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Old 09-27-2016, 02:44 PM   #1
spud989
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Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

Hi MMTC! I've had some ideas about a possible series and wanted to share them with others/hopefully stimulate some wider discussion on what it could achieve. I regularly follow the COOP feedback threads/MTT schedule discussion stuff and know that this is a popular thing for discussion in there. Here goes!

--------

Mini-WCOOP has demonstrated demand for something that sits between SCOOP-L and SCOOP-M and sort of straddles them both at the upper and lower ends. The Mountain series also had something for a the low-stakes players. But the whole idea of low-stakes is that people eventually want to climb out of them, to an extent. The series needs to offer an incentive to that - either in the form of some buy-in scaling or in the form (preferably of satellites to high-placed finishers). That way you encourage people to play higher, but without being irresponsible - it remains about the challenge.

My rough ideas.

The 'Climb the low/mid-stakes Mountain Series' (see what I did there) should range from 5.50r to a 50 main event, as per the recent M-WCOOP main event. But you should be rewarded for two things: high levels of play and doing well. There should be a 109 event in respect of this (with special entry only)

- Deposit bonus (hold on Amaya suits, don't get your knickers in a twist just yet). This should depend on amount. Deposit $50 pre-series and register events and receive the intro 5.50r ticket free. Deposit $100 and receive your 11 Sunday Storm SE ticket free. etc.
- Satellite rewards part 1. You could combine this with the above. E.g. Depositing 100 gets you a 11 satellite ticket to a special satellite to the 50 main event.
- Satellite rewards part 2. This should reward good play. Part of the prize pool should be set aside to boosting you up the levels. So anyone making a certain stage of a tournament (be it top 5%, 1%, 0.1%, FT, etc.) is rewarded with a ticket to a higher level. These tickets are must play. Therefore the marketing is that you can theoretically spend 5.50 on the initial event and run it all the way through the buy-in levels of the series, even if you don't make the FT and make the big money normally required to feel comfortable doing this utilising proper bankroll management. As the tickets are effectively free shot takes.
- Satellite rewards part 3. You could make the 'higher level' reward a 109 entry tournament. This could act as a 'high roller' for the series. So anyone making the top 0.1% of a 5.50r also gets a 109 entry ticket free, for example, which is a must play. This should happen in every tournament of the series.
- Satellite rewards part 4. Here's the good bit. The 109 bonus high roller event is only played by those winning tickets in the 5.50, 11 and 22 events. So the regs can't just pretend it's a super big 109. So it's more likely to have a higher proportion of recs (as not all 109 regs will want to play 5.50-22 dollar tournies just to get tickets) and therefore keeps money in the poker ecosystem at the lower end - which was a stated aim of the Stars revamps.

Have it over winter/maybe even replace TCOOP (or even run alongside) as recent posts show it isn't as popular as WCOOP/SCOOP. It should take place over 1.5/2 weeks, I think, initially. I've only included NL on the schedule because I don't play anything else and know nothing about them, but obviously you'd want to put other events in there too. Here's my attempt at a schedule:

[all times GMT, btw, but I've followed your rough patterns]
Day 1 (Thurs), 8th Dec
- 3pm, 5.50r intro event (40k gtd)
- 4pm, Big 7.50 special edition (40k gtd)
- 6pm, 11$ Micro Thrill PSKO (75k gtd)

Day 2 (Fri), 9th Dec
- 5pm, 16.50 Mini Weekender (Phase) (100k gtd)
- 6pm, Big 22 SE (80k gtd)
- 7pm, Fast Friday $22 Turbo (50k gtd)

Day 3 (Sat), 10th Dec
- 3pm, 11$ 1R1A special (75k gtd)
- 4pm, Saturday Eliminator 27$ SE (100k gtd)
- 5pm, 16.50 Mini Weekender (Phase) (100k gtd)
- 6pm, Saturday 3max zoom PSKO 33$ (100k gtd)

Day 4 (Sun), 11th Dec
- 2pm, 11$ Mini Kickoff SE (100k gtd)
- 4pm, 22$ Mini Warm-up PSKO (250k gtd)
- 5pm, 16.50 Mini Weekender (Phase) DAY 2 (100k gtd)
- 6pm, 11$ Sunday Storm SE (350k gtd)

Day 5 (Mon), 12th Dec
- Can't think of decent ideas for Mondays!
-
-
-

Day 6 (Tue), 13th Dec
- 2pm, Bounty Builder 7.50 SE (40k gtd)
- 4pm, Bounty Builder 44 SE (100k gtd)
- 6pm, Bounty Builder 33 SE (100k gtd)
- 7pm, 11$ Mini Super Tuesday (75k gtd)

Day 7 (Wed), 12th Dec
- 3pm, 11$ 1R1A special (75k gtd)
- 5pm, 22$ Win the Button (50k gtd)
- 6pm, Hot 11 SE (50k gtd)
- 7pm, 22$ Battle Royale Mini SE (150k gtd)

Day 8 (Thur), 12th Dec
- 3pm, 11r (50k gtd)
- 4pm, Big 7.50 special edition (50k gtd)
- 6pm, 11$ Micro Thrill PSKO (100k gtd)
- 7pm, 22$ Moderate Thrill (!) PSKO (150k gtd)

Day 9 (Fri), 12th Dec
- 5pm, 33$ Bigger Weekender (Phase) (200k gtd)
- 6pm, Big 22 SE (120k gtd)
- 7pm, Fast Friday $33 Turbo (80k gtd)

Day 10 (Sat), 12th Dec
- 3pm, 16.5$ 1R1A special (75k gtd)
- 4pm, Saturday Eliminator 27$ SE (100k gtd)
- 5pm, 33$ Bigger Weekender (Phase) (200k gtd)
- 6pm, Saturday 8max Win the Button 44$ (100k gtd)

Day 11 (Sun), 12th Dec
- 2pm, 11$ Mini Kickoff SE (125k gtd)
- 4pm, 22$ Mini Warm-up (300k gtd)
- 5pm, 33$ Bigger Weekender (Phase) DAY II (200k gtd)
- 6pm, 11$ Sunday Storm SE (500k gtd)
- 7pm, 50$ Main Event (3 day, FT on the Tues) (500k gtd)

Day 12 (Mon), 13th Dec
- 6pm Bonus 109 event for people in the top 0.x% of each event
- Main event Day 2 playing down to final 9

Day 13 (Tue), 14th Dec
- Main Event FT



Other special events:

- A 11$ phase event running every day leading up to a final Day 2 on the last Sunday (possibly 3rd day/FT on the Monday) which should aim to crack 250k. In exactly the same way as the 10k payday works.
- New depositor only satellites. Let new players get a chance of qualifying for the bigger end of the events for a few dollars against players of a similar skill. They would be thrilled to get in a 50 dollar event for 11 dollars when you take out the better low/midstakes places who might populate lots of satellites.


Other stuff:
- "Who the hell are you and why should anyone listen to you?" A: I'm nobody! I just would love to see a proper series at this buy-in level and I'm exactly the sort of rec-but-keen player Stars should be targeting with this.
- "You have too much time on your hands!" A: I wish.
- "This is a great idea! Can I send you a small tip on Stars to show my appreciation for it?!" A: of course!
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:09 PM   #2
playr
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

i think lowmidseries needs to happen with new tournaments for the series only, not special ones from the regular schedule

something like mini wcoop could work, just with buyins from $11 to $55, with rebuys from $5 plus $109 main

Last edited by playr; 09-27-2016 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:30 PM   #3
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

a low/mid-stakes series should run like wcoop with new events for the most part and a few special ones like mini thrill and mini super tuesday but as 2 day events
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:03 PM   #4
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Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

Great idea, send the link to PokerstarsLuke to take a look at. While not precisely what I d love to see in a midstake series it's def good enough to get me playing through this. What I think would be slightly better:

More mixed games on their respective days of the week

More new mtts rather than special editions. The dailies will blow up next to them regardless. It's midstakes we are talking about that's the biggest market share of players right now. We are thirsting for EXTRA rather than special names, and the mini wcoop proved it. There was 90k entries into the 1$ phase, 20k entries into the 55$ main with a 20% of that guarantee 15k in every 11$ Holdem event etc.

I think the main should be 109$ with tickets to it for every finisher winning over 1500$ in the preliminary events á la winamax poker. It's a great idea that works time and time again. I also think he final Sunday should be slightly bigger with a 55$ event as well as the 109$ one. Possibly just couple this series with a red spade open on the first Sunday and then the main on the second one? There s room and this needs to happen asap.

Thanks for the ground work OP my fingers are crossed
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:44 AM   #5
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

Add nice starting stacks with deep structures and you've got a winner here imo. Don't want to play bounty builders' structure if it's in an event like this

Also 6-max tournies is quite popular on Mondays iirc

Not a new idea, but nevertheless a great idea, thanks for setting up the thread!
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:15 AM   #6
playr
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

as it would be called somehow LOW MID stakes series, it will focus for LOW and MEDIUM stakes, it will be with 2tier, one for LOW and one for MEDIUM.
run for two weeks from sunday to sunday., deep structures, mostly 2day events. most events could run with one reentry enabled. some case two.

so i think daily 3events with two tiers easily feasible

CET times

SUNday
xx:xx - Event 00-LOW: $7.50 phase 1 1 run through a week, phase 2 every sunday
xx:xx - Event 00-MED: $22 phase 1 run through a week, phase 2 every sunday

16:00 - Event 01-LOW: $8.80 20k Rebuys [1R1A]
16:00 - Event 01 MED: $22 50k Rebuys [1R1A]

18:00 - Event 02-LOW: $11 50k (Re-Entries Max: 2) MARATHON EVENT
18:00 - Event 02-MED: $33 120k (Re-Entries Max: 2) MARATHON EVENT

20:00 - Event 03-LOW: $16.50 60k 8-Max PROGKO
20:00 - Event 03-MED: $55 100k 8-Max PROGKO


MNDAY
16:00 - Event 04-L: $7.50 some omaha
16:00 - Event 04-M: $22 some omaha

18:00 - Event 05-L: $13.50 40k win the button
18:00 - Event 05-M: $33 60k win the button

20:00 - Event 06-L: $16.50 Heads-Up
20:00 - Event 06-M: $55 Heads-Up


TUE
16:00 - Event 07-L: $5.50 25k rebuys
16:00 - Event 07-M: $22 50k rebuys

18:00 - Event 08-L: $11 6max variable times
18:00 - Event 08-M: $55 6max variable times

20:00 - Event 09-L: $xx some other format
20:00 - Event 09-M: $xx some other format


WED
16:00 - Event 10-L: $8.80 30k rebuys action hour
16:00 - Event 10-M: $22 50k rebuys action hour

18:00 - Event 11-L: $16.50 35k Bubble Rush
18:00 - Event 11-M: $33 50k Bubble Rush

20:00 - Event 12-L: $11 70k Ultra deep Turbo
20:00 - Event 12-M: $22 100k Ultra deep Turbo


THU
16:00 - Event 13-L: $7.50 Players' Choice
16:00 - Event 13-M: $22 Players' Choice

18:00 - Event 14-L: $11 90k PROGKO
18:00 - Event 14-M: $55 150k PROGKO

20:00 - Event 15-L: $xx some other format
20:00 - Event 15-M: $xx some other format


FRI
16:00 - Event 16-L: $11 NL Hold'em DEEP 3day event, FT on sunday, extended latereg
16:00 - Event 16-M: $33 NL Hold'em DEEP 3day event, FT on sunday, extended latereg

18:00 - Event 17-L: $16.50 20k Shootout
18:00 - Event 17-M: $55 50k Shootout

20:00 - Event 18-L: $16.50 8 Max win the button
20:00 - Event 18-M: $22 8 Max win the button


SAT
16:00 - Event 19-L: $xx some other format
16:00 - Event 19-M: $xx some other format

18:00 - Event 20-L: $16.50 8 max MIX MAX PART 1 part 2 6max on sunday
18:00 - Event 20-M: $55 8 max MIX MAX PART 1 part 2 6max on sunday

20:00 - Event 21-L: $xx some other format
20:00 - Event 22-M: $xx some other format





and so on
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:31 AM   #7
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

22-109 imo, micro millions and mini wcoop catered for events 11 and under
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:39 AM   #8
playr
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

then we couldnt call it LOW-MID stakes series. LOW MID is from $5 to $99. just look at the client.

$109 is just high for lowstakes guys, and this series would been for them, not again one for the highstakes guys, there is 3 coop for them. come on.

may it could be $11 to $82, but focusing mainly $11 $22,$33,$55 that is the buyinrange is missing form all the series. that is what we need. a series with these buyin ranges only

but defitenly $11s needed too. even micromillions has zero $11s event last time, and doubt it will change for next series
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:49 AM   #9
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

The best buy in range should be between 11$ to 55$ for most of them, with 7.50 rebuy and 75-85$ Main event like the Mini Ftops used to be. To include 3-4 high rollers of 215$ should be fun for example a NL heads up, NL 8 max, 6max Omaha and 8 game.

Imo the schedule should look like scoop low with a wide variety of tourneys and poker variants for 2 two weeks with 4 tournaments a day maybe 5 on sunday.

Playing once or twice a week, maybe more when a serie is run, I m not a big fan of 2 days event. For me the tournament structure should not exceed 12-13hours like the Sunday million. Or if you want to do it 2 days events, maybe day 2 should have the last 3 to 1 table remaining. Exception for the main obv.

4 events a day with:

3pm GMT, 12-13h length with maybe last 3 tables or FT on day 2
5pm GMT, 12-13h length with maybe last 3 tables or FT on day 2
7pm GMT, 12-13h length with maybe last 3 tables or FT on day 2
9pm GMT, 6-7h length 1 day turbo event

What do you think?
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:01 AM   #10
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

AmayaStars is alergic to promotions that attracts regulars in detriment of recreationals
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:25 AM   #11
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

a midstakes series would be amazing and alot of fun, and would attract a tonne of players during the series. Pls do it!
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:35 PM   #12
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

i think the tiers would be nice but main should b 109$ and 22$ or sth.
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:39 PM   #13
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

Tiers would be great, but I don't think they'll do it - Bryan would say it would "SCOOPify it"

I realise my timings/lack of variety in my ideas are way, way off. But I hope things like mini weekender phase tournies/special satellites/tickets to bigger events as prizes can work their way in. I really think they would work
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:40 PM   #14
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by blakkman08 View Post
Possibly just couple this series with a red spade open on the first Sunday and then the main on the second one? There s room and this needs to happen asap.

Thanks for the ground work OP my fingers are crossed
Forgot about this bit too. Red Spade Open tournies were great - hasn't been one in so long
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Old 09-28-2016, 01:01 PM   #15
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

22-109 imo, weekender is the nuts for being a HR too.
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Old 09-28-2016, 04:36 PM   #16
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Mick00 View Post
22-109 imo, micro millions and mini wcoop catered for events 11 and under
Exactly this. We don't need tiers - I expect there'd be plenty of satellites for micro/ low players to have a go at joining us anyway.
Micro players, mini players, and high players have already had their own series - the gap is for mid-stakes (see all the +1s in the WCOOP thread).

I know Bryan said that
Quote:
no amount of requesting it will make it happen
but surely if enough people are on the same page requesting this then Pokerstars might actually notice all the potential profit staring them in the face...

Heh, what am I saying. Our MOP series is about as likely to happen as Luke adding a mid-stakes 'Weekender' to the schedule, maybe at 2:30pm GMT
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:15 PM   #17
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

I'll add in what I said in Luke's thread:

"...a mid-stakes ish tournament series could be a really good idea and I would imagine it would be well received (who would turn down another series?) I believe there is room in the schedule and there is definitely a gap for it - since MM's is now really a MICRO tournament series ($5.50 highest BI barring the ME).

In terms of dates:

January ~ TCOOP
February
March ~ MM ran here in 2015 *potential gap here*
April
May ~ SCOOP
June
July ~ MM ran here in 2016
August
September ~ WCOOP
October
November ~ * potential gap here (for a new tournament series)*
December

In terms of buyins:

TCOOP: largely $27-$215 (+ a few $7.50R,1 $530,1 $700,1 $2,100)
MM (2015 & before): largely $2.20-$11 (+$0.11+R,$22)
MM (2016): largely $1.10-$5.50 (+$0.11+R,$22)
SCOOP: largely $27-$2,100 (+ 5 $11, 1 $10,000, 1 $21,000
WCOOP: largely $215-$2,100 (+ 1 $51,000, 1 $5,200, 1 $10,300 etc.)

If we take out the "old" MM (2015 & before), we are left with:

$1.10-$5.50 MM
. . . . . . . . *$5.50-$27 gap*
. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . $27-$215 TCOOP
. . . .. . . .. . .. . .. . . . $27-$2,100 SCOOP
. . .. .. . . .. . .. . . . .. . . . . $215-$2,100 WCOOP

When you look in the client, under the tournaments > low tab you see: $5.50-$16.50 tournaments (personally i think $5.50 - $22 would work best in terms of a tournament series). This is exactly the type of audience you could captivate with this. MM covers off the 'micro' tab, SCOOP covers off 'medium' & 'high' tab, WCOOP is 'high' ofc, and TCOOP is 'medium' & 'high'. I don't think there is any question of whether this series would be a success, the sunday mini million gets ~ around $175,000 pp every single week. the MM ME always beats it's $1M guarantee. Both of these are $22 tournaments, which shows this buyin range is definitely the "sweet-spot". Storm gets $200k-$250k weekly, $11 phase beats $100k every week now among loads of other great tournaments. Not to mention that the $11 phase tournament during SCOOP got a near $1M pp which was unreal - the demand is there!

Each series has it's own personality and I know you would want to preserve that. TCOOP is a turbo series. SCOOP has L,M,H. WCOOP is ultimate high BI series. MM is for micros. The new series would definitely not encroach on any of these. In addition, I know EPT is like August, right? and WSOP June ish so March/November seem to be the perfect slots for it. MM successfully ran March last year, so that shows that it is a good slot."
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Old 09-29-2016, 04:51 AM   #18
playr
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

$5.50 - $22

could be a huge one too. possibly the biggest series of all time, i think they know it too, yet i doubt it will happen
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Old 09-29-2016, 01:18 PM   #19
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

I personally dont see any reason going down as low as 5,50, because the mini-wcoop already covers the 5,50-11 buyin range pretty well
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Old 09-29-2016, 05:06 PM   #20
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

11-55

+1

Main can be 100
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Old 09-29-2016, 06:06 PM   #21
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

$22 - $215 winter series with tons of events would be the nuts
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Old 09-29-2016, 09:28 PM   #22
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Spade Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by blakkman08 View Post
Great idea, send the link to PokerstarsLuke to take a look at.
I'm sure that Luke would do a great job with such a thing - or pretty much anything on which he works for that matter, but you may have noticed by now that the Championship series and the main schedule run differently from each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cznsnowy91 View Post
a midstakes series would be amazing and alot of fun, and would attract a tonne of players during the series. Pls do it!
It's being discussed. The one thing that I can tell you for certain is that it won't be happening this calendar year. There simply isn't enough time remaining to plan it out properly, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Urchin View Post
Bryan wrote "no amount of requesting it will make it happen"

I know Bryan said that but surely if enough people are on the same page requesting this then Pokerstars might actually notice all the potential profit staring them in the face...
Yes, that's what I wrote, and it remains valid.

Guys, we're discussing this. We've been discussing something along these lines for a while now. Exciting things are coming, of that I can assure you. Exactly what shape those things will take, I can't say for certain right now, but I can tell you that said shape won't be decided or extensively developed (in terms of overall structure, framework, etc) in a thread on TwoPlusTwo (or any other forum). We're always, always listening to and reading feedback, but for such things as the development of a new major series there are many items to put into place, many considerations to take into account, etc... and it just can't happen in a matter of weeks... not if it's to be done correctly... again, if it happens at all. I'm still not promising anything.

Having said that, I'm asking you to be patient (I know, I know...) and to have a little faith. We came up with SCOOP, we developed TCOOP as it was being suggested by about 60 people (both internal and external) and had been kicked around for nearly two years previously, we've made changes to the things we've offered over the years which are legion. I doubt very seriously that anything we create off of what seems to be very clear demand for a mid-stakes series will happen fast enough for anyone posting to this thread, but I can absolutely assure you - and this is something that those of you with sufficient history should know from experience - that when/if we do create such a series, it will absolutely blow your socks clean off.

When/if I have more information which I'm able to share, I'll be glad to do so. Until then, please... patience...

Last edited by BryanS-PS; 09-29-2016 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 09-29-2016, 10:17 PM   #23
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

what about FTOPS and mini FTOPS ? would be nice to remind us that Full Tilt brand is not dead , once a year.

FTOPS in november-december and midstakes series in march...one time !
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Old 09-29-2016, 10:38 PM   #24
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Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanS-PS View Post
I'm sure that Luke would do a great job with such a thing - or pretty much anything on which he works for that matter, but you may have noticed by now that the Championship series and the main schedule run differently from each other.
sure but this doesne *neccessarily* have to be a xCOOP. its more like the knockout week u ran right around this time last year or the mountain series which, as far as i can recall was posted by luke. lets call this one a tie bryan
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Old 09-29-2016, 11:00 PM   #25
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Spade Re: Pokerstars possible Low/Mid-stakes Winter series ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by blakkman08 View Post
sure but this doesne *neccessarily* have to be a xCOOP. its more like the knockout week u ran right around this time last year or the mountain series which, as far as i can recall was posted by luke. lets call this one a tie bryan
I wasn't arguing the point, nor would I in a forum (or anywhere else for that matter). In any case, the way I've been thinking of it has been along the lines of an annual series along the lines of TCOOP, if it happens. But like I said, we'll have to wait, see, and be patient. These things take time.
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