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Old 05-25-2015, 01:36 PM   #151
FarseerFinland
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

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Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
Lessu,

As I said earlier satellites are a complex thing but on a positive note it seems that they are partially listening to my suggestions by reducing the size of the add ons. The blind levels aren't optimal (for most tourneys) from a business standpoint and there's little variation for satellites considering the projected end times of them in relation to the target MTT's. But so far a small step in the right direction.
Looks like you just gave them terrible disservice, then. Most rebuy-satellites that has 1,5x add-on like those WPT ones failed miserably, no players and constantly cancelling / overlaying. Ones having 3x or larger add-on had started and had had no or very little overlay despite some having much larger guaranteed prize pools. I don't know about freezeout sats because I don't play them.

Although I agree in other points. Blind levels aren't optimal. For instance in most regspeed tournaments starting phase lasts long, but interrim before going from deepstack to flipfest (20bb or less avg.) takes too few levels. For some larger tournaments and also rebuys Party could try using shorter levels first and longer levels during endgame. Also like in currently running 6k. rebuy there's levels starting 20/40 -25/50 - 30/60... please remove at least that 25/50.

Also there could be more offering in satellites and few more sub-sats to larger events. But by slashing add-ons you just alienate big chunk of your remaining potential player base which is a sure way to oblivion at current point.

For 200k. guaranteed it could be like 15 mins until lategame like after level 24 it could be changed to 20 mins. But I strongly oppose 20 minute blinds from the start, it just makes it last much longer for everyone with no real profit. Other option would be cutting around 20-25% of earlier levels while having 20 mins levels, but I'd prefer 15 mins / 20 mins more. I could even consider 12 mins blinds for first few levels if all those early levels are kept in.
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Old 05-25-2015, 02:45 PM   #152
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

By not offering a bigger add on it's true they will be slashing a portion of their player base and from a business standpoint that's a good thing. What you are asking for is a tourney where you get 11 units for the price of 2 and asking that recreational players buy 16 units for the price of 7. When you speak of value this is what you are talking about.

Hey I get it.. I play satellites full time and the system you propose is good for you and it's good for me... but that value that you speak of comes at the expense of the recreational player and we both know it.

You don't feel that same value entering a freeze out with 12k chips and blinds starting at 200-400 do you?

As per rebuy levels tons need to be removed from the current offerings. Late reg needs to be reduced in all rebuys. They need way more satellites that will result in less seats awarded per satellite, but a more diverse group of players winning.

The satellite program on Party is wrong business wise (from Party's perspective) in nearly all areas and this is why so many of their tourneys overlay.
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Old 05-25-2015, 06:26 PM   #153
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

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By not offering a bigger add on it's true they will be slashing a portion of their player base and from a business standpoint that's a good thing. What you are asking for is a tourney where you get 11 units for the price of 2 and asking that recreational players buy 16 units for the price of 7. When you speak of value this is what you are talking about.

Hey I get it.. I play satellites full time and the system you propose is good for you and it's good for me... but that value that you speak of comes at the expense of the recreational player and we both know it.

You don't feel that same value entering a freeze out with 12k chips and blinds starting at 200-400 do you?

As per rebuy levels tons need to be removed from the current offerings. Late reg needs to be reduced in all rebuys. They need way more satellites that will result in less seats awarded per satellite, but a more diverse group of players winning.

The satellite program on Party is wrong business wise (from Party's perspective) in nearly all areas and this is why so many of their tourneys overlay.
I don't actually play satellites that much, but they're great for me for 2 reasons: 1) they don't last too long (usually) and 2) they have rather nice prize structure to reduce variance. I also have not demanded 10x add-ons in turbos... I basically think they're stupid, but if there's one I of course participate to it. 10x is a lot different than 3x or 5x. In hypers they have some reason because it's not really pokerish to start with 2-3BB after add-on like in PokerStars.

And I don't like late regging freezeouts, because I basically hate giving around value + I don't want to sit in a table where everyone else basically has at least some reads from other players and I have none. On other hand I also hate it when table changes very often during late registration as new players pour in. I have played lots of freezeouts in 2005-2013, but it was a time BEFORE every damned site started to use late registration. Mainly in Entraction at that time.

If we look at rebuys in general, let's see like Stars.com: they're doing exactly what you suggest with their rebuys, .l And those rebuys are dying. Most removed from schedule, rest have had their guaranteeds slashed big time. Have been dying for a long, long time and their rebuy-satellites as well... except those 2x and 3x which offer very large add-ons. I don't see from "player field"-point much proof to your stance, quite the opposite.

Most recs don't play tournaments because it is "little more profitable" for them, they play to have fun and to have shot at and usually they don't have as much time to play poker as regulars (which is why I always have a saying "deep structure is not same as good structure to people who want to make every tournament Super Deep Stack). Most recs have like 2-3 hours to play in the evening (maybe 8-12 hours during weekend) and currently there are rather few MTTs @weekdays outside of satellites that are good for them. And it is not fun for most people to play some satellite or tournament with no or very few players, which will happen in Party if they continue slashing add-ons. There are also recs and new players who late register into rebuy-tournaments as we do and some good players who choose to try their playing skills during rebuy-time). But the main point is: like it or not, we need both: recs to keep some fresh money pouring in and regs to keep games going. And winning regs (and even more, recs with their occasional great wins) are also the greatest marketing asset for poker sites.

And even as I am winning player, I am much like recs: I play to have fun (mainly), I don't play boring games even if there's better value at it because I don't like spending my days . I occasionally play 50 hours in a week (like during Pokerfest), but most of the time I play mainly 1-3 evenings, usually playing for 2-3 hours and occasionally stopping a session because lose the spirit to play. Occasionally I like to 1-table at a freeroll and have a nice feeling to be good at what I do, even though from money perspective I know I should open more tables. I also have a habit to dislike sites that slash their promotions, even if from value-perspective their tournaments are good. It's not black and white, you know... especially in MTT games where probably around 0,1% are true "hardcore grinders".

And from business point, right now Party's problem number Uno by far should be at least retain their current player base and after that: to gain either new players or get old players to return. So I fully disagre with your "slashing a portion of their player base and from a business standpoint that's a good thing." because they don't even have enough liqudity at current point as summer heat drives people away. If they can't stop players running away it is "bye-bye Party and hello again, AmayaStars monopoly". And again thousands and thousands of players quit from poker.

Right now there's so many things amiss in Party that I can't tell. Most urgent: there's no promotions for players that would give them even that small temptation and incentive to play poker instead of going out and enjoy early Summer sun.
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Old 05-25-2015, 08:23 PM   #154
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

I'm pretty happy to play elsewhere right now. I don't feel valued whatsoever as a customer. Not to say I especially do at other sites, but less so here. So I will just throw in a few tables in from this site when I am desperate and I have a space. I do still like the 50freeze 10kgtd starting 9:30pmCET or is it 10? Even though it is re-entry now, it does at least make the guarantee most days. The other one I like is the 100 freezeout on a Sunday at 6PM CET, esp as there is no re-entry.

Basically instead of introducing a 1k with no sats and a guarantee for 30 people, there really needs to be a better mid and lower stakes schedule. Stuff to compete with and complement Big22, Monsoon, Ceratops etc

Clearly Stars, 888 and even full Tilt are doing better with their MTT schedule right now. Even ipoker has a better schedule. Whoever is in charge of the MTT schedule at Party should look at Stars and 888 and either fit the Party schedule around those sites to completment what is there and draw players over who multitable OR offer something different that people can't get anywhere else.

It would take 5 minutes for whoever is in charge of the MTT schedule at Party to make an account here and directly interact with players from their site. Instead it seems to have to be done through intermediaries.

A number of people offered possible ideas to improve things and basically every one was rejected by saying we think it is better the way we have chosen or the way it is now.

They already gutted the VIP programme once and reduced the value of the points, so I think that one is a dead end.

All I see happening now is that there will be a bunch of overlays now SCOOP is finished, quite soon the schedule will get cut back and gutted, reduced and the site treads water and bides time until it is taken over. This can only be bad for players. It's just a shame your site is making me hate it so much that I can't bring myself to put any volume in on there to support it.
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Old 05-25-2015, 10:14 PM   #155
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

am i really supposed to read all this ****
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Old 05-26-2015, 05:33 AM   #156
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

i think this thread is a level and party is just looking for more ways to piss of regs and get them off their site.
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:33 AM   #157
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

Just sell to 888 already and merge your player pool.

Least their software is bearable and are improving their schedule.

Party software far to tilting to even consider opening for me and alot of other people im sure.

Oh and those payouts... You don't need to pay 20% of the field.
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Old 05-27-2015, 12:58 PM   #158
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

Your late reg periods are way too long. Notice how in the seconds before late reg closes about another 10% reg? Well they're doing that with like 6bb because it is close to the money. And then they all timebank, and stall, and completely ruin the game, both from a fun view and a technical view. The bubble as a consequence, goes on forever. And we all have to wait for them to bust, meaning the average stack is like 10bb and it becomes a crap shoot. Not good. All solved if you close late reg earlier so it isn't profitable reg with 6bb and not play a single hand.
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Old 05-27-2015, 02:30 PM   #159
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

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Your late reg periods are way too long. Notice how in the seconds before late reg closes about another 10% reg? Well they're doing that with like 6bb because it is close to the money. And then they all timebank, and stall, and completely ruin the game, both from a fun view and a technical view. The bubble as a consequence, goes on forever. And we all have to wait for them to bust, meaning the average stack is like 10bb and it becomes a crap shoot. Not good. All solved if you close late reg earlier so it isn't profitable reg with 6bb and not play a single hand.
I've only dabbled in Satellites on Party... does this seriously happen in MTTs? If so for what sort of percentage? Just an oddball mistake tourney or is this the norm? If the latter it's no wonder Party is where it is.
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:47 PM   #160
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

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I've only dabbled in Satellites on Party... does this seriously happen in MTTs? If so for what sort of percentage? Just an oddball mistake tourney or is this the norm? If the latter it's no wonder Party is where it is.
A sizeable number. This was a $5. About 170 in the field with two minutes until reg close, blinds 200/400 starting stack 3k. Then reg closes and there is something like 186 as blinds go up to 250/500. One of them was placed at my table and he literally timebank folded every hand and I believe squeaked into the money.
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Old 05-28-2015, 02:13 AM   #161
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

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I've only dabbled in Satellites on Party... does this seriously happen in MTTs? If so for what sort of percentage? Just an oddball mistake tourney or is this the norm? If the latter it's no wonder Party is where it is.
Yeah like a year ago I lateregged to some small MTTs because they were so close to the money when latereg was still available. Some of the tourneys even had overlay. I'll bring this up tomorrow.

Is it just me or isn't 1hr40min latereg way too long for a tourney like this?

This is running atm

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Old 05-28-2015, 03:28 AM   #162
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

3mins before latereg ends. 41 left, pays 27

I know it's just a micro MTT but this can't be good, right?

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Old 05-28-2015, 04:30 AM   #163
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

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Hi all,

This month will see some change to our Sunday Major event - the $200K GTD will be reduced to $150K GTD

Changes to our qualifiers will go live on Monday 25th May - our first $150k GTD event will take place on Sunday 31st May

The buy in will remain the same.

Thanks

Colette

Hi all,

Just a brief reminder our Sunday Major will change this coming Sunday from a $200K GTD to $150K GTD as above.

Kind regards,

Colette
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Old 05-28-2015, 05:31 PM   #164
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

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3mins before latereg ends. 41 left, pays 27

I know it's just a micro MTT but this can't be good, right?

Yep. And if you take another screenshot in 3 minutes there'll be another 10 people in the tournament who will stall, slowing the tourney to a halt until the stacks are silly shallow and its pot luck.
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:44 AM   #165
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

Hi all

Our Summer Schedule will go live on Sunday 31st May

I would like to highlight some changes below as an FYI -

Saturday - NEW GTD 7.5K for $100, 12:30 5K bounty moved to 13:30

http://www.partypoker.com/whats-goin...ay-majors.html

Sunday - $150K, now $100K High Roller now $530 buy in, NEW Major @12:00 - $25K for $100 buy-in

http://www.partypoker.com/whats-goin...ay-majors.html

Daily - NEW 11:30 & 12:15, 5K and 3K for $100 and $50 respectively. The $20K ReBuy is now on a Mon & Tues with the 20K Re-Entry on Wed to Fri

http://www.partypoker.com/whats-goin...ly-majors.html

We have also added some 1/2 price re-buys throughout the week - these can be seen in the lobby

For all our full schedules please see the promotional pages on site

Thanks,

Colette
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Old 05-29-2015, 10:47 AM   #166
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

boom! moar rake, smaller prize pools. vam00o0o0o0o0o0oo0
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Old 05-29-2015, 07:26 PM   #167
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

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Just watched the structure of the 200k:
1: 20/40 ----------20min-------------------Better structure: 25/50 15min
2: 30/60 ---------------------------------------------------30/60 15min
40/80---------------------------------------------------------------40/80 15min
50/100--------------------------------------------------------------50/100 +10
5: 60/120 ------------------------------------------------------------60/120 +15
75/150-------------------------------------------------------------75/150 +20
100/200 +20-----------------------------------------------------100/200 +25
125/250 +25 ----------------------------------------------------125/250 +30
150/300 +30 -----------------------------------------------------150/300 +40
10: 200/400 +40 --------------------------------------------- 200/400 +50
250/500 +50 ----------------------------------------------------250/500 +60
300/600 +60 ---------------------------------------------------- 300/600 +70
400/800 +80 ------------------------------------------------------350/700 +80
500/1000 +100--------------------------------------------------- 400/800 +100
15: 600/1200 +125 ---------------------- 500/1000 +150
300Minutes played
750/1500 +150 ----------------------- 600/1200 +150 240Minutes played
1000/2000 +200--------------------------------------------------800/1600 +200
1250/2500 +250 -------------------------------------------------1000/2000 +250
1500/3000 +300 --------------------------------------------------1250/2000 +325
20: 2000/4000 +400 ------------------------------1,5/3k +375 300minutes
2500/5000 +500----------------------------2k/4k +500 20min
3000/6000 +600--------------------------------------------------2,5k/5k +625
4000/8000 +800-----------20min-------------------------------- 3k/6k +750
5000/10000 +1000 ----------------------------------------------3,5k/7k +875
6000/12000 +1200----------------------------------------------- 4k/8k +1k
25 7500/15000 +1500 ----------------------------------5k/10k +1250 20min
10000/20000 +2000 ---------------------------------------------6k/12k +1,5k
12500/25000 +2500 ---------------------------------------------7k/14k +1750
15000/30000 +3000 -------------------------------------------- 8k/16k + 2k
20000/40000 +4000 ---------------------------------------------10k/20k +2,5k
580 Min played -------------------------------------12,5k/25k +3125
----------------------------------------------------------------- 15k/30k +3750
------------------------------------------------------------------17,5k/35k +4375
-------------------------------------------20k/40k 580Min Played




On the left the Party structure right now, on the right a dirrerent structure which is a bit faster in the beginning, After level 15mins, left one played 300minutes while on the right when the same blindlevel is reached only 240 minutes is played.
After that you can increase the Blindlevels by a bit, which will improve the deeper stage while having some more blindlevels in it. After 20k/40k the structures both played for the same time but getting what basically everybody of us wanted, earlier stage faster and later stage deeper.

To be honest with you, i stole the structure from Pokerstars, but you guys do not have to spin the wheel in a new way, just watch what successfull sites are doing and implement those things into your shedule + add some specific PartyPoker features. Cool Names: The Big Party 200k: 200$ The HighRoller: 1k BountyParty 250+250 and so on.

It seems like you wanna be independet and do you own stuff, which i sperfectly fine when it would be good things.


At least for me its my last afford i put into this Thread, till you guys show at least some respect for your players and implement some of those things.

Its not like those sugesstions are falling from heaving, those are in the interest of all your players and even your company.


#lasttry
bring this strcuture for ALL your Sunday Majors, 200$ 150k 530$ 100k 100$ 40k/25k 50$ KO..................

SuperBounty on Sudays has 20min levels!! its way too long, change it too 15mins.

You changed the structure of the 200$ 150k, but the way you changed it is not acceptable. When you change the structure of the 200$ 150k, then its obv that you should change the 530$ 100$ ones as well.......

Your ealier Ante from 50/100 +10 is still missing in pretty much every tournament, bring it on! Players appreciate it.

50$ 15k on Sunday has still 3k starting, fix it to 5k.

50r on MO+Tu is nice, bring it back for WED-Sunday or enjoy your daily overlay in the 100$ 1RE

1/2 Rebuys are nice.

1k with 100k on Sundays, 95% of the players who play the 530$ are regulars which would play the 1k too, barely a rec is playing this one. So change the sunday 530 into a 1k

Bring a 350$ on Mo+We+Fr+Sa.

Tuesday is best day for a higher buyin like a 530$, most regulars are playing , cause 1k on Stars and 600 on 888.

Thursday would be a 350 KO a good variety.
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Old 05-29-2015, 07:36 PM   #168
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

yeah i agree, btw if you don't have the software to implement exponential levels, you could use the same level multiple times (i saw ipoker doing this once during ipops iirc)

def agree about that 50 super ko as well, just takes way too long to get interesting, and i'm not really interested in playing a pretty deepstacked mtt at peak hour on a sunday which has only 2-3k 1st or w/l
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Old 05-30-2015, 08:11 PM   #169
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

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yeah i agree, btw if you don't have the software to implement exponential levels, you could use the same level multiple times (i saw ipoker doing this once during ipops iirc)

def agree about that 50 super ko as well, just takes way too long to get interesting, and i'm not really interested in playing a pretty deepstacked mtt at peak hour on a sunday which has only 2-3k 1st or w/l
+1 this mtt has so much potential
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Old 06-01-2015, 11:37 AM   #170
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

These 1/2 price rebuys look awful, won't play them and I hope you make them regular with big add-ons again. Big add-ons are great nice to play them as freezeout with still quite deep stacks after add-on and turbo ones still won't last ages. Would love to play even more, even if guaranteeds would be a little smaller.
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Old 06-01-2015, 03:11 PM   #171
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

[QUOTE=PlasticPearl;47068302]Your late reg periods are way too long. Notice how in the seconds before late reg closes about another 10% reg? Well they're doing that with like 6bb because it is close to the money. And then they all timebank, and stall, and completely ruin the game, both from a fun view and a technical view. The bubble as a consequence, goes on forever. And we all have to wait for them to bust, meaning the average stack is like 10bb and it becomes a crap shoot. Not good. All solved if you close late reg earlier so it isn't profitable reg with 6bb and not play a single hand.[/QUOTE]

I dont think this strategy is profitable and if you believe it is why aren't you exploiting the hell out of it and keeping quiet?
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:02 AM   #172
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

Because it might be profitable to fold to a min cash but it's more profitable to play to win?
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Old 06-04-2015, 11:06 AM   #173
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

Hi all

I have the following round up to discuss with the team - anything to add Schmette?

• Improved structure for ALL Sunday Majors
• Super Bounty on Sundays decrease blind level - currently 20 mins change to 15 mins
• Early Ante from 50/100 +10 is still missing in pretty much every tournament
• 50$ 15k on Sunday has still 3k starting - change to 5k.
• 50r on MO+Tu is nice, bring it back for WED-Sunday
• 1k with 100k on Sundays, 95% of the players who play the 530$ are regulars which would play the 1k too, barely a rec is playing this one. So change the Sunday 530 into a 1k
• Bring a 350$ on Mo+We+Fr+Sa.


Thanks

Colette
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Old 06-04-2015, 11:44 AM   #174
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleGoliath View Post
yeah i agree, btw if you don't have the software to implement exponential levels, you could use the same level multiple times (i saw ipoker doing this once during ipops iirc)

def agree about that 50 super ko as well, just takes way too long to get interesting, and i'm not really interested in playing a pretty deepstacked mtt at peak hour on a sunday which has only 2-3k 1st or w/l
I think recs would prefe and are playing bc of 20min structure and I as a reg also don't see problems with 20 min structure and prefer it.
It starts in a peak hour and w/e blind levels duration is you still would have to play it in peak hours for quite long time. And after 5-6 hours in its not peak hour anymore so I don't get your point.

Ask for another major if you really don't have enough tournies to play on Sunday.
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Old 06-04-2015, 04:45 PM   #175
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Re: ****Official PartyPoker/Bwin 2015 MTT Discussion Thread****

LESS TIMEBANK IN TURBO/SUPER TURBO MTTS, PLAYERS TANK SO HARD DEEP IN THESE MAKES IT UNPLAYABLE FOR 1/2 HANDS PER LEVEL PLAYED
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