Guys,

How many tournaments per month are MTT pros playing? Let's assume someone is a 'pro' if they're making $40k/year at the minimum and aren't working another job.

What do you think the lowest (realistic) ABI would be for someone that would fit the above description? By 'realistic' I mean we'll assume someone won't be playing like 18 hrs a day for a prolonged period of time.

I ask this because I know how much of a b**** variance can be for MTTers, and I figure pro's with bills/families/etc. have to put in a substantial amount of volume in order to combat negative swings. 10,000 tournaments a year seem realistic? For someone playing 5 days a week that would work out to about 40 tournaments a day (seems unrealistic as hell...).

Here's what got my attention: http://www.nsdpoker.com/2011/01/mtt-pros/

Most alarming quote: "A 20% ROI player will be a loser over a 3,000 tourney sample almost 26% of the time." Seems 3,000 tournaments per year wouldn't cut it for someone grinding MTTs for a living...unless they're living with mom and pops or something. But getting up to 10,000/year, as stated above, averages out to like 40 tournaments a day 5 days a week...seems unrealistic.

Thoughts are welcome and appreciated!

to get a good idea about this, you can look into the monthly MTTc graph threads.

i think 10k tourneys/year are very doable if you play professionally and have a good work ethic. i played like 9.2k in the last 12months but some regs get that volume in in 3-4months. really depends on how long your sessions are and how many tables you can play somewhat comfortably.

btw: 20% ROI isnt too high for MTT pros, especially at lower ABIs. also noahs numbers arent applicable to small field MTTs.

i think you can make 40k/year with like a 10-15$ ABI if youre good and put in some volume (around 10k games/year).

playing less than 10k mtts a year while being fulltime at small/mid stakes should not qualify as playing full time

wat ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVuO4O1Hl6o&sns=em

Not all "MTTs played" are created equal. If youre 20 tabling your ROI won't be as high as if you're 10 tabling, there's a balance each person needs to find for themselves.

Thanks all, and interesting that one could win $40k annually playing 10k $10-$15 buy in events. I guess that would assume a 35% goal for ROI? That's far less daunting a figure than the 10,000 tourneys per year.

Even if one could maintain 35% ROI while ten tabling continually at an ABI of $12, that would still mean 40 tourney entries per day (5 playing days per week). 10 hours a day seem like a decent stab at what the above-described individual would be dedicating to poker? Ten tabling consistently for 10 hrs, day in and day out, would require near OD amounts of Adderall for me to stay engaged in that.

Then again, if said individual could beat $12 ABI for 35% ROI 10 tabling, said individual would certainly be burning value and $$$ by not moving up in stakes. Is that the secret? Are there no $40k/year low stakes MTT grinders, but instead $50k-$100k / year high ($100 ABI) stakes MTT grinders, maintaining 10%-20% ROI and logging 4k-5k tourneys a year?

Also, hypothetically, if one were able to maintain a 50% ROI at $8 ABI, could said person hypothesize what that might translate to for higher limits?

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How does 40 mtts 5 days a week sound unrealistic?
If poker is your job that is not even much. As parker already said 10k a year should be the minimum when you play for a living.


Regarding that noahsd link, its accurate, but like I and many others already said a dozen times, 3k games should not be more than maximum 3 months.


And yea, if you need adderal to play 10 hours a day poker is not for you, at least not until you develop a decent work ethic.

It's not as important how many tournaments you register for as it is important how much equity you get from the tournaments you do register.

Five 10hour sessions per week is a good baseline for what you should be able to do. How many tournaments you fill this time with depends on what you are playing and how good you are.

200 a week is a lot Marc.
all in all it depends on number of tables you multitabling and what tourneys are that.

Surely #bowlcompchamp plays >>>> 200/week when grinding.

OP play micro-m - great br boosters.

Ive made 30k/year with $30 abi and 10-15roi on 8-10k sample on euro-sites for 2years playing 3-4 days a week.

God, the potential of putting in 200 tourneys a week, playing A+ poker, and being in the red for 2-3 months makes me I'll to think about.

I'd love to try this eventually but doubt I ever will...think if it were to happen it would have been college. Think I'd do it if I could manage 20-25% ROI at a $35 ABI. I could play 6,000 tourneys per year, or around 20 per day, 5 days per week, and reasonably expect between $40k-$50k yearly. I guess $8-$10k starting roll would be ideal for this plan.

You guys mostly play Stars, or do you cherry pick at some of the juicy smaller sites also?

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you can def manage higher than 25% ROI at 35abi. Working on your game and getting better is very important.

Agreed that I could do it.. but could I while ten tabling 5 days a week 10 hrs a day? That I'm not nearly as sure about.

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These threads are always the same. The best thing you can do now is to start playing, as much as you can while working on your game instead of asking a million questions.

It's tough to put in short MTT sessions because that last tournament you register for could last 6+ hours. You probably shouldn't plan sessions to be less than 10 hours, but of course there will be plenty of days where you bust quickly and are done in 7.

If you can't play 5 days a week, what the **** are you doing with your life that makes you unable to play?

Doggz grinding is a natural ability like many others ones.

I myself (and I know other people) find it hard to play a lot on day in day out basis. Your game gets worse with each day, you lose your feel for cards(hands).
And yes of course some people can probably play two weeks in a row w/o any inconvinience.

Seabeast posted good stuff about that several months ago (when Miiiikkka was deep in .......)

Ive got horrible memories how I climbed really high during 1st week of wcoop last year peeking at playing ton of $98 or 89 sng hyper satties and felt down hard in last week just spewing most events + second chances and ton of satties having generally pretty modest br.

I said 5 days a week, not grinding every day clicking buttons on lolhypers.

And I think grinding is a skill you can get better at, even if there is some natural ability tied into being able to focus and concentrate on one thing for many hours per month. I know that personally over the years I've improved a lot wrt how long I can play. When I was 20 and making tons of money I played 2 or 3 hours a day a couple days a week and didn't have the tolerance for more than 4 hours in a day. Now I can play well for at least 6 hours and regularly play 10 hours per day.

makes little difference to what Ive said if you have read it.
(I played wcoop, other mtts and hyper satties if its not clear)

#nitpicking

Not the first time, missing a bit what you're trying to achieve.
I can easily accept you're smarter person and more experienced in poker for your pleasure if it will help to improve level of our conversations.

Got your point generally.

I already know that your infinity smarter then you sound at the end of your post so I'll just input my opinion which might be just as idiotic.

Anybody taking a dangerous drug like adderal when you have no medical reason to do so is idiotic and it will do a lot of damage to your insides. Make sure you have proper diagnosis and your family involved with the diagnosis to make sure you indeed require a strong medication like amphetamine salts to maintain a normal level of focus throughout the workday. For some this drug can be wondrous and open up doors you could not reach prior and to think that somebody is lacking work ethic because of it is irresponsible and narrow minded. I guess in a perfect world where we all think and operate the same it would have substance and relativity but I don't live in that world and not even close.

Also if you have a lot of problems with focus during the workday and you yawn a lot/feel overly tired. Sleep test in a medical clinic could be in order as there could be sleep problems causing this as well which could be corrected without the use of legal narcotics.


Some of us have obsession with master bating 20 times a day. Makes it hard to grind 10 hours.
Or
Writing a tell all book one or the other it usually is

I don't get many of you in the thread. First, it's obvious this question depends a lot on the economy in which you live but come on, 10k games for 40k ? You can play a lot less, a lot better, cherry picking from multiple sites and still do it imo.

Of course there are a few ppl 20 tabling with the same quality play as if they were playing 4 tables but you can probably count them on one hand.

You can't develop your game on the fly playing that many, so on top of those 10hr/day you'll need another 4hr/week for review. There's the brute-force approach and there's the smart approach imo.

Also, I d..do...don't stutter.

Agree with those saying that 10k games/year is basically the minimum you should be playing if you're grinding anywhere between a $10-80 ABI or so, but I do think there are a select few sickos who can play 5k games/year at a $200 ABI or whatever and make more money that way.

It really does all depend on your ROI though. If you're really ****ing good at MTTs, you can afford to make decisions that raise your level of variance, like playing more tables at once or playing lower volume overall. If you're mediocre, or you're playing lower buyins or turbos where the fields are bigger and the variance is greater, then you'll need to play much more volume in order to compensate for that.

There are plenty of players for whom 20-tabling at a $30 ABI is optimal, and there are plenty for whom 8-tabling at a $70 ABI is optimal. It's all about finding what's best for you. Having said that, no matter how many tables or what ABI you're playing, if you think playing 10-hour MTT sessions is extreme then you just don't want it badly enough.

Thanks everyone, good feedback and well appreciated.

Sky: I hear what you're saying about less volume and better game selection but still wonder about quantity. Assuming you can pick the best weekly's from a hand full of different sites while playing 75% on Stars where the traffic is good enough to sustain a pro, how many tourneys do you think one needs to play? I'm assuming this has to be pretty quantified by those relying solely on poker to pay bills eat etc.

Thanks...am really merely curious and interested.

5k games/year - csb.

Guys like Ben (Benjamin) can play scoop, wcoop, WSOP mixing it with $109 turbos and big109+ to have enough money to start hating their lives.

I think the way to go to mitigate variance is like 75% of time/BR dedicated to SNGs...particular flavor dependent on your personal strengths...and 25% to your cherry picked MTTs. Suppose they could overlap too, but you get the idea.

How often is it done similarly to the above described strategy? This should essentially cancel the potential for 2+ month losing streaks, right?

IDK, I have around 8k mtts lifetime and close to 40k in profits across 6 sites with an ABI of ~$8, and didn't bink anything above $4k. Considering that half those games were played when my game was miles behind of where I am now, I find it hard to believe I can't achieve the same results with a higher ABI and less games, so I guess that's where I'm coming from, but who knows, I might be running on the high end of the variance.

Also, on I think you wrong about 75% stars volume, but again, this is subjective since I'm only slightly above break even there after ~2k games (which is pretty std) b/c of huge fields, better regs, etc. and I was accustomed to lower fields, lower variance, softer games, and no way in hell b/e after 2k games.I think you'd be better off going for 100%, mixing in some sngs if necessary and just go for SN, if that's where you want to play most.