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Old 03-22-2019, 10:34 AM   #12651
coon74
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

Luke is on the Discord, but there might be others monitoring this thread.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:28 PM   #12652
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

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That was a Robin Hood gesture - taking EV from good regs who frequent FTs and giving it to bad ones who cash often enough but get destroyed on the way to the FT I might even be able to show a profit sattying into major $22s later this year
ya, they are rewarding the players that make the game playing experience miserable for the majority of the players that want to play poker. As mentioned before by me in this thread deliberate stalling has noticeably increased and it's due to the stupid bubble dynamics that Stars has inserted into their structures. The second bubble after the initial ITM bubble is almost as significant as the first bubble in alot of their tournaments. After taking away all that money from the final table to pay out these lame earlier bubble jumps it creates all these scummy grimy players trying to push out their low single digit ROIs in these MTTs by abusing their time banks. It's ridiculous and makes the playing experience much less exciting by anybody with open eyes.

They are entitled to make the changes they choose and it's their company but in the case of the changing of their tourney structures to the ones current it's almost as if they removed the homerun from baseball or are trying to re-invent the wheel, per say. it's just dumb and if other sites eventually pick up traction people will surely stop playing MTTs on PokerStars in their current format.
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:39 AM   #12653
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

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ya, they are rewarding the players that make the game playing experienceif other sites eventually pick up traction people will surely stop playing MTTs on PokerStars in their current format.
You still believe in that? 888 imo got more attention through streamers but in the end attracted mostly regs but never gained much traction among (net depositing)recs. If its not a PKO 888 has a hard time filling their more optimistic guarantees. I just dont see a real breakthrough happening anymore for the daily grind(in the small stakes at least).
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Old 03-23-2019, 01:14 PM   #12654
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

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ya, they are rewarding the players that make the game playing experience miserable for the majority of the players that want to play poker. As mentioned before by me in this thread deliberate stalling has noticeably increased and it's due to the stupid bubble dynamics that Stars has inserted into their structures.
Indeed, measures against stalling must be taken urgently.

I suggest a partial all-in shootout near the bubble E.g. when 25% of the initial field is left, pause the dealing, take the bottom 30% of the remaining players by stack size (7.5% of the initial field) to special 'bubble judgment' tables and put them all-in there until the bubble bursts (3 hands will be enough), then reseat the survivors back to the normal tables. The shortest stacks will have a low chance of surviving the auto-all-ins, and larger ones will have a high chance, so there will be less incentive to stall before those.

For non-winner-take-all satellites, it's even easier - start the all-in shootout when the # of remaining players is 1.5 times the money zone (rounded up), and proceed until it's known who's won the seats.

Last edited by coon74; 03-23-2019 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 12:37 PM   #12655
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

An example of a technically easier innovation is what I call a 'Sandwich Bubble Rush': 8-minute levels with small timebanks until the end of late reg (or until the player count drops to 1.5 times the prize zone), then 3-minute levels with much shorter time to act until the bubble bursts, then 12-minute ITM with dramatically increased timebanks and 15-minute at the FT.

Last edited by coon74; 03-24-2019 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:08 PM   #12656
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

So, in response to Euro players saying the Sunday Million is too late starting, they've moved it to an hour later.
Genius.FFS
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:29 PM   #12657
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

ps.es lost like 200k because it was only 3,4k entry to the 1m gtd
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:37 AM   #12658
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

https://www.pokerstars.com/en/blog/2...7-180120.shtml

In case someone wants to know about SCOOP - 12-27 May,phases begin 15 April.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:40 AM   #12659
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

https://gyazo.com/2422f14c6b9dcb66f5e32186feb09588

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Old 03-25-2019, 08:42 AM   #12660
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

Oh my

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:42 AM   #12661
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

lol
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:49 PM   #12662
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

Sunday Million Bounty is a test.
With 109$ buy in it's hard to score 1M GTD every week.Summer is coming too and the only way to maintain 1M is with bounties.
This week will be a test to see that it will totally smash the GTD and this is a viable option for summer months.
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:59 PM   #12663
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

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Sunday Million Bounty is a test.
With 109$ buy in it's hard to score 1M GTD every week.Summer is coming too and the only way to maintain 1M is with bounties.
This week will be a test to see that it will totally smash the GTD and this is a viable option for summer months.
OK Luke, Thanks.
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:28 AM   #12664
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

as i previously wrote in this thread after scoop will be gg stars, rip, with those payouts and artificiality pumped first places, in summer when there are not huge fields, those payouts and mtts will crush as house of cards and less and less people every day will play mtts on stars after scoop which will result with less and less people coming back to stars after summer #ongame
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Old 03-26-2019, 04:44 AM   #12665
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

On that sunday many MTTs seem KO, hopefully its just one time thing.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:32 AM   #12666
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

Apparently we need more KO tournaments.
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Old 03-26-2019, 06:55 AM   #12667
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

I was wondering, if you played a 100BI BRM for Stars MTT years ago, how many BI would you use now that the payouts are ~20% field?
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Old 03-26-2019, 07:25 AM   #12668
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

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I was wondering, if you played a 100BI BRM for Stars MTT years ago, how many BI would you use now that the payouts are ~20% field?
more I guess, since 90% of payouts doesnt improve your BRM much, and only top5 improves your BRM significantly. I even wont start about how artificially pumped first spots is.

Btw, is there any regular daily MTT left without this retarted payout structure?
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:42 AM   #12669
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

I haven't run the numbers, but the flat payouts do reduce the BR requirements substantially if you manage to switch to a high-ITM style (tightening up before the money) without losing much EV, though you'll need to move down more often with looser BRM. If you keep aiming at the 1st place while somehow maintaining the same EV as before, then the BRM doesn't change much.
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:33 AM   #12670
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

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OK Luke, Thanks.
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:27 AM   #12671
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

rip
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:19 AM   #12672
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

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Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
I haven't run the numbers, but the flat payouts do reduce the BR requirements substantially if you manage to switch to a high-ITM style (tightening up before the money) without losing much EV, though you'll need to move down more often with looser BRM. If you keep aiming at the 1st place while somehow maintaining the same EV as before, then the BRM doesn't change much.
Yeah, something along the lines of this. To be clear, a lot of the money that you can win now in the last 13-20% tier comes from the FT, mainly places 2-3 but also the other places . This means getting ITM dozens of times with the new payouts is the same like getting to FT (and busting early) once on the old payout. This flattens variance. Also the payjumps except for #1 are so small that this might more play like a satellite up to certain points with 20% paid and a WTA structure for ~100 BI on the FT. So unless we are talking places #4-9999 or even #2-3+ the variance should be way lower which should count for most of our games we play since we just can't win every god damn bowl.

So pre bubble you can play almost satellite style and after the bubble you switch to WTA
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Old 03-27-2019, 03:17 PM   #12673
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

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Originally Posted by zhukaSS View Post
more I guess, since 90% of payouts doesnt improve your BRM much, and only top5 improves your BRM significantly. I even wont start about how artificially pumped first spots is.

Btw, is there any regular daily MTT left without this retarted payout structure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
I haven't run the numbers, but the flat payouts do reduce the BR requirements substantially if you manage to switch to a high-ITM style (tightening up before the money) without losing much EV, though you'll need to move down more often with looser BRM. If you keep aiming at the 1st place while somehow maintaining the same EV as before, then the BRM doesn't change much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhrenknecht View Post
Yeah, something along the lines of this. To be clear, a lot of the money that you can win now in the last 13-20% tier comes from the FT, mainly places 2-3 but also the other places . This means getting ITM dozens of times with the new payouts is the same like getting to FT (and busting early) once on the old payout. This flattens variance. Also the payjumps except for #1 are so small that this might more play like a satellite up to certain points with 20% paid and a WTA structure for ~100 BI on the FT. So unless we are talking places #4-9999 or even #2-3+ the variance should be way lower which should count for most of our games we play since we just can't win every god damn bowl.

So pre bubble you can play almost satellite style and after the bubble you switch to WTA


Probably like this.

Variance short term decreased, but increased longterm.
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Old 03-27-2019, 03:36 PM   #12674
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

The picture nails it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhrenknecht View Post
So pre bubble you can play almost satellite style and after the bubble you switch to WTA
In my understanding, the contrast is smaller: the style should be like in a 45/90-man/on-demand (or like in a 2-seat satty, but not quite like in a satty with more seats) until the bubble and like ITM in a 180-man (not quite WTA, especially at the FT) after it.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:44 AM   #12675
cneuy3
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Re: PokerStars MTT Thread

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Originally Posted by zhukaSS View Post
more I guess, since 90% of payouts doesnt improve your BRM much, and only top5 improves your BRM significantly. I even wont start about how artificially pumped first spots is.

Btw, is there any regular daily MTT left without this payout structure?
Higher stake games on PokerStars, believe it starts at $80+ have more favorable structures, somewhat comparable to the old ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
Indeed, measures against stalling must be taken urgently.

I suggest a partial all-in shootout near the bubble E.g. when 25% of the initial field is left, pause the dealing, take the bottom 30% of the remaining players by stack size (7.5% of the initial field) to special 'bubble judgment' tables and put them all-in there until the bubble bursts (3 hands will be enough), then reseat the survivors back to the normal tables. The shortest stacks will have a low chance of surviving the auto-all-ins, and larger ones will have a high chance, so there will be less incentive to stall before those.

For non-winner-take-all satellites, it's even easier - start the all-in shootout when the # of remaining players is 1.5 times the money zone (rounded up), and proceed until it's known who's won the seats.
Another re-invent the wheel type solution which would probably be a WTF moment for most playing those MTTs. Adjusting payouts to previous successful models, which were by the way ok and popular for decades, would be much simpler unless you want to burden the players with more frequent "hand for hand" play at earlier levels which will cause delay and annoyance for most people imo. There will always be people trying to abuse the structure and system but the older or more standard pay jump structures made it much less enticing at those parts of the tournament and "hand for hand" at the final few tables solved the stalling issue at that point in the later parts of the tournament.

What isn't broken doesn't need to be fixed and for sure poker isn't and will not be as popular as it once was but their changes to the structures have had absolutely no increase to the popularity of the game, only their immediate bottom line.

Atleast they did eliminate the ability for 3rd party software to "auto" bot the timebank according to their rules. I use Stars Caption and it no longer supports the function to have your time bank "auto" clicked at certain per-defined intervals. They also apparently lowered the pre-time bank interval recently within their software but overall they are just putting band aids on what is a "bad" structure in the majority of their low to mid stake tournaments.
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