they were assigned at birth?

Here we enter into territory where it seems to be hard to find good data, but my sense is that there are not so many people who have no genital/chromosomal/endocrinal/etc "abnormalities'" who identify with a different gender than that they were assigned a gender a birth. That is, most of these issues stem from some disjunction between the social treatment of the individual and that individual's particular physiological makeup.

Interesting. So Rich is trying to assert that transgenderism is a result of a mental illness whereas you are saying it is most likely due to a physiological abnormality.



I would think it is perfectly logical, and understandable, for someone with a physiological abnormality to have an obfuscated understanding of their gender identity.

Do you think any distinction should be drawn between people of that portion of the transgenedered population and people who were born CIS and then later identify as transgendered?

And Maybe distinction is the wrong word, would people being born CIS be less accepted in the transgendered than those with a physiological abnormality?

Bro, the phrase for these people is "doods with boobs".

So I heard

I agree with you about the use of the word abnormal. Unfortunately in these contexts many are oversensitized. I simply mean to insist that abnormal is meant only in a statistical sense.

One should distinguish between mental illness and societally induced psychosis. To put a transverse example, victims of racism are not mentally ill, even if they can become unhinged by the experience. Obviously when one's physical integrity is at stake the issue is still more difficult.

All I am insisting is that before we have these discussions, we need people to be aware of what is really being discussed. The level of ignorance about what are intersex conditions (for lack of a good word) and their prevalence is incredible. Many of the problems for people who live with these conditions are consequences of the widespread ignorance about them. In particular, the idea that "choice" is the principle operative force. This ignorance becomes raw cruelty when coupled with bigoted ideas about gender and sexuality. I don't pretend to have the answers for how to deal with these situations, but it's clear that a flexible approach is needed, and that the decisions of those who are affected need to be given priority and respected, whether they make sense to guys with normal looking dicks or not.

Agreed on verbiage, and Rich's argument on transgender'd being a mental illness is just lol. His attempted use of a syllogism has an invalid conclusion, I tried to point this out and he has not responded.

I personally did not even know that people identifying as transgender consisted of those with chromosomal irregularities (better than abnormal?). I thought it was mainly people that were born as a male or female and wanted to be the other, which confirms my ignorance. I actually wanted to talk about this rationally so I could be more educated on the subject. This thread is prob not the best venue for that though.

lol, all white males think they are the only one who knows how the world works

what a sexist thing to say

racist too. but its ok to bash on white males right? gfy libtard.

still waiting here....

nobody answers my questions. not one person.

Generally because you're being highly defensive and antagonistic and refuse to budge even a little bit to view things from another point of view? Rips Vanwinkler, you gotta give a little to get a little!

So you won't answer mine when I am trying to clarify your position? What are you 8 years old?

So you just wanted to post your uneducated and ignorant point of view in a subject in a highly offensive manner and then refuse to engage in any debate about the merits of your argument.

SAD!

When I tried to learn a bit about what was really behind intersex/transgender/etc. I discovered that it is really very complicated. There is an amazing variety of unusual biological states that is directly related with the issue, and the idea that people "choose" everything is just laughable. They certainly can choose what gender they identify with, but their physiology is given to them; the problem comes when the gender they choose doesn't conform with the gender other people assign to their physiology. The classical premises, at least in the Christian world, were that the society imposes on them the gender it chooses, and that gender is a binary thing, male or female. Neither premise is viable in light of what is now known scientifically about human biology.

The ignorance about these things is tremendous because we are not educated about them. Also many of those pushing for awareness are reacting to lives full of stigmatization and social trauma. They focus on the identity aspect because ignorant people react badly to the strangeness of the underlying biological characteristics. Education would improve the situation a lot.

why do you think my view is uneducated and ignorant? where is the scientific proof of your views?? please post the link where transgenderism is proven to be anything other than mental disorder. just because a lot of people suffer from it and its accepted by a large section of society does not mean its not a mental disorder.

i have answered everyones questions and looked at every article and thought about every opinion and angle given to me. it seems everyone has an intractable position on this subject including myself.

this syllogism is illogical if thats what you are really trying to get at here mr. smartypants. cant fool me. "There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.'" -W

he was having a psychotic breakdown because of the problems with his penis and thinking of having a sex change was a symptom of his psychosis.

for everyone who thinks that bruce jenner is a woman, and not psychotic, do you find her attractive? do you think that sucking his dick is something a straight man would do? im obviously confused or you all are. if i think im something im not, would you all agree with me??

Tranny folk are simply chemically altered dudes...+ mentally unstable

Dont hate the messenger

answer this question or gtfo of the thread. is sucking caitlyns jenners dick something a straight man would do???

lol you all are so confused.

lol

Live and let live.