Quote:
Originally Posted by betgo
Seems like snobbery about deep stack play, like from cash games players. My strength is short stack play and tournament strategy. When someone says playing turbos won't improve your ROI, he means it won't improve his ROI.
It reminds me of Annie Duke saying don't play tournaments, as they are bad for your profit level. She meant they are bad for her profit level, and that of some other old school limit mixed games pros who don't know how to play tournaments.
Please don't make a metaphor or do anything else that links me with Annie Duke, regardless of whether it holds any truth.
What I said was not meant as snobbery, I was just stating a fact that you have to be an overall losing player or be -EV at deepstack to have a higher ROI in turbo's. In a 15min structure you're probably going to see as many shove/fold spots on average per tournament as you are in a 5min structure. Maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more, not sure. $/hour is a different matter entirely and could easily be in the favor of turbo's, of course. But in 2017 there aren't many turbo's that are huge value at >30$ even on sundays so I don't know how relevant the point is. You can't really fill a sunday with 100$+ turbo's.
But yeah, deepstack play is more about understanding, and <20bb stack is more about memorization. I'm more impressed by understanding than memorization, but they're both skills you can be good at. I can give any person a chart or an app and if they know the rules of poker they can push/fold very well with 5 minutes of explanation. I'd need to coach someone for months-years to get them to the same level of deepstack play, and I probably make more mistakes in deepstack poker than the person with a push/fold app at shortstacking does.
I'm trying not to be an ******* and I realise I sometimes/often come across as arrogant and/or condescending. But let me explain it the way I see it: the reason you get picked at on this forum is because most things I read from you about poker strategy come across as either super obvious, superficial or semi-wrong to completely wrong. And then you get proven wrong and are super stubborn about it. Which in turn makes any starting point from anyone replying to you a bit agitated instead of neutral. Oh and poker players are a toxic bunch, myself included, that's not your fault