Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

MTT Community MTT sweat and official threads as well as various contests and events

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-04-2015, 10:28 AM   #51
Sect7G
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calling a spade a spade
Posts: 10,366
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuddenlyGood2 View Post
As of tomorrow I am starting my campaign to win the custom avatar at the low stakes route so sorry guys you will all have to settle for 2nd place or lower...
You might just be able to pull this off... since I'm playing for the high leaderboard.

You up for a bet on who finishes higher on their respective leaderboard gets to pick the other guys avatar and screen name for a week in January?
2 weeks if I lose and only 1 week for you since there's more runners in the low division.
Sect7G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 11:01 AM   #52
UnibetRep
Unibet Rep
 
UnibetRep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Angry Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBurf View Post
I like the sound of on demand SNGs. I think they could be implemented with a player cap of lets say 18 people so that if a game fills before the 30 minutes people are forced to launch a new game which will help to keep games going constantly. Another thing to keep games going is if the games will launch when 3 players register.

Having a capped amount of people will make it easier to define the payout structure. For each of the possible amount of players that a game might have from 3-18, a lookup table can be used which will store the % payouts and # of players paid. Similar to MTT but pre-defined meaning it wont say "per 3 people 1 gets paid" because that way you could have 5people and 1 paid which IMO doesn't go in line with Unibet principles because it gives better players more edge.

In this scenario the games would be 3 tables of 6 people and there will always be a minimum of 3 people at a table until the end HU. So if there is 13 people it will balance to tables of 4/4/5 players while trying to maintain a similar amount of chips on each table. So it wont just unfairly move a big stack to a table full of shorties and vice versa. This may not always be possible but the balance algorithm must atleast try.

Blind structure would be same as current STT and 2k stacks with 6-7% rake.

There are other scenarios such as 20 player cap that will have 4 tables of 5. This could launch at 5 players(2 paid) and for every new table 1 extra player is paid (easier to implement, only need 4 look up entries per new table of players rather than the possible 18 from above). This is similar to the current Unibet STT though, IMO the goal should be to add something different. Also keeping games running becomes harder.

Just my thoughts on this, hope it makes sense cheers.
Definitely makes sense and the cap idea is one which probably works best at the moment. Thanks for your input!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
I like the idea of on-demands as well but I think traffic is still a little light to support them without hurting the current SNG/MTT traffic. With the way things are going probably February or March would seem about right.

I love the suggestion above about having these start without a full lineup of players. 3 players might not be ideal to start. Why not wait for 5-6 players? If you can't get 5-6 players then it's really unlikely the demand at that time of the day would fill 18-20 players later on. To start I'd put these offerings at the 1euro and 4euro price points.
I would prefer a full or close to full single table to start with also to avoid abusing the model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBurf View Post
I think if you launch a game people are generally more likely to join it than a game that hasn't already started especially if its a micro buyin like you suggest. This is because they are playing instantly and why OD could be a popular format. Full Tilt has them and they launch at 12 players which is probably the reason why they are not so successful on there(especially during offpeak). When you make it more players till launch people can just get bored of waiting and unregister then go play another game like STT. I can see there is a conflict here though with liquidity between the two formats where one is fighting against the other for players.

I think it will take a while to implement this type of game anyway so yeah hopefully traffic would be increased by then.

One more point, I think 30 minute demand time would be too much with 3 min blinds so might have to up blind time to 4-5 minutes so it would be t100 or t120 by the time registration closes instead of t240a.
I agree the late registration is very dependent on the chosen structure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinsticker View Post
And then get to the top 50 with a huge stack... as all the others and finish 25th... out of 3256 players! What a great result!

Spoiler:
Been there.. done that. Once I came 1st but can't remember how I won the last hand with j7o! Well actually once I came 27th in the biggest tournament online of a Sunday with KK< A2 BTN vs BB 3b jam both average stack
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuddenlyGood2 View Post
As of tomorrow I am starting my campaign to win the custom avatar at the low stakes route so sorry guys you will all have to settle for 2nd place or lower...
Bluff!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
You might just be able to pull this off... since I'm playing for the high leaderboard.

You up for a bet on who finishes higher on their respective leaderboard gets to pick the other guys avatar and screen name for a week in January?
2 weeks if I lose and only 1 week for you since there's more runners in the low division.
I like the spirit in this thread
UnibetRep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 11:43 AM   #53
LektorAJ
Pooh-Bah
 
LektorAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: none
Posts: 5,865
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

That would be good. I suggested pretty much the sames thing in the Pokerstars MTTSNG thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
Regardless of the time of day, make them all so that they start anyway after 10 mins in the lobby and allow late registration for 4 levels or until they make the player cap (at peak times most would already start fully subscribed). At least there would be some point in signing up for some of them then and they might run more.
You can still have a cap on the number of players though - 36 mans would be symmetrical would be good with your 6-max thing.

So it goes like this:

1) Is there a 36 man currently regging? If no go to 2), if yes, wait till there isn't.
2) Create a tournament with a start time in ten minutes and a cap of 36 players, 30 mins late registrations.
3) Is the tournament full, if so go back to 1), if not wait till it is.

I don't know about the length of levels. Pokerstars' more popular ones have 5 minute levels, though personally I'd prefer longer. Try and judge it so they take about 90 minutes. That's perfect for between putting the kids to bed and going to bed yourself.

And they should be in the tournaments tab, not SNGs. This is the problem with them on Pokerstars. Most people talk about SNG's when they mean STTs and Scheduled Tournaments when they mean MTTs - but I think players don't have a first order preference for e.g. tournaments with a fixed starting time over tournaments with a starting time dependent on entries or vice versa, they have a first order preference for tournaments with one table over tournaments with many tables or vice-versa.

The trouble with the other current tournaments you suggest is they are basically jam and fold in the levels that actually matter - I don't mind playing them but they leave something missing from the schedule
LektorAJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 03:08 PM   #54
SuddenlyGood2
adept
 
SuddenlyGood2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London
Posts: 899
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

haha unibetrep, sounds good sect! :P

btw... schedule for low lists a 1 euro deepstack 100 GTD starting at 7pm, but this tournament isn't running tonight (but there's one scheduled for tomorrow)
SuddenlyGood2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 01:08 PM   #55
SuddenlyGood2
adept
 
SuddenlyGood2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London
Posts: 899
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Hi i posted this in Unibet thread too, but not sure which is best to post, so x posted here too

Some MTT Lobby feedback

1) It would be good to have a text search feature.

2) It would be nice if each tourney took up half the height it does in the list currently so we can see more on one screen.

3) Instead of showing current level in column 1 where it says 'starts' it would be nice if it showed how many minutes / hours minutes, it has been running, then at a glance we know how long it's been running, because level 5 in one , might be level 1 in another, for same amount of time.

4) I don't think i've seen this on a poker site before, but as you basically code any feature you want on Unibet...! It would be nice if you had a highlight colour (or maybe a switch to switch this highlight colour on) for mtts that haven't met their guarantee - this might help you pay out less overlay, and also help people that want to get into value mtts, dive in!
SuddenlyGood2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 09:14 PM   #56
Chuck Bass
World's Most Interesting Procrastinator
 
Chuck Bass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Once A Gambler is the name
Posts: 8,672
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Hello,

While I've been a long time MTT reg I'm at least semi-retired these days so this doesn't really come from a greedy reg's perspective. I've been opening your client ~once a month to fire a few mtts and to see if you've fixed any of these issues but so far every time I've come to the conclusion that the software is unplayable for me. I really, really like pretty much everything you're doing on paper, your reg-friendly approach and I truly wish you success. But anyway these are the things that irritate me.

1) Can you come up with just one theme that is simple and easy on the eye? Everything you have looks confusing and has bright colours and too much graphics for, yes, multi-tabling. I understand that recs like that stuff and I have no objection against having those themes. But could you code one, just one tiny hyper-simple theme for those who don't enjoy too much graphics? Just hide it somewhere at the bottom of the list so the recs will still have the cool ones as a default.

2) It tilts the bejesus out of me that the board cards are leaning backwards. Can you make them straight at least in the aforementioned theme like every other site

3) The fonts of stack sizes are too small. It's impossible to see them unless you have the table open as huge. Can you please fix them so that if you have the table as small the fonts get bigger, or just have them big in every case? It's basically impossible to make the numbers too big but very easy to make them too small.

4) This is by far my biggest problem, I hate it even more than the bugs. Can you PLEASE make it possible to make notes in the software about players? If nothing else even just being able to color code would be good, but preferably written notes. I know people can change identities so the notes won't follow, but even just for the tournament that is going on would be very helpful. I'm sure recs would appreciate it too or at least wouldn't be opposed to it?

5) Yeah can you fix the bugs. 5/5 my last sessions I've encountered some absurd bugs like being thrown out of the client and blinding out of tournaments that have cost me money. This week I've played on 3 days and had the same stuff every time, so far I have yet to even hear back from your support. It's also pretty annoying when your lobbies lag so much that it tells you there are 52 people left when in reality it's the bubble (13 left) of your biggest tournament of the day, or when you're at a satellite ft but the lobby won't tell you how many seats it awards. You know, being able to know these things is kinda crucial to play the correct strategy yet you never refund for these things because it's the same problem for everyone. Well, I guess it is but I prefer to at least have an up-to-date prizepool so I just play on other sites then (I can confirm it's pretty annoying to make a loose but correct call to bubble a tournament when you thought it was 40 spots off the money like your lobby said)

6) Well this is not really a complaint but +1 to having rebuy tournaments. It's kinda fun because they are not even that good for the economy but I think a huge problem currently is that your prizepools are so miserably small, and rebuys are a pretty good way to boost them.

7) Any thoughts on putting those Sunday 90€ thingy tickets as part of the prizepool in your biggest tourneys as well? I really don't have the time or energy to play 10 euro WTA satellites to win a ticket to that thing. For example Winamax does this, for many tournaments they put a few 150€ sunday major tickets for the top3 as a part of the prizepool. I don't mean that you would add them, just convert like 10-20% of the prizepools of a couple of bigger daily tournaments into tickets and award the rest in cash, so that for example the first prize of some tournament is 90€ ticket +420€ instead of 510€. This would seem like a reasonable solution so that people could actually get in that thing without all the crushers taking away the money too easily.

Having all that said, I really like your approach and I hope you get things working. You seem to have the confidence to try out cool, out of the box things to make poker fun for everyone. I'll check back in a month to donk off a couple of plebs again

Last edited by Chuck Bass; 12-05-2015 at 09:20 PM.
Chuck Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 06:12 AM   #57
RaiseAgainst
adept
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: ITM
Posts: 1,132
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Since this is now apparently the largefield MTT BBV thread: me 2nd in chips vs 4th in chips AK < KQ (AI pre )for massive chiplead 25left in bigger11, ~20k up top

Last edited by RaiseAgainst; 12-06-2015 at 06:12 AM. Reason: I still cry sometimes
RaiseAgainst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 04:29 PM   #58
rsfb
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 110
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnibetRep View Post
This might be perception and the games you are used to play. When there are more requests for big antes and early antes we will definitely look into this at some point, but as Andrew mentioned we like to keep things simple to digest for the players who are not so much structure and ante aware
so everyone here reading this, can you guys please back me up so i can prove that earlier ante's is not perception and that nobody likes to play shallow poker without ante's.
rsfb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 04:37 PM   #59
Sect7G
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calling a spade a spade
Posts: 10,366
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

For the Sunday Entitled 90EU MTT could you up the blind levels to 12 min and drop starting stack to 5k or keep it at 10k but switch the blinds to 10 min.

This concept of must satellite in to play is great for the players of Unibet and I feel many would prefer longer blinds to extend the experience.
Sect7G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 04:56 PM   #60
Chuck Bass
World's Most Interesting Procrastinator
 
Chuck Bass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Once A Gambler is the name
Posts: 8,672
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

I forgot to mention in my post that yes, earlier antes would be muchos preferable. Tournament poker without antes (esp full ring) = meaningless play. You don't have to put them in there from the start or do anything groundbreaking but you just have too many meaningless levels. And not having antes makes everyone (especially regs) play like huge nits, is this the experience you want for the recs? Currently, many tournaments basically play like this: 5k starting stack, antes kick in at 120/240 (I think?). So everyone plays 10VPIP until starting stack = 20BB and then it becomes a shove fest. A "normal" point to introduce antes would be at 50/100. This way everyone would start to open up earlier and there would be more FUN POKERS before it becomes a flipfest, and I genuinely believe this to also be the way recs would view it. Even if recs don't necessarily understand that antes means you should play more hands, but I doubt you can find a rec out there who would be against looser play in general.
Chuck Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 05:02 PM   #61
rsfb
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 110
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

exactly what i said in my first post, no ante's just make everyone play super tight wich is boring for everyone
rsfb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 05:11 AM   #62
UnibetAndrew
Unibet Rep
 
UnibetAndrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: London
Posts: 2,091
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

I'll leave specifically tourney feedback stuff to Robin, but as this is client related instead:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
1) Can you come up with just one theme that is simple and easy on the eye? Everything you have looks confusing and has bright colours and too much graphics for, yes, multi-tabling. I understand that recs like that stuff and I have no objection against having those themes. But could you code one, just one tiny hyper-simple theme for those who don't enjoy too much graphics? Just hide it somewhere at the bottom of the list so the recs will still have the cool ones as a default.
You can make it relatively simple:



But ultimately, while I don't want to put multitablers off by purposely making the client worse for them, I don't want to spend development time on making their life better when it doesn't help casual players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
2) It tilts the bejesus out of me that the board cards are leaning backwards. Can you make them straight at least in the aforementioned theme like every other site
I'm afraid this is essentially impossible because it's done at a very low level in the client. It'd take a ton of work for a small aesthetic change. We had quite a few comments about this when we launched but I think people get used to it pretty quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
3) The fonts of stack sizes are too small. It's impossible to see them unless you have the table open as huge. Can you please fix them so that if you have the table as small the fonts get bigger, or just have them big in every case? It's basically impossible to make the numbers too big but very easy to make them too small.
This is also very hard to fix, but I agree it's something that we SHOULD fix. It's something we're working on, but we're talking months rather than weeks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
4) This is by far my biggest problem, I hate it even more than the bugs. Can you PLEASE make it possible to make notes in the software about players? If nothing else even just being able to color code would be good, but preferably written notes. I know people can change identities so the notes won't follow, but even just for the tournament that is going on would be very helpful. I'm sure recs would appreciate it too or at least wouldn't be opposed to it?
Sorry, it's not really what we're after with the client. I want to keep it as simple as possible, and I definitely don't want it to be about skill in making and maintaining notes. It also encourages someone to get the site working in HEM or whatever, then mass-exporting notes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
5) Yeah can you fix the bugs. 5/5 my last sessions I've encountered some absurd bugs like being thrown out of the client and blinding out of tournaments that have cost me money. This week I've played on 3 days and had the same stuff every time, so far I have yet to even hear back from your support.
What's your alias? I'll ask our 3rd line to look into it. We had connection problems the weekend before last, and a couple of problems later into the week but they were brief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
6) Well this is not really a complaint but +1 to having rebuy tournaments. It's kinda fun because they are not even that good for the economy but I think a huge problem currently is that your prizepools are so miserably small, and rebuys are a pretty good way to boost them.
This is another thing that's going to take a while I'm afraid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
7) Any thoughts on putting those Sunday 90€ thingy tickets as part of the prizepool in your biggest tourneys as well? I really don't have the time or energy to play 10 euro WTA satellites to win a ticket to that thing. For example Winamax does this, for many tournaments they put a few 150€ sunday major tickets for the top3 as a part of the prizepool. I don't mean that you would add them, just convert like 10-20% of the prizepools of a couple of bigger daily tournaments into tickets and award the rest in cash, so that for example the first prize of some tournament is 90€ ticket +420€ instead of 510€. This would seem like a reasonable solution so that people could actually get in that thing without all the crushers taking away the money too easily.
I'll leave this one & the other post for Robin.
UnibetAndrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 06:31 AM   #63
UnibetRep
Unibet Rep
 
UnibetRep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuddenlyGood2 View Post
haha unibetrep, sounds good sect! :P

btw... schedule for low lists a 1 euro deepstack 100 GTD starting at 7pm, but this tournament isn't running tonight (but there's one scheduled for tomorrow)
It was supposed to run that day, it looks like reproducing the game was missed by the system for some reason. Sorry for that it will run daily normally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuddenlyGood2 View Post
Hi i posted this in Unibet thread too, but not sure which is best to post, so x posted here too

Some MTT Lobby feedback

1) It would be good to have a text search feature.

2) It would be nice if each tourney took up half the height it does in the list currently so we can see more on one screen.

3) Instead of showing current level in column 1 where it says 'starts' it would be nice if it showed how many minutes / hours minutes, it has been running, then at a glance we know how long it's been running, because level 5 in one , might be level 1 in another, for same amount of time.

4) I don't think i've seen this on a poker site before, but as you basically code any feature you want on Unibet...! It would be nice if you had a highlight colour (or maybe a switch to switch this highlight colour on) for mtts that haven't met their guarantee - this might help you pay out less overlay, and also help people that want to get into value mtts, dive in!
1) Is this not what you mean. Otherwise I am not sure what kind of search feature you mean exactly.


2) This feedback has been forwarded thanks.

3) The same thing can be said visa versa. The time it has been running doesn't say anything about the progress of the structure.

4) I like the idea of making it more clear when a certain GTD is not met.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
7) Any thoughts on putting those Sunday 90€ thingy tickets as part of the prizepool in your biggest tourneys as well? I really don't have the time or energy to play 10 euro WTA satellites to win a ticket to that thing. For example Winamax does this, for many tournaments they put a few 150€ sunday major tickets for the top3 as a part of the prizepool. I don't mean that you would add them, just convert like 10-20% of the prizepools of a couple of bigger daily tournaments into tickets and award the rest in cash, so that for example the first prize of some tournament is 90€ ticket +420€ instead of 510€. This would seem like a reasonable solution so that people could actually get in that thing without all the crushers taking away the money too easily.
The partly ticket prizepool concept has been in my mind to keep games running before the Sunday Entitled was there, but we also liked the idea that you had free choice what to play with top 3 prize money. The Sunday Entitled at the other hand is a ticket only event for a reason. The qualifiers are an inseparably part of this event and not meant to be a struggle to eventually qualify to compete against top winning players who received as a side-gift from the regular grind and didn't have to go through the qualifiers. Also the Sunday Entitled buy-in has no fee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiseAgainst View Post
Since this is now apparently the largefield MTT BBV thread: me 2nd in chips vs 4th in chips AK < KQ (AI pre )for massive chiplead 25left in bigger11, ~20k up top
you are welcome brutal one though. You could try some smaller field mtt on Unibet and bink a game here and there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
For the Sunday Entitled 90EU MTT could you up the blind levels to 12 min and drop starting stack to 5k or keep it at 10k but switch the blinds to 10 min.

This concept of must satellite in to play is great for the players of Unibet and I feel many would prefer longer blinds to extend the experience.
I have been railing the game and agree, that we can extend the play a little bit. I will change it to 10 min blinds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
I forgot to mention in my post that yes, earlier antes would be muchos preferable. Tournament poker without antes (esp full ring) = meaningless play. You don't have to put them in there from the start or do anything groundbreaking but you just have too many meaningless levels. And not having antes makes everyone (especially regs) play like huge nits, is this the experience you want for the recs? Currently, many tournaments basically play like this: 5k starting stack, antes kick in at 120/240 (I think?). So everyone plays 10VPIP until starting stack = 20BB and then it becomes a shove fest. A "normal" point to introduce antes would be at 50/100. This way everyone would start to open up earlier and there would be more FUN POKERS before it becomes a flipfest, and I genuinely believe this to also be the way recs would view it. Even if recs don't necessarily understand that antes means you should play more hands, but I doubt you can find a rec out there who would be against looser play in general.
It is something we will think about to implement for sure, when we are reconstructing some structures. I like the idea that games become more fun. That is beneficial for everyone. I also know the format benefits the skilled player more. I think we need to find a balance with this. We all know that early antes and big antes were introduced in the online world to speed up the games and to create interesting dynamic for certain level players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsfb View Post
exactly what i said in my first post, no ante's just make everyone play super tight wich is boring for everyone
You found a buddy It is on the list now
UnibetRep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 07:54 AM   #64
LektorAJ
Pooh-Bah
 
LektorAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: none
Posts: 5,865
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Does anyone actually prefer 9-max tournaments to 6-max ones? It seems to me you have to wait around for much longer. The levels need to be 50% longer for them to run at equivalent depth with people playing (i.e. not open-folding) roughly the same number of hands per level. So it's just more boring. I tend to think the recs don't play tight enough in early positions.

I don't know if this is recorded, or if you can see the queries hitting the server, but are you finding a lot of people hitting the "9-max only" button when they are searching for tournaments in the filter? If so then I must be wrong.

Also can the filter default to only show tournaments still registering? We would then unclick it if we wanted to look at old ones for any reason (of course if we are still in them we can click the trophy symbol to see the lobby anyway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
It's basically impossible to make the numbers too big but very easy to make them too small.
+1 - also applies to the numbers on the cards as I keep saying.

On that subject - if at least the cards were not held in the V-shape I would be able to edit the graphics file directly on my machine so they would be readable at least for me - though playing on the android app would still be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
6) Well this is not really a complaint but +1 to having rebuy tournaments.
To me the difference between an MTT and a cash game is that a cash game is a bunch of people sitting in a room gambling, and the MTT has something in common with a sporting event, and as such all entrants should be equal. For example getting to the final table of a (stars) 45 man actually means something to an occasional player, even though you only cash from 7th upwards.

For comparison, play micro-play-money cash on pokerstars, then play a micro-play-money 45 man. The playcash game is just people randomly jamming 100BBs - without real money there is no game. On the other hand, the 45 man is a low standard of play, but you are still against other people trying to win and there is still a game happening. That "essence" of a game or a competition that survives even in playmoney tournaments is part of what makes tournaments special. My facebook profile pic is me holding cards after I shipped a small live MTT (1st place was a 3-figure euro amount so this doesn't qualify as a sick brag). It wouldn't matter if I was lifetime down at poker, I would still have won that competition one time, I would still have that photo, I would still have the memory of the TD shaking my hand. Unibet seems to know this by having a trophy symbol as the icon to go to a tournament lobby.

The purest form is the SNG (ideally MTTSNG) with no late reg, so nobody can take a tactical decision to skip the deeper levels, you are tested over all of them. Like an F1 race, you can't just wait in the pits till it stops raining, you get out and compete with the others as best you can till conditions are more in your favour.

Late reg doesn't break the "competition" aspect, but other things like unlimited re-entries and also the "multi-buy"/choose your stack thing put it under very heavy strain IMHO. If things like those reduce MTTs to a bunch of guys in a room gambling, then they don't offer anything that the user can't do for themselves by playing cash (e.g. reverse martingaling it if they want a high potential win for low buy in).
LektorAJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 10:38 AM   #65
UnibetRep
Unibet Rep
 
UnibetRep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by pirahn View Post
Feedback, I like the new entitled tourny. Not keen on the final sat structure €25 to €90. It's 5 to 1 in earlier rounds. personal preference is consistency. Surprised there was no advertising ( or i missed it ) or to give it a big push using xmas promos/missions.
Also, Saturday €100 tourny. Would be nice to have a 5 to 1 structure alongside the 10 to 1 structure.
I think the above 2 tournys would benefit from a daily final with x amount of seats guaranteed. Sats throughout day to final along with freeroll with these seats as prizes & mission promos. Not sure its feasible with the flexible ticket dates but just a thought as it seems to work very well at another site and reduces overlay. pirahn
Thanks for your feedback and nice to hear you like the Sunday Entitled.

For the final sat structure we made it easier to qualify, because naturally we have more flow in the lower qualifiers and don't want to make it too difficult for players to be able to qualify.

We didn't push it big for now, because it was decided last minute to add it right now and we didn't mind that it would start a bit slow.
I agree it would be nice to have a 5 to 1 (or something close to this) sat structure for the Saturday stack and will look into this soon.

Atm there are daily finals to the event with 1 seat at least guaranteed. This Sunday in the last €25 satellite there were 4 seats generated. I believe more seats will generated during weekday once it will gain popularity and we will push it through several channels as you also suggested.
UnibetRep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 10:44 AM   #66
Soepgroente
Pooh-Bah
 
Soepgroente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,866
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Some thoughts:

- Put the current blind level somewhere on the table and the buyin in the title of the window.
- Show the amount of entries in the lobby, not just the amount remaining. Where it says "Players" there's a fairly useless statistic about minimum/maximum entrants. Or doing it like 888 does would be good, your own position 126th and 247/298 players remaining.
- Save filters automatically, they almost miss the point entirely if you have to redo them every time.

Qualified for the sunday entitled yesterday, very cool concept, great that it's rakefree, but I'd change the structure a bit. It was really slow to start off and then became a turbo towards the end, with a 333bb starting stack but 8 minute levels. Changing it to 10 or 12 minutes and starting with 25/50 would make it better I think.

Also the 500 chips 3minute level qualifiers had 10% rake, that seems a bit much, though I suppose you could argue that the target tournament has a slower structure and is rakefree.
Soepgroente is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 12:56 PM   #67
UnibetRep
Unibet Rep
 
UnibetRep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
Does anyone actually prefer 9-max tournaments to 6-max ones? It seems to me you have to wait around for much longer. The levels need to be 50% longer for them to run at equivalent depth with people playing (i.e. not open-folding) roughly the same number of hands per level. So it's just more boring. I tend to think the recs don't play tight enough in early positions.

I don't know if this is recorded, or if you can see the queries hitting the server, but are you finding a lot of people hitting the "9-max only" button when they are searching for tournaments in the filter? If so then I must be wrong.

Also can the filter default to only show tournaments still registering? We would then unclick it if we wanted to look at old ones for any reason (of course if we are still in them we can click the trophy symbol to see the lobby anyway).



+1 - also applies to the numbers on the cards as I keep saying.

On that subject - if at least the cards were not held in the V-shape I would be able to edit the graphics file directly on my machine so they would be readable at least for me - though playing on the android app would still be a problem.



To me the difference between an MTT and a cash game is that a cash game is a bunch of people sitting in a room gambling, and the MTT has something in common with a sporting event, and as such all entrants should be equal. For example getting to the final table of a (stars) 45 man actually means something to an occasional player, even though you only cash from 7th upwards.

For comparison, play micro-play-money cash on pokerstars, then play a micro-play-money 45 man. The playcash game is just people randomly jamming 100BBs - without real money there is no game. On the other hand, the 45 man is a low standard of play, but you are still against other people trying to win and there is still a game happening. That "essence" of a game or a competition that survives even in playmoney tournaments is part of what makes tournaments special. My facebook profile pic is me holding cards after I shipped a small live MTT (1st place was a 3-figure euro amount so this doesn't qualify as a sick brag). It wouldn't matter if I was lifetime down at poker, I would still have won that competition one time, I would still have that photo, I would still have the memory of the TD shaking my hand. Unibet seems to know this by having a trophy symbol as the icon to go to a tournament lobby.

The purest form is the SNG (ideally MTTSNG) with no late reg, so nobody can take a tactical decision to skip the deeper levels, you are tested over all of them. Like an F1 race, you can't just wait in the pits till it stops raining, you get out and compete with the others as best you can till conditions are more in your favour.

Late reg doesn't break the "competition" aspect, but other things like unlimited re-entries and also the "multi-buy"/choose your stack thing put it under very heavy strain IMHO. If things like those reduce MTTs to a bunch of guys in a room gambling, then they don't offer anything that the user can't do for themselves by playing cash (e.g. reverse martingaling it if they want a high potential win for low buy in).
Even though I really like 6 max tournaments what I have noticed from own experience and watching the games, is that it is much easier for players to play more 9 max tournaments. This means that even if they like 6 max they will add 9 max tournaments often to their sessions. The total entrants in 9 max seem to be higher than the 6 max events. I can confirm that for the same events I changed to 9 max which were 6 max in the past. However still we like to offer a fair amount of 6 max events.
I will test something in the line of 2 table mtts today. During peak times there will be some €1, 18 players cap games to test out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Soepgroente View Post
Some thoughts:

- Put the current blind level somewhere on the table and the buyin in the title of the window.
- Show the amount of entries in the lobby, not just the amount remaining. Where it says "Players" there's a fairly useless statistic about minimum/maximum entrants. Or doing it like 888 does would be good, your own position 126th and 247/298 players remaining.
- Save filters automatically, they almost miss the point entirely if you have to redo them every time.

Qualified for the sunday entitled yesterday, very cool concept, great that it's rakefree, but I'd change the structure a bit. It was really slow to start off and then became a turbo towards the end, with a 333bb starting stack but 8 minute levels. Changing it to 10 or 12 minutes and starting with 25/50 would make it better I think.

Also the 500 chips 3minute level qualifiers had 10% rake, that seems a bit much, though I suppose you could argue that the target tournament has a slower structure and is rakefree.
Thanks for your feedback, I like the first suggestion and forwarded it together with saving filter which is mentioned before indeed.
The position/remaining thing will change in a way the total amount of players will be visible in the same section.

The 500 chips qualifiers are just a last minute call for the ones who still like to have a shot minutes before the event. If this were ongoing sng qualifiers I think the rake should be reduced indeed. Now I think it is fine or should be reduced slightly also keeping in mind the target event is rake free. We don't want to attracted players from the regular qualifiers into these particular one, which might happen if we rake way less in them.
UnibetRep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 02:16 PM   #68
LektorAJ
Pooh-Bah
 
LektorAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: none
Posts: 5,865
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnibetRep View Post
I will test something in the line of 2 table mtts today. During peak times there will be some €1, 18 players cap games to test out.
I played one between lessons today. Because it was 9-max it had already descended into push-fold at about the start of the final table - even though the level length is the same as the 5-max SNGs which don't do that very quickly, simply because in 5-max you get more playable hands per 3-minute level. Another way to think about it is you have 3 tables and 3 dealers chucking cards to 18 players, we are getting 50 percent more hands in than we would with 2 tables just 2 dealer chucking cards to the 18 players (actually it's even more because a hand takes a slightly shorter length of time when there are few people to fold pre-flop).

The one advantage of 9-max is it's easier to get that "competitive" achievement I was talking about in that wall of text of "final-tabling".

If you go with 9-max then the levels should be about 5 minutes long.

Other than that it was fine and it filled up nicely to 18 players in the opening few levels
LektorAJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 10:36 PM   #69
neveren0ugh
grinder
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 540
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Props to the reps for replying to every single suggestion and/or feedback. Always great to have support guys who actually care what players think and listen to them.

Definitely needs more exciting stuff, at least once a week but I trust your schedule will improve/expand with time and growth.

One question - is the site available in all euro countries and if not, where can I see who can access it (im in a regulated market)?
neveren0ugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2015, 11:13 PM   #70
Chuck Bass
World's Most Interesting Procrastinator
 
Chuck Bass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Once A Gambler is the name
Posts: 8,672
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnibetAndrew View Post
I'll leave specifically tourney feedback stuff to Robin, but as this is client related instead:





Sorry, it's not really what we're after with the client. I want to keep it as simple as possible, and I definitely don't want it to be about skill in making and maintaining notes. It also encourages someone to get the site working in HEM or whatever, then mass-exporting notes.



What's your alias? I'll ask our 3rd line to look into it. We had connection problems the weekend before last, and a couple of problems later into the week but they were brief.

Can you even just add color coding, like say you have five different colored balls you can mark people with? That way no one could do any kind of mass-exporting (doubt anyone would do that anyway) because colors mean different things to different people. Or if you wanted to make it really cool, you could have graphic symbols (no pokersite has this, I bet the recs would love it!). So you could mark someone as an actual fish logo, or donkey, or whatever. This is at least personally the vast majority of the reason why I don't play on Unibet, I don't have time to use pen and paper or some spreadsheet to write down what I think of everyone, and my "name memory" is nonexistent, I forget who's who as soon as they leave my table. I don't think this is at all just for regs fwiw, for example the note taking softwares people use in live tournaments (type "poker notes" in app store) are like 99% used by fish, every time you see someone use it on their ipad while playing it's some 50yo recreational player.


My account name (not poker name) is DreamOfHanna, I sent some emails and got a "we are looking into it" reply like 4 days ago and then nothing.

Quote:
It is something we will think about to implement for sure, when we are reconstructing some structures. I like the idea that games become more fun. That is beneficial for everyone. I also know the format benefits the skilled player more. I think we need to find a balance with this. We all know that early antes and big antes were introduced in the online world to speed up the games and to create interesting dynamic for certain level players.
I honestly don't think it black and white even benefits the skilled player more. Like, it's another aspect that theoretically boosts a skilled player's edge since skilled players understand the math and why they should be more aggressive with antes. But in practice I think in many cases it actually makes the recs inadvertently play better, and fingers crossed I'm not just saying this. I mean, what's the most common mistake you think the recs make when they play? Yep, playing too many hands. With antes playing many more hands is actually justified. Recs especially love to call everything from their big blind. In ante-less poker they leak much more money doing that, when they call 80% of hands against 12% opening ranges. But with antes it's actually optimal to call like 70% of hands there. So in that spot they are accidentally playing better even if they don't realize why. That's perhaps the most obvious situation, but it applies to everything really. And they get me more bang for their buck because the skilled players will now too generate more action. If without antes in full ring it's optimal to play 12-15% of hands, with antes it's like 18-20% or whatever. So assuming skilled players always play optimal, they still make for a more fun experience for the rec when they are not always just against overpairs but a wider range etc. I think it shoud be a no-brainer to have a some sort of ante structure similar to other sites.

I personally hate all the big ante **** they have on Stars, I'm not suggesting anything out of the ordinary. Iirc your antes currently are a bit smaller than most sites but I have no problem with that. The only problem is that they come to play way too late and it really makes the experience much less enjoyable for everyone. With 5k starting stacks it's those crucial levels from 50/100 to 100/200 when everyone has 20-50BB when you really want to have antes, otherwise it's just nit poker who no one likes. So just fix the structures a bit, start antes 2-3 levels earlier, keep them at 10% of BB or whatever they are currently, it's not a bigger deal than that but makes a huge difference imo.

I'm not sure if I'm following what you mean with the "We all know that early antes and big antes were introduced in the online world to speed up the games and to create interesting dynamic for certain level players". I'm pretty sure antes were introduced for the exact reason that the good players were playing too nitty (because it's optimal without antes) and that wasn't fun for anyone. Ante-less poker is basically about as predatory as it gets these days in tournaments, everyone's just waiting for the fish to make a mistake and punt 100BBs with top pair. I very highly suspect they were introduced so that regs could have more battles with each other.

PS. Lektor, I really liked your analogy about poker tournaments being like sporting events above, was too lazy to multi-quote.

Last edited by Chuck Bass; 12-07-2015 at 11:26 PM.
Chuck Bass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 06:49 AM   #71
ONLYRAISEAA
Pooh-Bah
 
ONLYRAISEAA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LATE DECEMBER BOYS
Posts: 4,867
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
Can you even just add color coding, like say you have five different colored balls you can mark people with? That way no one could do any kind of mass-exporting (doubt anyone would do that anyway) because colors mean different things to different people. Or if you wanted to make it really cool, you could have graphic symbols (no pokersite has this, I bet the recs would love it!). So you could mark someone as an actual fish logo, or donkey, or whatever.
wrong, 888 has this!

I see merit in this suggestion obv, but it doesn't seem like Unibet wants to do anything like this.
ONLYRAISEAA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 10:49 AM   #72
skicowboys
centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 156
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Hi Robin. Had my first experience of twitch last night. I'll give it another couple of weeks as I'm hoping it's an acquired taste! Again as it's my first experience I'm not sure what the butler league is all about.
Jamie mentioned 18 max tourneys and I see they are here today. It's a real disappointment that they are all turbos. Yes there is a market for these 3 minute donkfests esp. on Unibet (more casual players) but surely there's a market for standard 8 minute blind length tourneys too? Adrian

In answer to an earlier question, my 2p worth, 6 max tourneys play much better than 9 max. Just my opinion, but there is a better flow for me. I played the butler ones and the 6 handed b/h last night and felt I was always waiting for the action on the 9 handed

Last edited by skicowboys; 12-08-2015 at 10:50 AM. Reason: length
skicowboys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 11:32 AM   #73
UnibetRep
Unibet Rep
 
UnibetRep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
I played one between lessons today. Because it was 9-max it had already descended into push-fold at about the start of the final table - even though the level length is the same as the 5-max SNGs which don't do that very quickly, simply because in 5-max you get more playable hands per 3-minute level. Another way to think about it is you have 3 tables and 3 dealers chucking cards to 18 players, we are getting 50 percent more hands in than we would with 2 tables just 2 dealer chucking cards to the 18 players (actually it's even more because a hand takes a slightly shorter length of time when there are few people to fold pre-flop).

The one advantage of 9-max is it's easier to get that "competitive" achievement I was talking about in that wall of text of "final-tabling".

If you go with 9-max then the levels should be about 5 minutes long.

Other than that it was fine and it filled up nicely to 18 players in the opening few levels
€4 12 players cap, 6 max tournaments are up in the client today

Quote:
Originally Posted by neveren0ugh View Post
Props to the reps for replying to every single suggestion and/or feedback. Always great to have support guys who actually care what players think and listen to them.

Definitely needs more exciting stuff, at least once a week but I trust your schedule will improve/expand with time and growth.

One question - is the site available in all euro countries and if not, where can I see who can access it (im in a regulated market)?
Thank you. For your question it is best to contact Unibet support, because this might change once in a while. They are more than willing to assist you and are up to date on this matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bass View Post
Can you even just add color coding, like say you have five different colored balls you can mark people with? That way no one could do any kind of mass-exporting (doubt anyone would do that anyway) because colors mean different things to different people. Or if you wanted to make it really cool, you could have graphic symbols (no pokersite has this, I bet the recs would love it!). So you could mark someone as an actual fish logo, or donkey, or whatever. This is at least personally the vast majority of the reason why I don't play on Unibet, I don't have time to use pen and paper or some spreadsheet to write down what I think of everyone, and my "name memory" is nonexistent, I forget who's who as soon as they leave my table. I don't think this is at all just for regs fwiw, for example the note taking softwares people use in live tournaments (type "poker notes" in app store) are like 99% used by fish, every time you see someone use it on their ipad while playing it's some 50yo recreational player.


My account name (not poker name) is DreamOfHanna, I sent some emails and got a "we are looking into it" reply like 4 days ago and then nothing.



I honestly don't think it black and white even benefits the skilled player more. Like, it's another aspect that theoretically boosts a skilled player's edge since skilled players understand the math and why they should be more aggressive with antes. But in practice I think in many cases it actually makes the recs inadvertently play better, and fingers crossed I'm not just saying this. I mean, what's the most common mistake you think the recs make when they play? Yep, playing too many hands. With antes playing many more hands is actually justified. Recs especially love to call everything from their big blind. In ante-less poker they leak much more money doing that, when they call 80% of hands against 12% opening ranges. But with antes it's actually optimal to call like 70% of hands there. So in that spot they are accidentally playing better even if they don't realize why. That's perhaps the most obvious situation, but it applies to everything really. And they get me more bang for their buck because the skilled players will now too generate more action. If without antes in full ring it's optimal to play 12-15% of hands, with antes it's like 18-20% or whatever. So assuming skilled players always play optimal, they still make for a more fun experience for the rec when they are not always just against overpairs but a wider range etc. I think it shoud be a no-brainer to have a some sort of ante structure similar to other sites.

I personally hate all the big ante **** they have on Stars, I'm not suggesting anything out of the ordinary. Iirc your antes currently are a bit smaller than most sites but I have no problem with that. The only problem is that they come to play way too late and it really makes the experience much less enjoyable for everyone. With 5k starting stacks it's those crucial levels from 50/100 to 100/200 when everyone has 20-50BB when you really want to have antes, otherwise it's just nit poker who no one likes. So just fix the structures a bit, start antes 2-3 levels earlier, keep them at 10% of BB or whatever they are currently, it's not a bigger deal than that but makes a huge difference imo.

I'm not sure if I'm following what you mean with the "We all know that early antes and big antes were introduced in the online world to speed up the games and to create interesting dynamic for certain level players". I'm pretty sure antes were introduced for the exact reason that the good players were playing too nitty (because it's optimal without antes) and that wasn't fun for anyone. Ante-less poker is basically about as predatory as it gets these days in tournaments, everyone's just waiting for the fish to make a mistake and punt 100BBs with top pair. I very highly suspect they were introduced so that regs could have more battles with each other.

PS. Lektor, I really liked your analogy about poker tournaments being like sporting events above, was too lazy to multi-quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONLYRAISEAA View Post
wrong, 888 has this!

I see merit in this suggestion obv, but it doesn't seem like Unibet wants to do anything like this.
I get your point about coding and will throw this in the group, because I can see at least one reason for having something more than we have at the moment.

There is a difference between optimal ranges and exploitation. Let’s just put aside the discussion who will benefit for now, I agree keeping just one blind structure is not an option going forward. To deliver better play experience we will have to be more flexible with the structures and an early ante structure will be part of this.
UnibetRep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 11:58 AM   #74
UnibetRep
Unibet Rep
 
UnibetRep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by skicowboys View Post
Hi Robin. Had my first experience of twitch last night. I'll give it another couple of weeks as I'm hoping it's an acquired taste! Again as it's my first experience I'm not sure what the butler league is all about.
Jamie mentioned 18 max tourneys and I see they are here today. It's a real disappointment that they are all turbos. Yes there is a market for these 3 minute donkfests esp. on Unibet (more casual players) but surely there's a market for standard 8 minute blind length tourneys too? Adrian

In answer to an earlier question, my 2p worth, 6 max tourneys play much better than 9 max. Just my opinion, but there is a better flow for me. I played the butler ones and the 6 handed b/h last night and felt I was always waiting for the action on the 9 handed
Hi, cool you had your first experience of twitch last night! What the butler league is about? Jamie was called "the Butler" by several viewers in the chat of a stream he did with Viktor Blom playing on our site, while he was sitting next to him.

This is what Jamie has to say about the Butler league:
"The Monday night stream is just a bit of fun over three progressive bounty tournaments where the Unibet community can have some direct contact with one of our team and give any feedback that they might have, or aask any questions.

The league itself is over 3 €2 progressive bounty tournaments, where each player will get points depending on where they finish in each one. Those points are totalled and the top 10 players get a share of €300 in cash tickets the next day."

The 18 man tournaments I've set up as a test, there is no functionality for mttsngs or on demand yet. If you prefer 6 max? There are €4 12 players cap tournaments running today. Enjoy!
UnibetRep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2015, 12:35 PM   #75
LektorAJ
Pooh-Bah
 
LektorAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: none
Posts: 5,865
Re: **Official Unibet MTT Discussion Thread**

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnibetRep View Post
The 18 man tournaments I've set up as a test, there is no functionality for mttsngs or on demand yet. If you prefer 6 max? There are €4 12 players cap tournaments running today. Enjoy!
Really looking forward to the 12 man ones tonight.

I don't think you need to code new functionality. Having these capped tournaments in the main MTT tab is Nirvana compared to every other site where this kind of smaller tournaments have the problems of a) people not signing up when they don't know the starting time, and b) the tournaments being hidden along with STTs because they both have the same start-time algorithm and somebody decided that was a really important consideration.
LektorAJ is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online