I play mainly cash games, but I have to admit MTTs have more "wow" factor for me. They just seem more exciting, less dull than cash games. Probably the lure of the big score (if I ever get one) is a big part of it.

Anyway it is obvious some people are way better at MTTs than others, and yet as a cash game player I'm having a hard time quantifying what it is that makes them better. To my untrained eye it just looks like those at the final table of a big tournament simply ran good and won most or all of their coinflips.

Whenever I make it deep in a tournament, I always seem to get knocked out by some big stack who beats my JJ with his AQ, or who pushes all in on a draw and hits his flush on the river. But then again - he had the bigger stack so he had more margin for error. So maybe the key is, get lucky early?

So I guess I'm asking what approach the top MTTers take. Do you actively look for coinflip situations early, in an attempt to build a big stack? Do you gladly call a push with a pocket pair or AK, looking to race and double up?

I realize there's no secret formula, but it just seems like luck is such a huge factor in MTTs that I'm having a hard time identifying what makes a select few so damn successful at them.

I'm not a top mtt player but I would have to guess that not spewing especially in the high blind stages, and knowing how to maximize fold equity would be high on the list of skills the great mtters have.

Firstly, the edge a competent player has in MTTs is the fact that, even at the highest buyin levels, they are stuffed with players that have a very poor grasp of fundamental poker concepts - and consistently make huge mistakes that are easily identifiable and massively exploitable. This manifests itself in the fact that:

- Early on players play too loose; overvalue hands when deep; play too much oop etc, etc;
- Late on players play too tight; don't properly understand the maths of pot equity and hand ranges - don't understand when to pushbot;
- Or play too loose and still want to call raises or openlimp when it is hugely unprofitable to do so;

Therefore, success can be found in MTTs by just playing fundamentally correct poker and making less mistakes than your opponents.

Now, obviously, the fuller your grasp of theory; the better your level of experience; the more creative you can be and the sharper your instincts are; and the more aggressively you attack your opponent's leaks and idiocy - the greater your edge will become.

So, to directly address your post, it may seem that it's just a luckfest. And the variance of large runner / quick structure MTTs is always going to be huge - so short term card distribution is inarguably a factor. But over the long haul it is all about making plus EV decisions. And if you keep getting it in good and play a ton of volume your results will eventually get there and be a big winner - by virtue of inevitabillity getting there in the end.

Poker Stars $3.00 $0.30 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t1500/t3000 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: t59655
BB: t41482
UTG: t46712
UTG+1: t162428
UTG+2: t40113
Hero (MP1): t60894
MP2: t48582
CO: t68659
BTN: t36264

Pre Flop: Hero is MP1 with A A
3 folds, Hero raises to t7777, 2 folds, BTN raises to t35964 all in, 1 fold, BB raises to t41182 all in, Hero calls t33405

Flop: (t122528) 6 3 K (3 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t122528) K (3 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t122528) 9 (3 players - 2 are all in)




No valid hand data could be detected
No valid hand data could be detected

i have two words for you...

vol-ume

It's simple: you CANNOT win a tournament unless you win your flips.

And not just winning flips but sucking out big time too is an important skill to master. Two Vs: variance & volume.

flips, good timing and the ability to administer coolers. if these 3 things are in your favor then you will have success in that tournament. that of course is assuming you already have a grasp of fundamental tournament poker.

avoid coin flips early, steal and re-steal like a bandit in the middle, get lucky at the end.

If you are great at the first two, you will get more shots at the 3rd.

It's hard to give a simple answer to this without sounding like an idiot.

Yes, winning flips is essential in winning poker tournaments, but good players use strategies that allow themselves to avoid taking more flips than they need to. Understanding how to play against (and with) varying stack sizes both in relation to the blinds and the average stack at the table is the key to those strategies.

Lol. If you ever watch the super lagtards like Zangbezan or Puffinmypurp play, one of their strategies is to take as many flips & 60/40's as possible to build monster stacks.

Like everything in poker it's situational, you pretty much have to be willing to flip when the blinds get big in most online MTT's, but just taking crazy risks on (assumed) flips early when the stacks are deep is probably not a good idea. I'm not really a fan of taking a 50-50 when I'm 20+BB's deep, but sometimes I will if I feel risky or just want to spite call someone.

Yes, that's my point... it seems like the only way to win is either a)win every single flip, or b)build such a large stack that you can afford to lose a flip or 2 late.

So it makes me wonder if the common wisdom of "tight and conservative in the early stages" is really the correct strategy. Since the real money is all at the final table, it might make sense to gamble it up early and trade more frequent early bustouts for a less frequent bigger stack late.

I think you're being somewhat "results oriented" here. Obviously getting a lot of top 3's and wins is heavily dependant on winning crucial late stage flips. But putting yourself in the best situation to be in those late stage spots is definately not about just winning every flip early in a MTT.

Two words: Runner runner. OK, 1 word twice.

Those that do well consistently simply play more MTTs than others do. The only edge that a "better player" has is that, well, they're better. Meaning they make +EV plays deep and give themselves a better shot than the idiots that play a high volume as well. Luck is far superior to skill in tournaments. All that you can do is play more and play +EV every time.

fyp

but seriously, it works out that once you build one of these monster stacks you avoid the risk of busting out the next time you flip, along with the added benefit of having chips to make more elaborate plays.

flip a coin that has a 55% chance of heads 10 times. Decent chance of hitting 9 heads?

Run the experiment 5000 times. Do you hit nine heads more often than someone flipping a fair coin? Yes.

MTTs are at least as much about accumulating chips without showdown as winning flips, but to the extent that they are about winning flips, the answer is volume. You win when you run really good, but you run good more often when you get your money in ahead on average.

Also, even the plays that win you pots without showdown are susceptible to luck; you can run good or run bad in terms of opponents who fold most of their range in a situation happening to have a huge hand in a pot worth, say, 25x buyin in equity.

But the long run in big multis is very very long; there's no disputing that.

if you were able to take a 60/40 every time it was presented to you early in a tournament, you would immediately be one of the top tournament poker players in the world.

this is not even close to debatable, and i refuse to believe that anyone who thinks otherwise is a winning player.

Stealing pots as often as profitably possible, even early, helps me survive the 55/45s later on. If I can build a big stack early I have more weapons at my disposal later to allow me to keep accumulating chips.

all of it

a whole lot of MTT success is winning flips

a whole lot of MTT skill is identifying when you have good equity and building a big pot with it

123

It's more about holding your 75% spots then flips in this modern age.

nah i think its all about the 40/60s