no you're not

This is interesting. I'm beginning to think bb/100 for mtts is nearly useless. If that guy from the 12k sample is not profitable overall in a bigger sample, I'll not be able to believe variance is this big. If he's not profitable, it's not useful even for telling if you're barely a winner or not.

this statement reflects my opinion.

it isn't a good measure of profitability unless you use it in very detailed context, in which case you would need a massive sample within said context for it to be useful anyway.

Then we come back to the first question. What is a better measurement then if ev bb/100 isn't a good estimation?

ROI after 50000 games played

Even that is pbb flawed, because the difference in your game between the first game and the 50k'th will be huge, and its very well possible you were crushing during the first 10k games but are a losing reg during your last 10k. let's face it, there is just not a good measurement. pbb trying to determine how many spots you've played correctly is good, but then again that becomes subjective pretty fast as well.

This is basically what I was implying.

fwiw it's more likely that if you were 'crushing' at the start but are losing now that you weren't actually crushing, just running hot. The number of players who come, win at the start, think they are great, then eventually leave the game with their tail between their legs is too large to count.

Just realize that I'm only importing since Feb 27 (Format my pc).

PS: 283 MTTs. 4.49 bb/100
FTP: 93 MTTs. 10.37bb/100
888: 172 MTTs. 9.82bb/100
PP: 77 MTTs. 15.36bb/100
Titan: 83 MTTs. 14.01bb/100
Carbon: 64 MTTs. 10.73bb/100

Stakes:
Regular (non turbos, no rebuys): From $2 to $9
Turbos (no rebuys): From $1 to $4
Rebuys: From $2r to $3r

Profit (since Feb 27 according to my spreadsheet): +$751.82
Yes. Currently looking for a job

Edit: Actually I'm not surprised. PS is way tougher than other sites.

My winrate on Stars is higher than 888 or Party or FTP over larger samples. Variance and game selection m8.

It could be variance, I do feel I run quite bad on Stars, but who doesn't got that feeling. It could be game selection, but I avoid "regular" MTTs; for ex. from $8 I only play the big and bounty builder (skip the freeze outs). I do think that is a volume think. PS MTTs have more players than on other sites, so you need to win more flips, hold more 70/30s and stuff. I'm gradually increasing my volume.

Im interested about this. I play mainly mttsngs with the 3.50 rebuys, 8s and 15s. I also play some low stakes mtt as well though not many. Most of my volume is 180 mans. Most are 3.50 rebuys since they run more than the 8s and 15s.


After im done with my session, i would look to see how much im up or down. I play good volume on it. I then go to my hem2 and it shows my bb/100 along with my vpip pfr etc. I have had many times when my bb/100 is like 7-9 over close to 4500 hands for the day in those mttsng. I also know that i run extremely bad as well. Yes most ppl do say this but the amount of bad beats i had has been pretty nuts. I don't even consider a cooler such as aa vs kk that big of a deal but i mean like losing ak vs a8 literally every table.


So basically does the bb/100 mean anything at all in mttsngs 180 mans or not at all? Someone mentioned you need to filter it where bb is at least 200 or more. So i should do that and then take a look? But then someone mentioned if you win lot of chips early on, then that number gets inflated? So basically someone that plays solid but runs bad at the middle or the end would usually have bb/100 at a decent number? How does anyone truly know if someone is indeed a winning player at mttsng or mtt then? I know in cash games, the bb/100 Adjusted EV is what shows a player should be up or down. But is there a way to know for mttsng and mtt?

Because of the big difference in stack depths in mtts, especially in rebuy 180s where you can stack a fish for 100-200bb+ first level then punt the rest of the day in shove spots and still be +bb ev you have to filter different things such as filter for certain stacks size ( 80+bb , 30-70 , 0-20 etc) and see how you are doing at certain parts of tournies and what you need to work on (requires bigger samples obv )

Hi all, if i would study evbb/100 , what should i do?
filter for antes in play , different stacks ( effective?) ? what is the most accurate way to study them, splitting for different situations ? ty

Im by no means an expert but will try to help. You should filter between pre and post antes, you should filter by buy in and by different stack sizes in BBs to see how your doing for example:
10 y 15
15 y 20
20 y 30
30 y 40
40 y 50
50 y 75
75 y 100
100 y 125
125 y 150
150 y 200
>200

Also you should filter by big blinds, in my case I have a good winrate early, when there are more BBs in play and winrate is somewhat skewed to huge donators on early, that rarely appear when blinds are bigger. When you get deeper, for ex filter for BB larger than 400, 1000, 2000, etc and se how your doing. Also filter by position and see what comes in SB, BB, BU etc.
There a lot of filters you can use, but generally the sample is small and there are a lot of factors, specially variance, that can skew your winrate one way or the other, even aplying the best filters.

Hope that helps in some way GL.

ty for your time! i appreciate it and your answer was very helpfull.

You can try a number of different filters. Almost everyone has a huge BB/100 in low stakes because of the gifts in the deepstacked early levels.

Make sure to remove ante-up tournaments (BB > 10), look for post ante, also filtering for BB > 100 or 1000 is helpful as well. I'd also recommend doing some stack size filters (0-12, 13-23, 24-40 etc.)

Whoops, looks like someone else already said this, my bad.

Ty for your answer! do u think filter for effective stack works better than normal stack size?

Ty

Can you tell me how i filter this on HEM2 or anyone? Basically everytime after my session, i check my hem2 in the overall tab and my bb/100 is almost always a positive number. But i run very bad at 180 mans.


I also played a lot of 180 mans so im sure my sample would be pretty decent.


The only times i knotice when my bb/100 is negative is if i play really bad.


But yes for mtt players, im curious how exactly do you know if you run very good or bad since there is ton of variance in mtt. But variance in 180 man isn't that much compared to mtt since lesser players. Someone had mentioned the bb/100 for most regs should almost ways be positive because of early levels. Is that true?


I know with one table sngs, you could just check your EV and it will show how you are running. I believe cash games are the same, i click the EV and it show you your true winning or losses etc. But for tournament and say mtt with more than 1 table, yes i like to know how you guys know if you are a winning player or not.


Thanks all.

What are you guys' winrates (please, big enough sample, say 500k+ hands total HEM database) on specific blind levels? I'm 16bb/100 over 1.5M hands but I think a bunch of that is just because of playing deepstacked stuff on Winamax etc. I'd be super interested to see what kind of rates turbo wizards are pulling off sub-20BB etc.

You can filter for diff stack sizes easily, I'd love to see people's rates for say

10BB or less
10-15BB
15-20BB
20-30BB

Thanks! I think that's also significantly more interesting and tells more about your game than the generic overall bb/100 which just has to do with game selection more than actual skills.


edit: Just saw that was already discussed above, but it'd be great to get actual numbers tho especially from crushers.

Such a crusher...No wonder you feel a $25 hourly is "...not only doable but pretty easy..."

Honestly I think it's just because I get so many 500BB gifts in plebstakes tournaments early on - there are ~500 posters here who make more than I do. It's just a game selection issue which is also why I think the 25/h is "pretty easy" - it's somewhat easy to get that by playing specific games (the same games that offer huge bb/100) BUT there are much more profitable games for better players. Iirc my old db had me at 8bb/100 and I was WAY better compared to the fields than I am now.

Confirmed way better back in the days. Loved you cardrunners videos, both for bringing outside the box thoughts but especially for entertainment value ❤️

@topic: imo being used the right way (people have already postet reasonable approaches) ev/100 is a decent measure of skill even for mtts. Obv you could screw that up totally by misplaying bubbles/ FTs/... extremely or whatever, but it's def not useless... thinking that only ev/100 should be maximized would be a huge mistake though, sometimes you just have to be extremely risk avers in mtts...

getting in a good BB/100 might get you to the last 10% of a 180man on a regularly basis, but for getting top 3 you still need a ****load of luck.

Don't understand how some people ITT think bb/100 is irrelevant.