Irrelevant is a pretty strong word but it's certainly less relevant in MTTs than people make it out to be. Unlike in cash games, you could print 5bb/100 and still be a loser in the games long-term.

Could you filter for hands when the big blind was 100t +

That winrate is sick regardless. WP

Yep, 8.6 bb/100. Pretty much the same for all stack / blind sizes from then on. Already goes on to say that nearly 50% of my winrate is basically worth nothing as it's just early level punts.

The thing is, I think stuff like the thing pads posted (if your winrate is over 10bb/100 you're the endboss of your stakes) is pretty dangerous if you think about it black and white. I don't mean this as a criticism towards pads at all, but just that people shouldn't take it literally. As poker players we all think that we're unlucky and would deserve more and really tend to take anything at face value that suggests we might be better than our results would indicate. I think it's entirely possible to print 10bb/100 and be a terrible ~breakeven reg. However, the opposite probably isn't possible - if you're 3bb/100 in non-turbo games you just can't be very good compared to the fields imo. Anyway, the thing is that big blinds aren't currency. In cash games they are - each bb is $0.10 or whatever and thus can be used to measure an actual winrate. But in mtts big blinds have a fluctuating value (3bb at 10/20 is nothing, 3bb at 50k/100k can be worth $10k) and thus treating them as some sort of static "currency" / measurement of skill level is just stupid. It's the exact same thing as how in bounty MTTs people think that a bounty on level 1 is worth the same as a bounty on level 30 and lose a bunch of money making terrible calls later on just to get that 0.5 buy-in bounty.

My own bb/100 rates have constantly been pretty close to the highest among anyone I know, yet I'm very convinced I'm worse than probably 90% of these people at least at actually playing poker. Even something like sharkscope's $ made per game is a WAY better indicator than bb/100 (I think ROI in itself is a bit faulty too).

Edit: There are many things bb/100-wise that are actually super useful tho imo but they are specific situations. For example, something like bb/100 from BB vs BTN opens specifically would tell almost precisely how good you are at defending BB. I'd be super keen to compare these types of stats if any regs are reading this thread.

I would be interested in that too although my current DB is only 200k~ hands and the older hands have been purged.

I have used filter "antes in play" and "in BB and Steal attempted" .Got EV -19.5bb/100 over 13k hands.

That seems really good to me, with antes you're -115bb/100 to begin with so looks like you're owning real hard. I'll post mine a bit later, miiight not have time until Monday tho. Hoping to find something similar

Only had time to do a super quick check (will very likely do a big db analysis sometime next week), but mine is apparently -33bb/100. VERY well done by you there.

totally agree with chuck, also seen it in some random skype groups/forums where people defand/explain hands in bubble/ ICM spots with bb/100, which is loldicolous.

I guess what I want to say is that not only do $ values change proportionally with the blinds, $ values are also super attached to the tournament stage. Sometime the -115bb/100 play @ zero variance is just the way better option than a +xxxbb/100 play @huge variance (eg. folding certain hands to a bigstack shove from the SB when in the BB on the bubble). Of course that is an extreme example, it just show though how maximising bb/100 and maximising $ev just have nothing to do with each other in certain situations, so blindly trying to push your bb/100 is simplay not a good idea.

not sure if it's same in pt4, but got -15evbb/100 fwiw, over 7k hands tho. this does include when i'm ip vs sb, and oop vs cutoff as well it seems. not sure if I can filter for that appropriately

I'd say chuck has filtered for oop only. Otherwise I'd be really surprised how he would have -33/100 vs CO/BU/SB if overall he manages like +16/100 (yes i know early punts/whatever, but we all receive those, so basically compareing same things is what matters I guess... although some late reg more than others/play shallower TNs in general/ whatever, so there is some flaw in this...). If that were true, he and me should def work together cause we could both learn a lot from each other ^^

This year I have
-13,05/100 faceing a raise from eighter CO/BU/SB (10,5k hands)
-30,7/100 faceing a raise from eighter BU or CO (7k hands)

I know there is a lot of room for improvement there ^^

Yeah I did just vs BTN. I think position vs position specific is way better than vs steal in general. Haven't done vs SB yet and really don't have the time right now but would expect to be close to breakeven vs SB. Might be wrong though, just a gut feeling.

And as stated above I'm just 8.5/100 at blinds of t100 and above so half of that really was early punts apparently. .fr FTW.

lol, u gotta be way +++ vs SB. You have position and there is ~1BB in dead antes in the middle once the BU folds, just a question of how much of the pie you'll get

How about Chuck chooses 5 stats that most interest him, and we go off and filter for them spots and report them in this thread. Would really help players see where they are likely playing more then sub optimal. Just a thought though, doesnt have to be Chuck.

I've been messing around a bit with the filters and noticed something weird. If I have no filters on, my EV BB/100 is 3.32. If I filter by position, its 6.65. My BB/100 is 5.02 for both. This is over the exact same amount of hands. Anyone with experience have any idea why this is?

I could be wrong but I don't see how this is true? You're still -115bb/100 to start the hand (with antes) and assuming you somewhat split the antes in the middle with the SB, you're still -65bb/100 right? Obv you're also now entitled to quite a chunk of the additional 1.5bb from the blinds, but the same would apply to every other position regardless of where they open from, the only difference is that the ranges are at their widest and we have position. I don't know if I've ever looked at this but my gut feeling is that we aren't going to be dramatically winning BB vs SB open. Really interested to see how it turns out tho, feel free to post stat examples.

LittleGoliath I have no idea about PT4, sorry.

Results oriented stats doesnt help much. If someone would show vpips, 3bet and other stuff just using the same filter, that could be considered as valuable info for improvement.

check your stats chuck

not beeing profitable BvB with antes in the BB would be a huge leak, I'm 100% you are winning decently in this spot. even filtiring for only when SB raises (and thus not limps nor folds) you should be makeing a lot of bb/100. Just look at it the other way round, if you were BE, than SB would crush @ ~90bb/100 (basically winning all the dead antes), which is only thinkable if SBs are raising like way way way too tight.

Yeah I was talking bb vs SB openraise pots obv. I would assume most everyone to be up in "sb vs BB all scenarios" in BB

I'm apparently +30bb/100 in BB vs [SB any action] and -19bb/100 in BB vs [SB openraise]. I think there's room for improvement there but that was along the lines of what I expected.

I think the best way to look at key stats would be to:

1. Filter for:
-antes included
-min players: 4

2. Look at these specific bb/100 ones:

a) Hero position: BB vs single raiser BTN (SB folding)
b) Hero position: BB vs SB openraise
c) Hero position: BB vs SB openlimp
d) Hero position: SB vs steal (CO/BU single raise)
e) Hero position: BTN unopened (general BB/100)
f) Hero position SB unopened (general BB/100)


Also I'm by no means an expert wrt any of this stuff, I'm just interested in it in general and my only expertise is recognizing that people generally overvalue bb/100. I might also be biased and undervalue it myself just because I'm currently down money over this sample:


(last 5.5 months)

So as far as I'm concerned bbs can EAD because my local McDonald's doesn't accept them as payment.

But in all seriousness though I think people overvalue them lots, we play a game where bbs are of no monetary value so it just can't be something that's taken as a defining factor. There are a bunch of icm wizard 5bb/100 masstabler regs who make infinitely more money than 8bb/100 spazz idiots.

seriously, u are down that much vs SB raises? That is really a huge surprise to me given your overall winrate.

I have +28,6BB/100 over 2,8k hands this year in the BB with antes beeing in play vs SB open. Apparently I'm unable to filter for vs SB any action though lol, where do I find that in hm2? I guess it's late and after sunday session

2.b) -17bb but i think it would be cool to also know vpip/pfr/3bet that come with these villain actions, as it is probably correlated....but not sure i want to post them on a public forum for comparison!!

this, I'm not only not sure, I don't want to do that

i will post my stats for some of the filters that chuck suggested :
I am :

@ bb vs sb openraise : -51,42bb / -38bb EV over 7k hands
@ in bb vs SB any action: 24bbs / 53bb EV over 3.6k hands
@ in bb vs SB limp: 16bbs / 25bb EV over 2k hands
@ in sb vs CO/BTN single raiser: -8bbs / -11bb EV over 20k hands
@ in BTN and unopened: 38bbs / 41bb EV over 25k hands
@ in SB and unopened: 17bbs / 16bb EV over 15k hands
@ in bb and steal attempted: -42bbs / -42bb EV over 23k hands

I'm willing to share if someone figures this out in pt4 as well

This is going too deep