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Originally Posted by Halowax
I don't think paying a couple hundred dollars in rake each day exactly qualifies as a betrayal, Shane. In fact it seem more like "returning the favor"
These two things are not directly correlated. You can do wrong by a company even while contributing to their bottom line. Seems like the thinnest of arguments, surprised you made it.
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Have we forgotten that Stars raised a middle finger to the US DOJ for years, while making making millions (billions?) of dollars off of an "illegal" service they very aggressively marketed to a largely unwitting customer base. They consistently maintained the company line that UIGEA was not applicable to online poker while going extreme lengths to deceive American financial institutions... and there are very few of us reading this thread who aren't thankful to them for doing so. Seems like the least players could do is say **** you to the same inane legislation and remain loyal customers in the face of adversity.
I was certainly pleased that Stars took its actions and risks post-UIGEA based on legal opinions they stood behind. I don't see aggressively pioneering within a grey area to be inherently right or wrong. They certainly have had to pay the price for those opinions in the long run.
But imo, they have a lot to do with why a lot of us were able to make a living for a lot of years, and they met their social responsibility to us while the other major post-UIGEA players just dicked us, then Stars went above and beyond what I could conceive possible by bailing out FTP.
So, no I don't think it's an equivalent action to carry out your own vigilante justice within this new, not-so-grey area.
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Also, it seems pretty absurd to me to suggest that TV'ing a computer that connects to stars from a country they operate legally in could jeopardize their future growth prospects. Neither the player nor stars is breaking any US law, and there is no way our broke ass government is monitoring this practice when stars isn't even able to. Unless there is some new legislation I haven't heard of, playing online poker is only illegal in a handful of states, and there is no chance anyone is deceiving Stars in to accepting payment from US banks. As far as I see it, this is a much smaller breach of trust between company and consumer than what Stars was doing for the years preceding BF.
whether actual law or "spirit of the agreement" with the DOJ, it's pretty clear that playing Stars on US soil is the not allowed, and loudly flaunting it will help no one.
It's evidenced by how Stars stringently enforced relocation requirements to begin with. You might say the more laxxed current standards is evidence that they don't care, but you could just as easily look at it like they increased the amount of implicit trust they put in its players, or who knows.
But give people an inch and they take a yard, and I'll tell you for sure no one wants to hear in a public venue, casually told, that a person is "TV'ing now" because traveling "got too expensive." Two people told me that at a WSOP event this summer with two table changes, one person said it so casually, with so many other people in earshot, I was stunned.
And why don't I follow up and inform on every situation I get wind of? Because I am not police and I am not an investigator, and I spend quite a lot of time trying to do things simply and correctly, don't have much more energy to regulate the poker planet; also I'd rather not be told about whatever shady stuff anyone is up to, and if people don't have the common sense to avoid boasting about what they're doing in general, they should have the courtesy to avoid saying to me that they're sick of the cost of commuting (when I sure as f am too).
That's all part of a man's "code" I think.
When you're gonna do something illicit, bend the rules, function in the margins...you ought to be twice as careful, not half as careful.
If you're gonna multiaccount party poker, then don't make a brag post about how awesome your grandma played, for instance.
But what am I doing trying to explain to ppl how to be good criminals when it behooves me to let them keep splashing info around and hang themselves in the end?
Anyway, now that the behavior is on blast, don't be surprised if you see a crackdown and some people made examples of. Which leads to the last point I will make: it's so much easier to do things properly, even considering the expenses and hassle of doing it the right way now. The best thing you can do for yourself in any aspect of life is live without paranoia or fear or guilt. This is also part of one's code, his willingness to be comfortable and relaxed while doing semi-shady or shady crap.
People will think I'm a) being hyperbolic, or high-and-mighty b) blindly defending Stars c) some other form of crazy but really d) I think I am making a more logical argument than "it's really annoying that you chumps can't be bothered to go to the same expense that I have." A sentiment I also abundantly relate to.
Last edited by shaniac; 10-09-2013 at 02:50 AM.