in my opionion the moving process should be independent of sitting out players. players that get moved should be chosen randomly. doesnt matter if some players get moved for example 5 times and some 2 times in one tournament.

regarding playing experience: most players multitable anyway. they are not affected (they dont have to wait for cards because they play at their other tables in the meantime). Sitting out players are "free chips/money" for the other players at their tables as long as they sit out. Why would you try to take this advantage away and bring all sitting out players together at one table (if registration is still open and a new table is created) and give this advantage to players who get seated with them?
to increase playing experience for 1 or 2-tabling players there are probably much more effective ways.

Has to be quite a lot in some tournies, $1ks+ with a slow structure if you get a tough table could just sit out a few orbits and it'll be worth it. Does it really bother fun players that much that it has to depend on people sitting out? Couldn't you just do something like take random table of table with too many players, take next big blind, put as close as possible to BB on next table? Or even just take the directly equivalent position?

Right now you can sit out in late position and just sit in if you want to play. Actually sitting out and blinding out is about -17bb/100 pre ante.

Who?

I can't understand why anyone would want this process to be anything but completely random :S

From the swisher house obv

Thanks for chiming in!

(i) People would perhaps still find it profitable to choose to "sit out". And even if table balancing is the issue here, it is relevant to note that what PS calls "sitting out" is not actually sitting out [because if you pick up AA you can often "return" to the table].

(ii) I have a life... but designing such an algorithm to depend on a thing such as "sitting out" frequency [especially without informing players of this] annoys me a little bit per se.

Agree

Probably not a popular idea but...

(i)To avoid sitting out only to sit back in with big hand:

If you are dealt a hand and NOT sitting out, then you cannot sit out until your hand is folded. If you are dealt a hand while you ARE sitting out, you cannot play it. You must sit back in and wait for next hand.

(ii) To avoid sitting out to be moved to more profitable table/situation

Put in your ToS that it is now illegal. Players sitting out for x hands in one tournament while not sitting out (and playing) in another are automatically disqualified from all tournaments actively being played. x should be 30ish hands. Tournament funds won if caught during this illegal activity will be not be awarded.


*As with all PS punishment, case by case exemptions can always be made if after the fact the player can prove why he/she should not be punished.

But what about the rec player that's sitting out and doesn't even realize it if his tables are stacked. Him being blinded out is punishment enough imo. If they disqualified him from other tourneys after they were completed then others would get a bump in pay and if he argues that it's an accident then people would then lose the bump. Far too complicated.

The sit out until next hand is dealt is not a bad idea. But the best solution to this issue is just moving people when tables break with no consideration for if the guys sitting out or not.

Simple, when they are 2 hands away from meeting the disqualifying Xth hand, a message popups, bringing up the table that they are sitting out on. Sitting back in, to avoid the disqualification, automatically sets them back to 0 hands sitting out... so those attempting to take advantage of being moved do not gain said advantage.

I assume you've never multi-tabled or grinded for hours. I also assume you have no idea about software engineering and what it'd take to (God forbid) imply your ideas as opposed to what PS Mike offered.

(i) There's also this special thing called "5min break" every hour and if for example you're taking one while using 3rd party software to auto-register, the idea of not being able to sit-back immediately when you get back to grinding is just ****ing ******ed (Excuse my french but your idea is way worse than just "unpopular")

(ii) Please read post #74 again because it looks like you've missed it. PS has offered a solution and they're working on it. Punto.

Overall, I think your ideas are reminiscent of the spanish inquisition. It's not like we're talking punishing people for extreme cases of cheating ITT.

I for one did not expect the Spanish Inquisition.

Or just randomize the table switching maybe?

Sadly it's not working on my Spin n' Go tables...

+1

and how is that contributing to a positive game expirience?? positive game expirience for the sitting out players who are not there anyways? who makes such decisions? it's a simple problem, no need for a complicated solution.

No, a positive game experience for those who are not sitting out so they don't get moved as often.

is there that many players sitting out? especially if this "trick" will not work anymore? is getting moved 5% less even noticable?? (5% is just a guess maybe it is more like 1% of players sitting out).

what is the negative part about getting moved tables online again?

should be randomised completely...

I can see why Stars felt the need to create such a complex algorithm, and their heart was in the right place imo. They didn't want confused recreational players getting shifted around dozens of times per hour in huge-field tournaments, and wanted to ensure that the posting of blinds remained as equitable as possible especially around the bubble. They figured that moving the players who aren't actually playing would be a good way of minimising disruption, but of course it's turned out that such a system is open to abuse so they're changing it. No biggie.

As a side point I'm pretty cross with myself for never having figured this trick out!

It should be random. End of story

It def should be random or as close as possible.
I agree with your first point. Will stop a little bit of the scummy biz going on.

As soon as you create complex rules there will be some people who will look for the loopholes and exploit them. Just look at tax law for how NOT to do it.

Here there is absolutely no need to overcomplicate things. Your playing experience argument is off the mark. Recs aren't stupid, they don't need to be insulated against the "confusion" of changing tables. Pretty sure they realise that, for a tournament of 50, 100 or 1,000 tables of players to end up at one single final table, people are going to have to move. Adding an extra rule around some arbitrary number X of hands of sitting out, even if the value of that number X is not publicly known, adds to the complexity and is not necessary. Furthermore, it has the potential to recreate the very loophole you want to avoid. Don't repeat your albeit well-intentioned mistake, now you know the problem it has created.

If table switching is 100% random, without favour to any particular subset of players registered in the tournament, then there isn't a loophole for anyone to exploit.

Remember what that Johnson bloke said. KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid

This obv.

I'm amazed it wasn't random the whole time (and prolly stupid for never knowing this and using it myself).