What is the standard amount of mtts played per day for a low to mid stakes mtt reg nowadays? Also what about how many tables at once? People seem to mention its never a good thing to play more than 10 table max... people seem to say 8 table should be the absolute max. Now even if you are playing that many tables, i can't imagine someone putting in volume by playing 10 tournaments a day or less? However the issue is say you play 20 tournaments a day. Well let say you still haven't busted any of your tables and now have 15 tables running etc. So you unreg any new tables until you bust your old tables?


Also those ppl that play 40 or 50 mtt a day, i would assume decent amount of these has to be turbo or hyperturbo or satellites? How could one even play 40 mtt a day reg speed? Because if you do, well aren't you going to have at least 15 tables running at once at the minimum midway through your session? Then you might even have 25 tables or more? Also if someone even plays 15 tables at once, aren't most going to be pretty tight and nitty?


Also are most of these tournaments small field or big field? Also what is considered small field mtt nowadays? Like 200 players or less? Or 500? So there are guys that play mtt only and avoid all hots, bigs, bounty builder with those big gtds? However if you do that, wouldn't that mean the other tournaments are reg infested since the big gtds generally have weaker players?

^ reading comprehension is not your strong suit. You haven't answered the question at all.

I remember people playing ~50 MTTs at the same time back in ~2010 which was micro stakes up to high stakes. & I am sure even these days you can play up to 30+ MTTs at micro stakes - low stakes by playing some basic abc nit poker and end up making profit.
& you obvisouly have to mix in a bunch of turbo MTTs if you play that many tables.

Small fields are in my opinion MTTs with up to ~1000 players.
& it depends skipping bigs & hots etc. isnt really always the case since a lot of Bigs have small fields aswell. & that MTTs which are big/hot are not softer is definetly a thing at mid & high stakes, but definetly not at micro - low stakes.

But honestly, if you try to find profitable small field tournaments I wouldnt try to avoid Bigs/Hots etc. Just play earlier when less people are online and fields are smaller. & mix in some other pokersites aswell.

I don't think it is easy to make $40k from online MTTs in the current game.

I'll use the $20 to $60 stakes for an estimation, there are plenty of these games available and they can be easily multi-tabled.

If I look at the OPR leader boards for Pokerstars, 'Gold' (ie, $20 to $60 level games), for 2018, there are a few players on the first page of results pulling in a profit of $40k+.

Some don't show profit but there are approx 40 on this first page that do, I would estimate perhaps 60 in total. Nearly all of these are on the top part of this page and have an OPR rank of 99.98% out of a total playing public of 150,332 (Gold players).

Most of these players seem to have played between 2000 and 5000 Gold level games in the year.

So the 99.8% score is equivalent to being a 1 in 500 quality player. Most of these $40k players will have reached this by having a 'lucky' year, if you follow through to the individual players page this is backed up by many having a negative roi for 2017.

There is a tremendous bias toward the lucky players in this first page of results but this doesn't really matter much to this discussion as the actual true 99.98% quality players will often be on later pages and be seen with scores of 75%+, given time over a decade of results they will outperform the temporarily lucky ones but will then typically have similar levels of results to the ones seen now so using these results for this estimate seems ok.

So it seems to me that the top 0.02% or about 1 in 500 can perform this feat at Pokerstars. Ok they may also play on softer sites but these sites don't run as many games so quantity would reduce profit.

If you do look at the individual player pages for earlier years you can see that many of these 2018 big winners have negative roi's for 2017. To get a reasonably accurate estimate of roi (say +/-5%) in 200+ seat games you need samples of 50k games as the variance is huge.

So 1 in 500 could do it but they will see such wide variance that it is a very stressful way of earning it, unless independently wealthy. Some top 0.02% players playing 4k games see a windfall and earn $100+k others will only break even. I doubt if the lucky ones stash away $30k of this to see them through the lean years but rather think they are the bee's knee's and see themselves in the top 0.001% of players deserving of such yearly windfalls. Most will earn $30k to $50k but a bad year will be a hard blow to any.

Playing at higher stakes and hence smaller fields will reduce variance measured in buy-ins but not variance by $ amount, and here the problem is getting to be a top quality player in the much harder pool of players. Overall, MTTs are not going to be easy.

Not sure about math, but the last time i checked 0,02% was not 1 in 500. Maybe guys who struggle with simple math shoud not comment on a math based game

Oh yes, I probably should have multiplied the 0.02 by sqrt(100/ln(e)). A silly mistake

I agree with BaseMetal. If you have a good year you can make that amount. If you have a bad year, nope.

So the question should be: How hard is it to average 50k/year nowadays?
I also think that people generally underestimate the impact of these so called "bad nit regs". They still take lots of money out of the poker economy and winning chips of bad regs is still a lot harder than winning chips of netdepositing recreational players.

The issue with doing it like this is that you're only looking at one site. Even looking at the bottom of the first page, the 249th best Stars $20-60 player has a 33% ROI. It's unrealistic to think that that player isn't playing on other sites.

So it basically becomes a math problem. If you can win at a 30% ROI, and you want to make 50k, you need to play 166.66k in buy ins in a year. If you are playing a 30abi, that's 5555 games a year. If you play 5 sessions a week for 45 weeks, that means that you'd have to play 25 games, on average, per session. It's not insanely difficult, but it is grueling, and requires you to have a very high skill level to start.

Hi

Found some post on page 34 I m gonna reply to


I play 12 tables at avg buyin 100$, usually 40-50 mtts a day, usually 3 sessions per week.

I ~never play satellites

I “rarely” play turbos and basically never play hypers. Exception being the very very back end of my session, Glück in like two or three turbos to not get bored one tabling. I d say 94% is regspeed these days

1. First off, how many mtt a day is the typical grinder playing on average? People say 40 is insane and i agree that would be too much if you mean regular speed ones... i mean can you even get that many at low and midstakes together? If you think about it, 20 tournaments a day seems a lot already but ppl say that is very little. So im guessing its about 25-30 tournaments a day? What about a mid stakes player? Like about the same? But if its a high stakes player, im guessing its more like 10-15 mtt a day max? Its probably like 10 tournaments max because you have to put lot of concentration right?



2. Also, in these tournaments, do you discount hypers and turbos? If you play turbos, then you could put much more volume easily but ppl say thats a joke to play those. i don't understand the dislike for turbos. You can win a good amount in short time like hypers. What about satellites? Say its a smaller buyin sat to a bigger buyin tournaments like the big 55, 109, bounty builder 109 or hot 55 etc. Doesn't seem that bad when you put in 1/10 or 1/5 of the buyin to try to win a seat there right? However even if you are not good enough to beat the satellite tournament, well you get in for a cheaper price. Thoughts on this?



3. The big issue is this. Let say you play 25 tournaments a day on average for a low-mid stakes player. Well how many tables are you playing at once? People say its bad to play more than say 12 tables. Then you have some ppl playing 20 tables. Others say 8 while others say 6. I think 6 tabling probably should be the minimum amount. But the issue is if you play 25 tournaments a day, many times you would get 12 or 15 tables running at once. Or even 20 if you dont bust the other ones. So you just not reg any tables if you haven't busted the other ones? For me, i would reg all the mtt i would play for the day early on. I play mostly low and a few mid stakes mtt only. Still, if you don't go over 8 tables, then how can you get in volume that way? Now if you play low-mid stakes, you probably won't even get more than say under 350 dollar in buyins. And ppl say its hard to get a big roi so how can you make much money with say 350 dollars worth of buyins a day if you play say 20 mtt for the day?

4. Types of Tournaments. So people say avoid stars and play anywhere else. Also ppl say don't play bigs, hots etc. Also many say lower average field size. I understand the field size thing b/c of variance. The issue though is if you don't play those tournaments, then what kind of tournaments are you playing? Because aren't tournaments that are not bigs, hots etc going to be tougher? What are good value tournaments to play? Because isn't good value the hots, bigs, bounty builders etc? Also if you look at partypoker, they have bounty builder with decent gtd and 888poker has a few of those big fish tournaments. The issue is those tournaments have at least 700 players minimum. So is that even smaller field size? People say play 500 players or less or even 200 players or less. If you play those, not only is prize pool smaller, but isn't the competition much stronger? What rec player would want to play tournaments like that?



5. How do you guys handle playing only regspeed? You don't make the money until 3 hours at the very minimum... this is on stars. If its partypoker or 888, its going to be 4-5 hours to be itm. I mean many times you can play 3 hours in many tournaments and bust and not be ITM. But if you play turbos or something quicker, well you can get win/losses much faster.


6. To the person that they play 12 tables at avg buyin 100 dollars and 40-50 mtt a day. Wait so your lowest buyin is probably like 33 dollars and highest is like 530 or something? How do you play 40-50 mtt a day if you play 12 tables on average? How many times have you had 20 tables running? Or the moment you have 12 running, you don't reg anymore or unreg any upcoming ones? I could understand you playing that many if you play lot of turbos or hypers but how do you do that playing reg speed? Because aren't you going to rarely play that many mtt a day if you are 12 tabling?



7. How many regs low and midstakes are making 40-50k a year? I could imagine high stakes players doing it pretty easily. Low stakes seem to be much harder because wouldn't that require you to play heavy volume and thus at least 12 table minimum?

questions

He probably read this article.

https://www.stroudinternational.com/...upid-questions

Franko I discovered your true identity:

Franko Škugor is a Croatian professional tennis player who mainly has played on the ATP Challenger Tour, and also specialized in doubles. He is best known for very powerful serve up to 230 km/h along with very strong groundstrokes.

It's quite hard. As you can see in this post, most say: "Yeah, ez game, just play abi 100 roi 50% 1000 games/year and it's done"... no one says "yup, I have done it, consistently".

Pretty silly question as it depends entirely on your skill set. I know many guys who have done way more than this for 5-10 years straight and are close a lock to do it this year again. There are also many grinders who have close to no chance of doing this.

I guess in summary, its pretty hard if you're a weak reg, but if you're anywhere close to being good enough to be a legit pro, its not difficult at all.

Literally nobody said this.

There are many people who are capable of making that much per year, but only a few are willing to invest that much time for such a big volume.

So if you say that its "hard" because of the amount of time you have to invest in, then Id agree.
But from the standpoint of required skill-level to archive this, its more easy than hard since you can basically play abc-nit-poker on low-mid stakes.

Some people still play 100+ Games a day......

Blaakman08 just posted his stats for last 5 years. Looks like he was averaging around 60K a year. Yet people still say its easy.

I think this is an interesting discussion, but I feel like if you are putting in that kind of volume (hours) to play small stakes MTT, you could put those same hours into being a UPS delivery driver or some other manual labour job and get more with all the overtime you would be putting in. If you are hardworking an smart enough to figure out the online games and disciplined to put in that many hours, there has to be a better job that would make you more money.

Also, if you can put in that volume and be small stakes MTTs, wouldn't it make more sense to play small stakes cash games? You would make more doing that.

I think the best bet to be most profitable in MTTs is to play the softest games (eg. Sunday Million and other special tournaments that attract the fish).

What youve pointed out here is one of the main reasons why a lot of regs already left poker and also why more and more people start with giving coachings sessions & stream on twitch to have additional income sources for the time they spent.

The amount of time it costs to archive such a high 5 figure score is maybe too much compared to a normal job with similar income.

But as you said its a very interessting topic. Especially when it comes to the comparison to a normal job and as you said the skill level a person has who is able to make that much in poker and how much he could make in a normal job with those skills he has.

I don't think this is a fairly done comparison.

Sure the UPS driver has more guaranteed income and a more "steady" job, but he is also far more capped at his highest income, poker is not. You can get into staking, coaching, playing live, being staked etc. There are many ways you can multiply or amplify the poker job, there is no such thing for a UPS driver.

Besides, I don't think the poker dream is "ok how can I grind 50 SNGs all day every day until I die," but more so "how can I save up 2-300k, then start branching out into coaching, staking, playing live and putting in some volume online to give myself a solid baseline."

Yes ofc if we just take playing poker as the only part of this discussion, it's honestly not a great job if done alone, however if we consider all the possibilities that come with poker, it is definitely more attractive (depending on how you weight priorities) than a UPS driver because if done right it can pay huge dividends, no such thing exists for UPS drivers who will be working 40 hours till they die or retire.

Saving up to 2-300k of 50k/year will take some time. 50k $ are about 44k€. That's 3.6k€ gross a month. That is decent in low wage or emerging countries. In a country like Germany where you would have a great deal of social security coming with your salary that is not enough to be worth the risk that comes with poker(further market segregation, legal problems and so on). Not saying a standard job is without risk but it is more manageable. Making that money you also need to have a bankroll depending on your ABI. Where did that come from? I probably wouldnt even thinking about it if I couldnt make at least 5k€ a month. So now we are talking about almost 70k/year. Yeah you have a lot of freedom in poker but if you calcaluate all the additional hours you have to put in but dont make money your average per hour goes down significantly. Not to mention with 3.6k€ gross there wont be so much money left after paying your taxes, rent, insurances and the other stuff to make expensive trips every now and then or live like a baller if you are into that.