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Old 01-27-2010, 11:19 PM   #1
BigRiskky
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Five Diamond Petition Failure

I just heard back from the Bellagio on the Petition to change there April schedule. They have decided not to make any changes at this time.

I know I will not be playing this series, but I will de looking into other Casinos using the proposed schedule i presented Bellagio. It is as Follows:

8-10 No Limit Hold-em Freeze-out tournaments Ranging from $500-$5,000
4-6 No Limit Hold-em Re-buy tournaments Ranging From $500-$1,000
2 Pot Limit Omaha Re-buy tournaments one $1,000, and one $3,000-$5,000
1 Limit Omaha Hi/lo tournament ($1,500 was a huge success in Dec.)
1 HORSE tournament ($5,000 was also a huge success in December)
1 No Limit hold-em Heads-up event

Please post any imput or thoughts you have on the subject.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:26 PM   #2
plo ufo
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

Where is the Bellagio?

If this Bellagio establishment is actually a real place why would they NOT use that genius schedule you proposed?!
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:42 PM   #3
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

Thanks for the effort on this Scott. I signed the petition and I def. won't show up for any of this mess. I didn't think Bellagio turnouts could get much worse, but this series should prove me wrong.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:43 PM   #4
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

Sorry to hear that Scott, I will also be skipping the Bellagio series now as a result. Thanks for making the effort though.

If you want my personal thoughts on your current proposed schedule, I'm curious as to why you think a PLO Rebuys in the range of $3,000-$5,000 is a good idea. I don't see such a tournament pulling in enough runners for the hosting casino to take it seriously in the lineup. IIRC the $5k PLOr at Bellag only drew 1 table worth of players?

I would prefer something more along the lines of a $500r/$1kr, and a sixmax freezeout between $3k-$10k hinging on however many runners you anticipate at the given buyin.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:55 PM   #5
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

probably because Scott is a PLO GOD and would pwn that tourny
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:56 PM   #6
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
Sorry to hear that Scott, I will also be skipping the Bellagio series now as a result. Thanks for making the effort though.

If you want my personal thoughts on your current proposed schedule, I'm curious as to why you think a PLO Rebuys in the range of $3,000-$5,000 is a good idea. I don't see such a tournament pulling in enough runners for the hosting casino to take it seriously in the lineup. IIRC the $5k PLOr at Bellag only drew 1 table worth of players?

I would prefer something more along the lines of a $500r/$1kr, and a sixmax freezeout between $3k-$10k hinging on however many runners you anticipate at the given buyin.
This. Also Scott, aren't you Canadian? The Niagra casinos could use some more tournament series action iyam. Approach some of them.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:04 AM   #7
BigRiskky
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
Sorry to hear that Scott, I will also be skipping the Bellagio series now as a result. Thanks for making the effort though.

If you want my personal thoughts on your current proposed schedule, I'm curious as to why you think a PLO Rebuys in the range of $3,000-$5,000 is a good idea. I don't see such a tournament pulling in enough runners for the hosting casino to take it seriously in the lineup. IIRC the $5k PLOr at Bellag only drew 1 table worth of players?

I would prefer something more along the lines of a $500r/$1kr, and a sixmax freezeout between $3k-$10k hinging on however many runners you anticipate at the given buyin.
You are very correct, I will make sure to note this. I put this in because of the prizepool Bellagio got last time. It was a smaller field, but it did get 19 players with 48 rebuys, for a healthy prizepool.
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Old 01-28-2010, 12:06 AM   #8
BigRiskky
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

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Originally Posted by NeverScaredB View Post
This. Also Scott, aren't you Canadian? The Niagra casinos could use some more tournament series action iyam. Approach some of them.
I am not Canadian, but live close to the Border in WA State. If I can help get more tournaments there in the future, I will sure try.
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:30 AM   #9
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

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Originally Posted by BigRiskky View Post
You are very correct, I will make sure to note this. I put this in because of the prizepool Bellagio got last time. It was a smaller field, but it did get 19 players with 48 rebuys, for a healthy prizepool.
Isn't this part of the reason they decided to go with the all-rebuy format?
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:47 AM   #10
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

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Originally Posted by phunkyplum View Post
probably because Scott is a PLO GOD and would pwn that tourny
He is also not so so shabby at the LO8 variety or PL08 and jsut took down the triple stud at PCa but did not propose these as additions to the schedule. Think Scott did out of concern and love of the Bellagio not selfish reasons.
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Old 01-28-2010, 01:59 AM   #11
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

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Originally Posted by Kevmath View Post
Isn't this part of the reason they decided to go with the all-rebuy format?
It's pretty much exclusively why, aswell as the good turnout from the 1kr NL.

The worst analogy I can come up with right now is it's like serving an 18 course meal, and when hearing of how everyone raved about the Foie Gras, insisting that the next meal be 18 servings of Foie Gras.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:13 AM   #12
BigRiskky
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

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Originally Posted by Kevmath View Post
Isn't this part of the reason they decided to go with the all-rebuy format?
I agree that the rebuys were a success, they need to tweak how they do them for time concerns( the addons took an hour), but I thnk you lose a lot of the Bellagio regs by making it exclusively 1k rebuys.

Thanks highland Fox, I do enjoy playing at Bellagio, and make it to every one of there events. I also really enjoyed the rebuys, and would like them to continue running some every series.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:19 AM   #13
MaverickUSC
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

Not playing. WTF Bellagio. Jack have you lost your mind?
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:46 AM   #14
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

i actually might never play at the bellagio again, i used to like it there too

edit: maybe hard rock would run your series?
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:50 AM   #15
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

I would of defintiely considered coming out it it was similar to the December schedule but now probably doing NAPT Mohegan since its a 3 hour drive and will have fields of more than 30 mostly competent players. Is actually asking that question neccessary Devo?
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:52 AM   #16
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

This might be the first time that I've ever actually rooted for a tournament series to fail miserably...
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:59 AM   #17
coinflipper
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

im more then pissed about this series, the last series really helped to fix their broken image like thye were heading down the right path again, then they go and do this def not going, the original schedule posted on cardplayer for this series was soooo much better
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:15 AM   #18
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
I would prefer something more along the lines of a $500r/$1kr, and a sixmax freezeout between $3k-$10k hinging on however many runners you anticipate at the given buyin.
+1

On the topic of plo tourneys, it wbn if every single one was 6 max. I understand that 6 max tourneys increase casino costs, but I imagine an increase in field size might compensate for this? I could be off base here, as I'm not really sure how the casual players feel about 6 max vs FR, but it sure would be a dream come true if I never had to play another FR 4 card tourney.
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Old 01-28-2010, 11:25 AM   #19
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton View Post
it's like serving an 18 course meal, and when hearing of how everyone raved about the Foie Gras, insisting that the next meal be 18 servings of Foie Gras.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP OSU View Post
This might be the first time that I've ever actually rooted for a tournament series to fail miserably...
agreed
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:06 PM   #20
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

The original schedule is still listed on bluffmagazine.com also a story on this at pokerati.Com
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:22 PM   #21
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

gg bellagio. that is all. You had a nice run, like 3 years ago.
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:41 PM   #22
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

i think everyone is over-reacting. it's not the same as eating 18 courses of foie gras. that would be disgusting. the monotony of poker is nothing new to any of us. honestly, how many times have we played the fuper. HOW MANY TIMES?!?! none of you would be any less miserable at the end of this thing if they threw in crazy pineapple, razz, and between the sheets.

running the series this way is guaranteed to increase the number of local/tourist fish in every tournament. most recreational players don't play every event and revel in the variety of different poker games they get to experience. they pick a tourney that they can afford and they are free to play.

you guys lol at the bellagio for running a series that consists of a dozen 2 table tournaments, you should give this a chance and show up. it looks boorish, but if it gets results who really cares?
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:18 PM   #23
Todd Terry
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

I think rebuy events scare away casual players. This will be especially true if they run one every day -- if you run one per series you might "trick" casual players into playing it because they don't realize the true cost of playing a rebuy event. I have a feeling this partially explains why the event did well in December.

Personally, I don't like rebuy events for the reasons Daniel stated in getting rid of them at the WSOP (not that I support what was done there, I think popular tournaments should not be removed from the schedule). It gives an edge to people with bigger bankrolls, which I don't think should be a factor in an individual event (obviously over the long term people with bigger bankrolls have an edge because they're less likely to go broke if they hit a downswing).

I thank Scott for making the effort in circulating and presenting the petition. The Bellagio is my favorite place to play (despite my God-awful results there), it's sad that it has fallen by the wayside as a tournament destination.

What are people's thoughts on what if any effect this all-rebuy schedule will have on the turnout for the WPT Championship? I don't think it will have much effect, the other main events in the last few series have drawn reasonably well despite the prelims drawing terribly.
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Old 01-28-2010, 04:33 PM   #24
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by augie_ View Post
i think everyone is over-reacting. it's not the same as eating 18 courses of foie gras. that would be disgusting. the monotony of poker is nothing new to any of us. honestly, how many times have we played the fuper. HOW MANY TIMES?!?! none of you would be any less miserable at the end of this thing if they threw in crazy pineapple, razz, and between the sheets.

running the series this way is guaranteed to increase the number of local/tourist fish in every tournament. most recreational players don't play every event and revel in the variety of different poker games they get to experience. they pick a tourney that they can afford and they are free to play.

you guys lol at the bellagio for running a series that consists of a dozen 2 table tournaments, you should give this a chance and show up. it looks boorish, but if it gets results who really cares?
Yeah I don't get why the most vehement reactions to this are coming from online MTT grinders. In any case, the schedule looks pretty cool to me, and I'd definitely be there if I wasn't planning on NAPT/EPT during that time.
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Old 01-28-2010, 05:06 PM   #25
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Re: Five Diamond Petition Failure

honestly, i think we all have this emotional tie to the bellagio, it's a part of poker history and we're all fortunte to be able to spend such a large % of our year playing in the fontana room and for some of us bobbys room, but now it's just simply becoming history.

jack has gone crazy, and the tournaments are being run by a man who is simply trying to be as relevent as he once was with the wsop. these crazy structures aren't the first sign of this, remember that at one time bellagio was the only place enforcing "show one show all" in reference to showing 1 card due to jacks strong opposition.

i'm probably not the only one that used to dream about playing the 25k wpt championship at some point when i first saw poker on tv, i actually felt that being able to play in it was a huge privilege at one point. but i find myself this year skipping it in part because i expect the prelims to fail, and simply because ept san remo/monte carlo and napt mohegan are going to be much better in terms of numbers, value, and life
experience.

this series, the 25k main event, and the WPT as a whole are just becoming quickly irrelevent in the post recession poker world. i'd say there are as many as 10 events that are more important to me than the WPT championship to me now.
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