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Old 08-10-2011, 05:45 AM   #1
doublejoker
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Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

The long awaited epic poker inaugural $20k event took place today. Here's my thoughts on it.

The good;
1) this tournament was very well organized and professionally run. The entire staff was top notch from the management team to the excellent crew of dealers.

2) adding money and low rake is a great thing for players.

3) the $1500 proam satellite event was a great way to allow all players access to the event.

4) they established the criteria upfront needed to qualify and stuck to it.

5) the $100 per player food per day and complimentary rooms are a great perk. Nice job on that.

The bad;

1) the structure seemed way too fast for a 20k buyin. In comparison to a standard bellagio 10k main event, wsop 10k 6 max, or even a wpt like Hollywood Indiana or a 10k circuit championship, this was twice the buy in with less play . I believe over 2/3 of the field was eliminated in 6 levels. It wasn't just me who thought it was way too fast. I ran into several tourney regs who I was surprised also thought it was way too fast. Joseph cheong, bakes, jaka to name a few. There were no green chips and level three was already 300-600. This is way too fast for a 20k 6 max even with 50k starting stacks. The discussion was that the structure used should have either started with 100k stacks or had added levels like 150 300 or 250 500.

2) the rake free aspect was confusing. I thought when I busted I would be reimbursed the $400 entry fee indicated on the receipt. I was later told that this was a staff witholding and not considered rake. Easy solution. Inform the players that no money is being witheld for staff and that all money paid in will go to prizepool. These players are pros. They will tip staff and the excellent dealers accordingly if they know nothing was taken out.

3) fix the criteria for next year to include all wsop open bracelet events. 3000+ player 1k buyins should definitely count towards qualification.

4) the registration process needs some streamlining. I think this issue will work itself out in future events.


All in all, I commend the epl staff for a well run event, and give them credit for trying something new that gives back to the players. We should all support these events. I'm interested to hear others comments on this league and any other suggestions

Last edited by doublejoker; 08-10-2011 at 05:50 AM.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:33 AM   #2
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

3) is absurd and exactly what the EPL isn't trying to do and is just silly.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:51 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by The Bear Jew View Post
3) is absurd and exactly what the EPL isn't trying to do and is just silly.
Events like that should count, especially if they're worthy of w wsop bracelet. You'd still need over a million in other cashes just to make the cut...
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:02 AM   #4
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

I felt like like the structure was absolutely perfect for an invite-only field of pros that don't want to spend days and days grinding a slow structure that will turn into a crapshoot at the final few tables. Quick structure on day one to weed out all the players who bust out of the money, and slow structured when the players are playing for huge pay jumps.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:33 AM   #5
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

Structure was fine, don't want to play for two days before hands actually start to matter.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:36 AM   #6
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
Events like that should count, especially if they're worthy of w wsop bracelet. You'd still need over a million in other cashes just to make the cut...
was clearly referring to your first 3) about the satellite tourney
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:47 AM   #7
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Structure was fine, don't want to play for two days before hands actually start to matter.
For a $20k buyin there can be deeper play early and the hands all still matter. I was really pleased with both the Hollywood Indiana wpt and wsop circuit 10k structures. This was too fast too early. Frankly I was surprised that subiime, jaka and bakes overwhelmingly agreed with me on this point. You can have meaningful hands without getting to 300 600 after 2 levels.

This is supposed to be a championship series among the best players out there. There's no reason not to have a slower pace and let the best players actually play.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:15 AM   #8
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

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Originally Posted by davidv1213 View Post
was clearly referring to your first 3) about the satellite tourney
actually i think its clearly the opposite
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:02 PM   #9
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

Agreed $25 chip should have been introduced or how about something novel $50 chips?..liked starting at 100/200 vs 25/50 or 50/100 but not liking going level 2 200/400..Should be 100/200 150/300 200/400 250/500 then start ante at 250/500 next round. Also love the idea on Final table to revert back one level for start of FT like they did in Aussie Millions adds to play at FT making more exciting play!
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:50 PM   #10
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

I agree that the structure is too fast given the high buy-in, as did many other players not on Chainsaw's list. The events probably should be five day events.
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:44 PM   #11
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

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Originally Posted by The Bear Jew View Post
3) is absurd and exactly what the EPL isn't trying to do and is just silly.
hud
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:08 PM   #12
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I agree that the structure is too fast given the high buy-in, as did many other players not on Chainsaw's list. The events probably should be five day events.
I had a feeling Todd was going to be on my side on this. After all this is supposed to be the ultimate championship series of the best players in the world. Why rush them through any stage of these events....
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:14 PM   #13
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

The structure was absurdly fast. This is a 6-max with a bunch of psychos, the average stack should not me 80 bbs in the 3rd level. I understand it is Matt Savage's intention to keep the tournaments faster in the beginning in order to slow it down at the end, but there needs to be some sort of better balance than this, especially when we aren't playing 3000 person field. Everyone knows how easy it is to get in 80 bbs (or even 120) in a 6-max.

Agreed with chainsaw that there should be new levels introduced in the beginning or larger starting stacks.

Secondly, while the rake was minimal compared to anyone else, the fact that it was advertised as rake-free irked me. Just say 2% rake and I and most of my friends would've had no problem with it.

Other than that, Allen is spot on with the positives - amazing staff that took care of everything above and beyond.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyd501 View Post
Agreed $25 chip should have been introduced or how about something novel $50 chips?..liked starting at 100/200 vs 25/50 or 50/100 but not liking going level 2 200/400..Should be 100/200 150/300 200/400 250/500 then start ante at 250/500 next round. Also love the idea on Final table to revert back one level for start of FT like they did in Aussie Millions adds to play at FT making more exciting play!
I like your slower start. Believe me all those levels will have meaningful hands even with $50k stacks.

100-200
150-300
200-400
250-500
250-500 50
300-600 100
400-800 100
500-1000 100

The structure after that wasn't that bad, though the antes were rather high.



This adds a whole 3 hours to the event but really takes out the huge early jumps.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:38 PM   #15
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

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Originally Posted by jordankickz View Post
hud
[ ] epic response from an epic poster
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:10 PM   #16
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by subiime View Post
The structure was absurdly fast. This is a 6-max with a bunch of psychos, the average stack should not me 80 bbs in the 3rd level. I understand it is Matt Savage's intention to keep the tournaments faster in the beginning in order to slow it down at the end, but there needs to be some sort of better balance than this, especially when we aren't playing 3000 person field. Everyone knows how easy it is to get in 80 bbs (or even 120) in a 6-max.

Agreed with chainsaw that there should be new levels introduced in the beginning or larger starting stacks.

Secondly, while the rake was minimal compared to anyone else, the fact that it was advertised as rake-free irked me. Just say 2% rake and I and most of my friends would've had no problem with it.

Other than that, Allen is spot on with the positives - amazing staff that took care of everything above and beyond.
Thanks Joseph, the structures will be reviewed after the tournament along with all of the other "issues" the players may have. I really think the people of EPL worked very hard to make the players feel special and it will only get better IMO.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:19 PM   #17
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

The next EPL event in September is an 8-max event with the same structure. Would that also be considered too fast for some?
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:28 PM   #18
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

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The next EPL event in September is an 8-max event with the same structure. Would that also be considered too fast for some?
Yes. But it's better as an 8max structure than a 6max structure.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:07 PM   #19
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

Can we get more on the not raked / unraked aspect? I know 400 on 20k isn't bad, but why say rake-free when there is a service fee? Seems like you'd want to be transparent with a league of this caliber...No?
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:24 PM   #20
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Can we get more on the not raked / unraked aspect? I know 400 on 20k isn't bad, but why say rake-free when there is a service fee? Seems like you'd want to be transparent with a league of this caliber...No?
The receipt said 19600 and $400 entry fee. I tried to get that back when I busted they said it was a staff dealer fee, but not rake
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:42 PM   #21
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

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The receipt said 19600 and $400 entry fee. I tried to get that back when I busted they said it was a staff dealer fee, but not rake
U got to be kidding right? Your too funny
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:49 PM   #22
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

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U got to be kidding right? Your too funny
It's chainsaw. He's gonna be nitty. Next. I don't think he is being overly nitty asking for a refund on the service fee, the whole series had been advertised rake free. Service fee = rake.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:22 AM   #23
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It's chainsaw. He's gonna be nitty. Next. I don't think he is being overly nitty asking for a refund on the service fee, the whole series had been advertised rake free. Service fee = rake.
Not service fee but staff dealer fee
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Old 08-11-2011, 12:58 PM   #24
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

fwiw, annie said to her knowledge i was the only person excluded from EPL because of wsop $1ks not counting and that it would probably make sense to include it but that she wasn't making any exceptions for this year's criteria.
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:12 PM   #25
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Re: Epic poker reflections comments suggestions thread

Can someone direct me to where it was advertised that the tournament was going to be rake-free? I can't find it anywhere, but haven't really followed that closely and I've only ever seen that phrase in people's selling threads.

This is what I see on the website under the Event Information.

Quote:
Tournament Series One - Main Event
At noon on Tuesday, August 9, Epic Poker begins its first Main Event. The $20,000 6-Max No-Limit Hold ‘Em Event is open only to Epic Poker League members and the top nine finishers of the Pro/Am. Other than 2% withheld for dealers and staff, the entire buy-in goes into the prize pool, and Federated Sports + Gaming is adding $400,000 to the pool. Tournament Director Matt Savage has developed the structure and will be in charge of the action.
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