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View Poll Results: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?
Hell Yeah! 120 82.19%
You Mad Bro? 26 17.81%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-23-2016, 02:38 PM   #1
anuj22
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Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Lets discuss the pros and cons of having a payout structure that pays 10% places but with 5x min cash:

Pros:
i) Majority of players(more than 85%) wins more money than a tourney with normal payout structure
ii) Bad players/recs are likely to win more with this payout structure and so good for the ecosystem
iii) Less variance
iv) Less time taken to win 5x

Cons:
i) Final table payout is less
ii) Less Fewer players are paid
iii) No big jump in the payouts
iv) Bubble stalling


This is how the payout would look like for a $11 buy in tourney:


This is how the payout would look like for a $215 buy in tourney:



So
- Players who finishes in 14th-100th position in tourney with 5x min cash wins 51% of the prizepool
- Players who finishes in 14th-161th position in tourney with normal payout wins only 33.93% of the prizepool despite 61 more players getting paid

So guys what do you think of this payout structure? More players win in this payout structure and I believe bad players/recs will be getting those money as they are most likely to finish in those positons.

I’m not asking to replace all the normal payout with this one but it would be great to have one or two daily tourneys with min cash 5x times.

There has already been demand for 25% places paid tourneys in this thread and other threads as well. Its always good to have some varieties in the daily schedule.. not every tourney should have the same payout structure imo.

Edit: I have compared that payout with the one that is normally used in a $215 buy in Stars tourney.

Last edited by anuj22; 09-23-2016 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 09-23-2016, 03:44 PM   #2
ZFSB
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Personally, I'd love it. Payouts aren't even that different! but you get 5x for min cash, which is never a bad thing. Okay, 5th is $100 less for example (for $11 example), but the gap there is made up for by the extra $$$ every time you min cash, which is much more often than the times you finish 5th. win win imo,but not for everyone and will never happen
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Old 09-23-2016, 05:16 PM   #3
Smart_Guy
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

How about this


20% paid atleast twice the buyin.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:31 PM   #4
gettym
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

meh
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Old 09-25-2016, 03:47 PM   #5
anuj22
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

@smart_guy thats a cool payout too but I don't think its as appealing as the payout with $50 min cash. That min cash will get lot of players excited. Your payout is very similar to the standard stars payout except that 4-5% more are paid.
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Old 09-27-2016, 03:01 PM   #6
spud989
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Personally think it's a great idea for some tournaments (like the Bigs).
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:59 PM   #7
squire1888
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

would be awesome theyl prob make it 85% payout and 15% bust tho for having a good idea :|
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:31 AM   #8
Transcendence
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

The bubble stalling would be absurd but I actually like that payout structure quite a lot. A 5x min cash would result in a real sense of achievement when you cash and add a whole new element to the meta. It would also in turn help to offset bad days when you cash a bunch without any ultra deep finishes/final tables.

Would be cool to try it in a couple of tourneys on stars to see how people react to it. Maybe 1 low, 1 mid and 1 high stakes tournament to allow for an accurate reflection of the reaction to the payout structure. Guaging it across all levels. Either way, it's an interesting post.
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:26 AM   #9
neveren0ugh
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Naah 5x is way too much.

Another point is that bubbling a 5x min cash mtt will be so so frustrating it will be very -ev mentally longterm.
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:17 AM   #10
anuj22
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Yup 5x is big but this is what is going to make this tourney exciting. So far 29 people have voted in favor of 5x min cash while 8 people are against it, so clearly majority of people like this payout and would play. Its not like I'm asking every tourney's payout to be replaced with this payout, just 1 or 2 tourneys out of the 7000 tourneys that we get to play in a week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neveren0ugh View Post
Another point is that bubbling a 5x min cash mtt will be so so frustrating it will be very -ev mentally longterm.
Bubbling in any tourney is frustrating infact more in satellites but people still play satellites.

The only issue I can see this with payout would be bubble stalling. But Im sure there can be a solution to it. Like by not giving 45 seconds at the start of the tourney but only once we reach itm? And by reducing time for every action?
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Old 09-30-2016, 01:44 PM   #11
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

who told you it's fewer and not less my friend?
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Old 09-30-2016, 04:03 PM   #12
anuj22
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mashxx View Post
who told you it's fewer and not less my friend?
Be very careful, my friend. PokerStars now have an office in India and this job "Security Services Document Verification Specialist" is open
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:24 PM   #13
mashxx
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

do the needful
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:28 PM   #14
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

what makes you think recs would win more in this structure? sure, their average score will naturally be higher but you think the rec's roi would rise?
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Old 10-01-2016, 12:15 PM   #15
anuj22
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by watevs View Post
what makes you think recs would win more in this structure? sure, their average score will naturally be higher but you think the rec's roi would rise?
If you look at the payout of the final table of 5x min cash payout $215 buy in, total money awarded is $90,800 which is 45.4% of the total prizepool ($90,800/$200,000)

whereas in the standard stars payout structure, total money awarded in the final table is $112,831.42 which is 56.42% ($112,831.42/$200,000)

So this difference of 11% ($22,000) is being shared among 9 players only. And I believe better players (regs) are likely to finish in top 9 position in the long term. We obviously would want money to be won by weaker players. So instead of money going to just few players, that money from the final table will be spread among the rest of the players who made itm.

I believe rec's roi would slightly increase even though they will be cashing more but reaching itm would become little tougher. But I do believe a payout something like this would attract lot of recs.
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Old 10-01-2016, 12:17 PM   #16
anuj22
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mashxx View Post
do the needful
Will do the needful. But you do one thing, DON'T ever play satellites and 180s, it will get you in trouble, my friend.
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Old 10-01-2016, 10:39 PM   #17
SSSMforlife
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Interesting idea, I'd be open to it for sure. I don't think the stalling on button would increase significantly, but would encourage people to play slow and nitty, which would result in shorter average stacks.
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Old 10-11-2016, 11:44 AM   #18
timbuk40
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Could be fun. Kind of a blend of a satellite structure and MTT structure.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:26 AM   #19
SeaKing
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

I think a payout like this would be really good for huge field games on Sunday like the Bigs/Hots <= $11 and Sunday Storm/Double Deuce
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Old 10-14-2016, 01:46 PM   #20
Chuck Bass
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

These payouts have existed in regular tournaments for years, you guys just have to set foot outside the bottomless pit aka pokerstars
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Old 10-15-2016, 07:43 AM   #21
KingBustYou
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

looks kinda like a reverse bubble rush to me

recs will pbb treat it like a sat and stall till sub 1bb to get that cash where they pbb sattied in for
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Old 10-19-2016, 08:11 AM   #22
clapclap
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

I would prefer a 3x or 4x mincash, but 5x is still more fun than 2x.
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Old 01-05-2017, 06:23 PM   #23
anuj22
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Okay guys so this payout has made it to tcoop players' voice voting list and if you'd like to play this tourney, please cast your vote by going to Events > TCOOP > Players' Voice - Voting Booth and look for TCOOP-24: $215 NL Hold'em [1K Min-Cash] and register for it (you get your buy in back on 11th jan).



There are other options too like pkos, 3max zoom but cmon there are plenty of pkos and couple of 3 max zoom tourneys in the tcoop schedule already. This is our best chance to play a 5x min cash payout.
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:06 AM   #24
randomkid
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

highstakes high raked turbos with flat payout structures, that seams like a great investment.... NOT

mid-highstakes stalling would be such a pain in the ***, average stack would dwindel insanly. 120 left 100 itm you would have to be so so risk avers, I mean you would have to get at least 9th to double the mincash, thats absurd imo.

Who truely believes that satellites are fun and that we need to push MTTs torwards satellitish play?
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Old 01-06-2017, 09:31 AM   #25
anuj22
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Re: Would you ever play a tourney that pays 10% places but with min cash 5x times?

Well yeah that's one way to look at it but you're still getting $2.3k if you finish in 9th place.. thats like only $200 less than what we would have gotten in a standard stars payout structure and its not a big difference. You could still win 135 times of your buy in even with this payout.

As for the stalling, I'm sure that can be taken care of like by giving only 10 seconds at the start of tourney but once you make itm you get 60 sec more and also by giving less time to act for each move.

And this would actually make a great investment even with 10% rake on hs turbos.. as others have pointed out you can offset your bad days if you make few min cashes and even if you don't make finish deep. I don't think this payout is that absurd, sure there would be smaller avg stacks near the bubble but even that can be taken care of. I think we should definitely give it a try and see how it does.
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