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01-29-2016 , 07:05 PM
FWIW pretty sure Luke was a high stakes MTT reg before he started working for pokerstars. Any reasonable suggestions I think he will strongly consider. I know Sunday will never change to Saturday but WOW would that be nice. Would be great to play from am to middle of the night on Saturday and take Sunday off to watch sports instead of vice versa.

Luke is it unreasonable to try some of the suggestions JD has suggested and just axe them if they don't work? I think that's where there is a bit of hesitation from you in that you don't think they will meet the GTDs or won't be as successful as JD thinks. I'd personally guess for most of the tournaments he is suggesting they will crush most the GTDs you put on them. Like the 50r example will your higher ups even allow you to add this to the schedule or do they think it doesn't generate enough rake to warrant putting on the schedule? How much flexibility do you actually have with making the schedule if you don't mind answering?
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01-29-2016 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakkman08
rake way too fkn high in those. wtf 15 min duration 15bb stacks and charge 10% gtfo
yup, clearly targeting mug punters
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01-29-2016 , 07:21 PM
Has anyone run numbers on 75% pskos yet? Seem fairly outrageous even by stars' standards
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01-29-2016 , 07:36 PM
Rake in 75% PSKOs is kinda like turbo MTT rake in 2009. It's really high but currently isn't a problem since your average player is so bad in them.

This will change as people start learning the format.
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01-29-2016 , 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slr940
Hey Stars reps, listen to jdpc, he knows what he's talking about. I've heard similar gripes from others.

And raise the guarantees, don't be such giant chickens. People will come, they always do.

No risk, no reward.
There's a possibility (however slight ) that Luke knows people will come to play HS tournaments and that's just not good for Stars's percentage made off of deposits.

This is why Luke is focusing on formats such as Bountybuilders/PSKO's and since he's feeling ambitious why not "timebombs". These formats all recycle rake whereas a 1k is $ going into the pockets of "winning" players and raked at a discount to boot.

Last edited by Sect7G; 01-29-2016 at 08:43 PM.
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01-29-2016 , 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdpc27
edit: now 10 am on the west coast of the world and i just busted 215 tcoop. lets see...i can play a 100 rebuy with a 15k gtd which attracts only 62 players on a tcoop day. oh, theres also a big 109 with a 15-20k lower gtd than what i am used to seeing. oh joy...let me fire up a whole miserable friday where i risk 4k to try to win 4k in some of the better scenarios. instead, i'm going to go watch mindless tv and eventually go out for lunch and stumble into some activity to do because i'm bored.

once again..when you have a guy who loves poker setting his alarm for 645 am so he can play a 215 rebuy while knocking cobwebs out of his head...when you have that player unregging and logging off stars by 10am when he woke up at an ungodly hour specifically to be engaged on pokerstars. when you give that player no motivation or reason to stay online after only 3 hours when he went to sleep early last night specifically to wake up and play on stars, you have a huge problem. you can continue to look at data and intrepret it 40 different ways. Me, I will continue to look at players motivations, time engaged, comments and the "stickiness" of the stars app. And if you look at it from that point of view, the data supports my arguements.

the only thing we really disagree on is the reason. Luke and stars think that demand has left the building and players have left the planet. Me and many other players think that stars is running its high stakes tournament schedule into the ground and is personally responsible for a decent amount of the reductions the data is showing.

Almost every live EPT event just crushes. the 1ks and 2ks in barcelona and prague did record numbers. the high rollers are almost all up on numbers across the board. every time you have a special promotion or wccop/sccop etc, the gtds you guys set always get blown out of the water. I just can't buy the arguement that everyone has left and turned off the lights when its the same players live that also play online. all of these players have stars accounts. We haven't left, we have simply changed behaviors. Years ago, most of us would battle it out in midstakes and small highstakes tournaments to win 3-5k up top. These tournaments were soft and often if you made the final table, winning 1st or 2nd was almost a lock. you could justify playing these tournaments because you would win them a huge amount of the time that you final tabled. also the weekly schedule across sites was way more expensive. it used to cost me upwards of 40k-60k a month just to cover my online buyins. there were 3 1ks a week across sites and many high stakes offerings plus ftops and party series, etc. In today's environment the final tables are much tougher and variance higher. It seems way less worth it to battle it out for 3-5k top prize when i'm going to take 7th about as much as i take 2nd and my game is continuing to be exposed to other good players for not much upside. At least when my hands are seen or showndown during the super tuesday, i have a chance to be rewarded 100k for that exposure to my game.

look at all the data you want, but i've been around and totally immersed in this game for the last 12 years. Give us a reason to play and isn't it funny, we always show up. Yet because I'd rather go out to movies/lunch on a friday than play a 100 rebuy with a withered 15k against 62 other players where i personally know about 30 of them just seems exactly what it is, withered.

people haven't left in droves, we just go to where the excitement and big money is. and apart from a special series and sundays, you barely give us a reason to show up. Tuesdays and thursdays are just barely hanging on as it is and you can't keep overusing the ko/sko/pko format to keep them breathing. They are simply band aids for the real problem. the schedule and gtds were run very rigid in the past.

Gtds were set by the worst performing day of the week. This killed organic growth, not helped it. gtds were the same across all days of the week and to not have a huge overlay on mon and fri, you guys kinda killed off the entire week as a whole.

give us more high stakes tournaments on tue/thur/ and some minis on sundays and watch the excitement and engagement come back.

seems funny they say that demand isn't there but everytime a series throws a big gtd on it, it smashes. Even take live for example. right after pca, there was a poker series at hardrock in florida. i would never normally go as their main event was a 1k and i would have to change my flight to make it, so costs wouldn't normally justify it. however, they threw a 1 million dollar gtd on it. and you know what happened, people came out of the woodwork and south florida hosted the biggest 1k that they have EVER ran. What was so different than any other 1k's they have ran? simply the guarantee.

thats why i'm saying that you don't have to just have huge buyins on the schedule...buyins that target midstakes can also pull in both groups but the gtd and format of the tournament has to be good for both groups.

it seems counterintuitive that every ept is crushing and all big gtd live events blow past expectations but that online is some completely different beast suffering through huge withdrawals. It is my arguement that this pain is self inflicted and can be fixed.

i'm begging to be proven wrong. Just start with Tuesdays and actually make tuesday a super tuesday. build out the schedule and see the response. If i'm wrong, the response will be medium and will trail off after a few weeks. But what if i'm right? see when u give a guy just one tournament say the super tuesday he then weighs that against whatever else he could be doing that day. maybe he got invited to a dinner or to go out with mates. when you give that same person a schedule to play..then they have to weigh the entire schedule vs whatever opportunity cost they have. for many years, i never missed a sunday or tuesday unless i was playing live or had a near death in the family. I rescheduled key events around the stars schedule. nowadays, if i miss a tuesday who cares. Sundays still pull decent amount of weight and still play into consideration when scheduling flights, life, etc. but not nearly as much. Just a few years ago, you would have me delaying a flight for a day or two cuz no way i would miss.

the only part of stars that still has this amount of "stickiness" with players is the live events. Most of us plan our year around those events cuz each one can change your life. We still mark our calendars for wcoop/scoop and we only really care about the two sundays during tcoop.

in fact, while on teh subject, tcoop is a perfect example. The schedule was not that great overall which just led me to follow my normal routine. play tue/thur/sun take off mon, wed, fri and saturdays are optional. only thing tcoop got me to modify all week was to fire a 3 hour session this morning. now, lets be clear..after traveling and playing live a bunch, i flew home to mexico specifically to play online and play tcoop. yet even tho i'm at home with this goal, you still have me skipping several days of one of your "series". this would have never been the case in the past. i skipped aussie millions and a wpt and am now beginning to regret both.
listen to this lad stars u total pigeons
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01-29-2016 , 11:45 PM
Thinking a little more about the BIG day being on Sunday is there data that shows that is the best day other than that is when you offer the best tournaments and has been the norm for a long time? Kind of thinking from a recreational players perspective who has work on Monday, many players would not be inclined to play on Sunday as much as they would on Saturday as most tourneys will go through the middle of the night for them. Sunday is also a day that people have family obligations and is the biggest day for sports as well which is definitely a demographic of people that plays poker. Have you ever considered having a special month where you run the Milly on both Saturday and Sunday and promote the weekend to see which one gets a better turnout?
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01-30-2016 , 01:19 AM
Luke how do u feel about moving the $530 8game to a Tuesday or Thursday?
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01-30-2016 , 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle
Thinking a little more about the BIG day being on Sunday is there data that shows that is the best day other than that is when you offer the best tournaments and has been the norm for a long time? Kind of thinking from a recreational players perspective who has work on Monday, many players would not be inclined to play on Sunday as much as they would on Saturday as most tourneys will go through the middle of the night for them. Sunday is also a day that people have family obligations and is the biggest day for sports as well which is definitely a demographic of people that plays poker. Have you ever considered having a special month where you run the Milly on both Saturday and Sunday and promote the weekend to see which one gets a better turnout?
I agree with this. Luckily I have a job where I start at 4pm so staying up for tournaments isn't a problem. But if I had a 9-5 like a lot of people do, I probably would have to skip the Sunday majors as I know a deep run would mean no sleep!
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01-30-2016 , 05:48 AM
Here's an idea that ya'll might like. Jason's posts got me thinking. How about we take the black font Sunday edition and add this to a couple of high stakes birds on Tuesday's. Pump up the guarantee 150% of a regular weekday, black font Tuesday edition, no additional tournaments to the schedule needed. 320 6max, 55r, one of the 215 turbos, etc. 10-15 of these would definitely entice more people to log on and chase the glory mid week. As the Tuesday editions grow, raise the guarantees, other comps around them will grow, raise these, everyones a winner.

#lukepls

Last edited by Asjbaaaf; 01-30-2016 at 06:02 AM.
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01-30-2016 , 06:01 AM
Make peak hour Tuesday unskippable.
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01-30-2016 , 06:04 AM
More ways to get in the super tues. phases, mega paths, more affordable freezeout sats with big guarantees. A huge deadline turbo. A huge last minute hyper.
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01-30-2016 , 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle
Thinking a little more about the BIG day being on Sunday is there data that shows that is the best day other than that is when you offer the best tournaments and has been the norm for a long time? Kind of thinking from a recreational players perspective who has work on Monday, many players would not be inclined to play on Sunday as much as they would on Saturday as most tourneys will go through the middle of the night for them. Sunday is also a day that people have family obligations and is the biggest day for sports as well which is definitely a demographic of people that plays poker. Have you ever considered having a special month where you run the Milly on both Saturday and Sunday and promote the weekend to see which one gets a better turnout?
never understood why sunday is the biggest day either, at least with packed peaktime. overall it makes sense as most ppl go out on friday/saturday and you can almost guarantee that most are gonna sit around at home on sunday, for me personally it's pretty much the worst day of the week if I don't start super early.
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01-30-2016 , 08:52 AM
I noticed you increased ss of vip tourneys from 1500 to 3000, but you forgot to increase late reg I think. Please make it 30 mins late reg.
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01-30-2016 , 10:13 AM
Luke, are you considering changes to the structure of the HU hyper MTTs? The blinds double on the first level jump. I understand these are mostly push/fold and I enjoy them that way, but there needs to be a 30/60 level inbetween. I don't even think it would increase runtime all that much, but if it did you could try reducing starting stack to 800 (from 1000), might even work better.
In any event, doubling the blinds is just wrong imo.
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01-30-2016 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONLYRAISEAA
never understood why sunday is the biggest day either, at least with packed peaktime. overall it makes sense as most ppl go out on friday/saturday and you can almost guarantee that most are gonna sit around at home on sunday, for me personally it's pretty much the worst day of the week if I don't start super early.
online poker was a US-thing originally and the SM would start there at 15:00, when the game peaked though noone really minded the late times as a huge tourney started every half an hour almost (3/5r's, many FOs identical to b11/b22 etc).
altought currently only the majors+ a few one offer multiple hundred BIs uptop so its understandable most recs not bricking their working week for the chance of turning $10 into $800 and registering for storm/SM the latest than maybe the midnight hots if they last until there
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01-30-2016 , 01:44 PM
plz recheck the guarantees and put some guarantee boost signs on it! Didn't see one of them last weeks at all.
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01-30-2016 , 01:55 PM
Yeah many of the gtds are just dying because they were never adjusted during even extended times of being beaten by 30-50%+, but I have a feeling nothing will change and Luke will introduce a new schedule and be happy with it. Although I'm worried the gtds there will suck as well for the most part.
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01-30-2016 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U shove i call
Was thinking along the line of a $162 buyin for these. 888 have had alot of their XXL series at this buyin with great results and it seems to be a underused buyin on stars. Speaking as a own diming professional i would play these every week but the 1k buyins are a bit too steep without being backed. Could award the final 9 seats to the main ST/TT as well to give more people a chance to play 1k buyins and improve the field overall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliStyle
Thinking a little more about the BIG day being on Sunday is there data that shows that is the best day other than that is when you offer the best tournaments and has been the norm for a long time? Kind of thinking from a recreational players perspective who has work on Monday, many players would not be inclined to play on Sunday as much as they would on Saturday as most tourneys will go through the middle of the night for them. Sunday is also a day that people have family obligations and is the biggest day for sports as well which is definitely a demographic of people that plays poker. Have you ever considered having a special month where you run the Milly on both Saturday and Sunday and promote the weekend to see which one gets a better turnout?
+ the Tuesday edition font these are actually great ideas and should be considered.

Regarding the SM on Saturday promo - there was a double vision week, where you guys did it with both SM and WU and it was successful, so pls do it. There's huge potential!
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01-30-2016 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mashxx
Yeah many of the gtds are just dying because they were never adjusted during even extended times of being beaten by 30-50%+,

Watch as freeze out guarantees stay conservative but PKO's, and soon ultra PKO's, will be set more aggressively

sheepherd.jpg
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01-30-2016 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdpc27
edit: now 10 am on the west coast of the world and i just busted 215 tcoop. lets see...i can play a 100 rebuy with a 15k gtd which attracts only 62 players on a tcoop day. oh, theres also a big 109 with a 15-20k lower gtd than what i am used to seeing. oh joy...let me fire up a whole miserable friday where i risk 4k to try to win 4k in some of the better scenarios. instead, i'm going to go watch mindless tv and eventually go out for lunch and stumble into some activity to do because i'm bored.

once again..when you have a guy who loves poker setting his alarm for 645 am so he can play a 215 rebuy while knocking cobwebs out of his head...when you have that player unregging and logging off stars by 10am when he woke up at an ungodly hour specifically to be engaged on pokerstars. when you give that player no motivation or reason to stay online after only 3 hours when he went to sleep early last night specifically to wake up and play on stars, you have a huge problem. you can continue to look at data and intrepret it 40 different ways. Me, I will continue to look at players motivations, time engaged, comments and the "stickiness" of the stars app. And if you look at it from that point of view, the data supports my arguements.

the only thing we really disagree on is the reason. Luke and stars think that demand has left the building and players have left the planet. Me and many other players think that stars is running its high stakes tournament schedule into the ground and is personally responsible for a decent amount of the reductions the data is showing.

Almost every live EPT event just crushes. the 1ks and 2ks in barcelona and prague did record numbers. the high rollers are almost all up on numbers across the board. every time you have a special promotion or wccop/sccop etc, the gtds you guys set always get blown out of the water. I just can't buy the arguement that everyone has left and turned off the lights when its the same players live that also play online. all of these players have stars accounts. We haven't left, we have simply changed behaviors. Years ago, most of us would battle it out in midstakes and small highstakes tournaments to win 3-5k up top. These tournaments were soft and often if you made the final table, winning 1st or 2nd was almost a lock. you could justify playing these tournaments because you would win them a huge amount of the time that you final tabled. also the weekly schedule across sites was way more expensive. it used to cost me upwards of 40k-60k a month just to cover my online buyins. there were 3 1ks a week across sites and many high stakes offerings plus ftops and party series, etc. In today's environment the final tables are much tougher and variance higher. It seems way less worth it to battle it out for 3-5k top prize when i'm going to take 7th about as much as i take 2nd and my game is continuing to be exposed to other good players for not much upside. At least when my hands are seen or showndown during the super tuesday, i have a chance to be rewarded 100k for that exposure to my game.

look at all the data you want, but i've been around and totally immersed in this game for the last 12 years. Give us a reason to play and isn't it funny, we always show up. Yet because I'd rather go out to movies/lunch on a friday than play a 100 rebuy with a withered 15k against 62 other players where i personally know about 30 of them just seems exactly what it is, withered.

people haven't left in droves, we just go to where the excitement and big money is. and apart from a special series and sundays, you barely give us a reason to show up. Tuesdays and thursdays are just barely hanging on as it is and you can't keep overusing the ko/sko/pko format to keep them breathing. They are simply band aids for the real problem. the schedule and gtds were run very rigid in the past.

Gtds were set by the worst performing day of the week. This killed organic growth, not helped it. gtds were the same across all days of the week and to not have a huge overlay on mon and fri, you guys kinda killed off the entire week as a whole.

give us more high stakes tournaments on tue/thur/ and some minis on sundays and watch the excitement and engagement come back.

seems funny they say that demand isn't there but everytime a series throws a big gtd on it, it smashes. Even take live for example. right after pca, there was a poker series at hardrock in florida. i would never normally go as their main event was a 1k and i would have to change my flight to make it, so costs wouldn't normally justify it. however, they threw a 1 million dollar gtd on it. and you know what happened, people came out of the woodwork and south florida hosted the biggest 1k that they have EVER ran. What was so different than any other 1k's they have ran? simply the guarantee.

thats why i'm saying that you don't have to just have huge buyins on the schedule...buyins that target midstakes can also pull in both groups but the gtd and format of the tournament has to be good for both groups.

it seems counterintuitive that every ept is crushing and all big gtd live events blow past expectations but that online is some completely different beast suffering through huge withdrawals. It is my arguement that this pain is self inflicted and can be fixed.

i'm begging to be proven wrong. Just start with Tuesdays and actually make tuesday a super tuesday. build out the schedule and see the response. If i'm wrong, the response will be medium and will trail off after a few weeks. But what if i'm right? see when u give a guy just one tournament say the super tuesday he then weighs that against whatever else he could be doing that day. maybe he got invited to a dinner or to go out with mates. when you give that same person a schedule to play..then they have to weigh the entire schedule vs whatever opportunity cost they have. for many years, i never missed a sunday or tuesday unless i was playing live or had a near death in the family. I rescheduled key events around the stars schedule. nowadays, if i miss a tuesday who cares. Sundays still pull decent amount of weight and still play into consideration when scheduling flights, life, etc. but not nearly as much. Just a few years ago, you would have me delaying a flight for a day or two cuz no way i would miss.

the only part of stars that still has this amount of "stickiness" with players is the live events. Most of us plan our year around those events cuz each one can change your life. We still mark our calendars for wcoop/scoop and we only really care about the two sundays during tcoop.

in fact, while on teh subject, tcoop is a perfect example. The schedule was not that great overall which just led me to follow my normal routine. play tue/thur/sun take off mon, wed, fri and saturdays are optional. only thing tcoop got me to modify all week was to fire a 3 hour session this morning. now, lets be clear..after traveling and playing live a bunch, i flew home to mexico specifically to play online and play tcoop. yet even tho i'm at home with this goal, you still have me skipping several days of one of your "series". this would have never been the case in the past. i skipped aussie millions and a wpt and am now beginning to regret both.

He gets it.

Little risk, lots of reward for trying this. Could be successful easily.

I expect nothing to happen.

At least Amaya/PS downfall is karmic retribution for their unethical behavior.

So I can happily watch it and laugh...

(Google Amaya stock. Tis just a fleah wound.)
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01-30-2016 , 04:52 PM
http://m.nasdaq.com/article/amaya-be...d-aya-cm570074 someone with stock markets tell me what this means
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01-30-2016 , 05:03 PM
Amaya stock has pretty much 0 to do with the MTT schedule. The stock price getting hammered has mostly to do with the massive debt they have from the Stars sale and the feeling among investors about re-entry into markets (like the USA).

Dragging this off topic not gonna get us anywhere.
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01-30-2016 , 06:13 PM
I think the easiest solution to all these problems would just be to get the Yanks back, sigh
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01-30-2016 , 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayme87
http://m.nasdaq.com/article/amaya-be...d-aya-cm570074 someone with stock markets tell me what this means
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/30...nce-investing/

i have no idea, but someone over here can probably explain it for you
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