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the 'sit out trick' on PokerStars the 'sit out trick' on PokerStars

10-06-2014 , 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooRareToDie
I have sent a long hate-mail to PS about taking Rafael Nadal as a pro, telling them that a doped up sissy, who fakes unjuries left and right when he gets beat up, is a terrible ambassador for the game...

I don't care about the sit-out thing at all, but Rafael Nadal is the nut-low, and should never have been hired, in the first place. Disgusting human being, he is.
I thought Nadal is very good in tennis esp on ground cover
the 'sit out trick' on PokerStars Quote
10-06-2014 , 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoGGz
This is actually interesting and I'd never heard about it. Absolutely will be using it as needed. Thanks for the heads up.
lol, gonna be really effective 2 tabling 20 buck mtts
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10-06-2014 , 07:47 AM
hey look anon poster takes a shot...
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10-06-2014 , 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostOstrich
I must be really stupid because I have no idea what this angle is
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10-06-2014 , 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26sk8er
lol, gonna be really effective 2 tabling 20 buck mtts
Beats 20 tabling 2 buck mtts
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10-06-2014 , 11:02 AM
sometimes i sit out because im a superuser
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10-06-2014 , 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by straykatbluz
Beats 20 tabling 2 buck mtts
no it ties it.
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10-06-2014 , 12:14 PM
I never play mtt's anymore but it's obviously absurd that you can sit out to increase your chances of moving tables - there is no reason not to fix it immediately and I can't imagine why anyone would be against fixing it unless they use it to gain an edge.
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10-06-2014 , 12:19 PM
It's not the biggest problem, but it's a poor software design that affects game integrity and i'd imagine can easily be fixed. There is no reason Stars shouldn't fix this ASAP. People complaining that their are bigger problems, that's irrelevant. There is no mandate that only the biggest problem at a given time should garner any attention.
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10-06-2014 , 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714
It's not the biggest problem, but it's a poor software design that affects game integrity and i'd imagine can easily be fixed. There is no reason Stars shouldn't fix this ASAP. People complaining that their are bigger problems, that's irrelevant. There is no mandate that only the biggest problem at a given time should garner any attention.
you mod?
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10-07-2014 , 11:16 AM
Is this a super mega level or theres actualy a sit out trick?
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10-07-2014 , 01:21 PM
Huh the amount of times it feels like sitouts get moved from my tables and I've shrugged it off as victims recall.
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10-07-2014 , 06:03 PM
I remember when it was first mentioned in a thread on here around 2 years ago maybe that I posted as a joke that I would just sit out to try to move from tough tables and now it seems that people are actually doing it. Can't believe people are actually doing it and it's supposedly working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvas
"If possible, the system tries to choose a player who has been moved less than others, or to choose a sitting out player."

OK so if I am at a particularly sick table and want to increase my chances of being moved then I should click sit out after every hand that I fold..?



Hypothetically

Last edited by pvas; 10-07-2014 at 06:22 PM. Reason: found the post from 2012
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10-07-2014 , 06:06 PM
Lol makes no sense for me
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10-07-2014 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamaman514
Is this a super mega level or theres actualy a sit out trick?
DOH!
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10-07-2014 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anuj22
Please note, when it comes to table balancing in tournament - the system tries to choose a player who has been moved less than others, or to choose a sitting out player.

There are two different times a player may be moved in a tournament. A single player may be moved by himself to correct a table imbalance, or an entire table may be "broken up" and distributed to the empty seats at other tables.

When a player is chosen to be moved individually (such as one table has only 7 players, while others have nine), we try to minimize the number of moves. If possible, the system tries to choose a player who has been moved less than others, or to choose a sitting out player.

A table break happens as soon as enough empty seats are available to eliminate one table from play. If your table is chosen to be broken, the re-seating algorithm is as it would be in a brick and mortar room. It is completely random, as if seat cards were thrown face down in the middle of the table.

While this does mean that it may be possible to move right back into the blinds having just paid them, it also means you can move from "under the gun" to a late position. All players are subject to the same random chance in such a move.

Once the player to be moved is chosen, we try to find a seat available for that player that has a relative position to the button close to the one that the player was at previously.

In summary, there are two fundamental goals that the table balancing system achieves, and they are:

a) to maintain blind position
b) to distribute movement evenly between players.

Please also be aware of our tournament rule #16 which states:

"As players are eliminated from the tournament, the software will “break” tables to fill available empty seats. The re-seating of players at broken tables is performed randomly and, although rare, may result in a player having to post multiple big blinds in a row."

Sometimes players may need to pay more blinds than usual, but at other times they will also avoid the blinds more often than they might otherwise expect. Overall however, we have received very positive feedback since implementing this system.

For full details of our tournament rules, please visit the PokerStars website:

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tournaments/rules/

We trust this clarifies how players are moved in our tournaments, and we wish you the best of luck at the tables.
found this on page two of this very thread

Spoiler:
seems to be a standard ps support reply. don't know if anju copied it from that thread too, or from another ps reply

Last edited by AnotherMakiavelli; 10-07-2014 at 06:55 PM.
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10-07-2014 , 07:27 PM
For your viewing pleasure try 100 posts per page.
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10-08-2014 , 01:23 AM
This must be a huge advantage in games like 3x turbo rebuy sats and similar formats, if sitting out after you fold UTG or UTG +1 gives you a better chance of moving and avoiding the bb while not even missing a hand.
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10-08-2014 , 01:34 AM
Explains why half the field was sitting out in the wcoop main event while playing on other tables.
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10-08-2014 , 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherMakiaveli
found this on page two of this very thread

Spoiler:
seems to be a standard ps support reply. don't know if anju copied it from that thread too, or from another ps reply
Obviously that was a reply from ps support which I copied pasted here, I forgot to add quotation marks.
Spoiler:
And my name is Anuj not Anju
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10-08-2014 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anuj22
Obviously that was a reply from ps support which I copied pasted here, I forgot to add quotation marks.
Spoiler:
And my name is Anuj not Anju
Spoiler:
sorry Anuj! it was too late yesterday
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10-09-2014 , 05:31 AM
Concerning people choosing to "sit out" when picking up AA in the bb: If a player is away from the table when the hand is dealt and his/her hand still isn't mucked, then isn't showing a "Sitting out" sign misleading? Just do it as in live poker. [Also, compare with how Party relying on people not to abuse Disconnect Protection at the PLO-tables was a terrible idea.]

Concerning the possibility to increase your chances of switching tables by "sitting out": I can't think of any reason why the algorithm should be like that, not to mention that [ironically?] such an algorithm would lead to people "sitting out".

You've had more than ten years to fix mistakes in the software...

Last edited by Tlick; 10-09-2014 at 05:50 AM.
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10-09-2014 , 12:10 PM
The issue being discussed here is table balancing in tournaments.

Table balancing is the process of moving players from tables having more players to tables with fewer players so that all tables in a tournament are populated as equally as possible. This balancing consists of a sequence of operations, each of which moves a single player. At present the first factor is whether a player is sitting out. It was set up this way in order to minimize the impact to the playing experience. If a player is sitting out, they presumably are not playing, and therefore moving tables has no impact to their playing experience.

As implied in the original post, there turns out to be an exploit here that we didn’t foresee when the table balancing algorithm was designed. Some players have come to realize that sitting out increases their chances of being moved to a different table, and use this exploit when they want to be moved.

It has only recently come to our attention in PokerStars Poker Room Management that some people are exploiting the sitting out portion of the table balancing algorithm. Since it came to our attention a few weeks ago, we have been working on a change. I think it is worth noting here that our desire to change this has nothing to do with the fact that it was “made public” in the OP. Rather, our desire to make a change was and is driven by the desire to offer the best poker experience possible.

The idea that we’re currently pursuing is to simply change the sitting out portion of the algorithm to be x number of hands. With such a change, sitting out will only be considered for a table change if that sitting out has happened for x consecutive hands. X can be any number we wish. The higher the number, then the less exploitable this becomes, but we would want to choose a number low enough that sitting out status could still be considered, due to the aforementioned desire to minimize impact to the playing experience. If you have feedback regarding that number, please share it.

Like any software change, this one will require time to write, test, and implement, but the ball is rolling.

Regards,
Mike Jones
Tournaments Team Manager
PokerStars Poker Room Management

Last edited by PokerStars MikeJ; 10-09-2014 at 12:24 PM.
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10-09-2014 , 12:36 PM
Sounds like a good change. Doesn't even need to be that many hands and it ruins the play.
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