Yes imo. I add them as soon as the peek is submitted and they stay until they die at dawn.

we are agreeing then that long time players probably have stronger views on what the seer does than what rb v rb is .

it's not that they're more impervious to influence, it's just a solution to the problem of who goes first within the order of operations. you can't influence your own kind because the actions occur simultaneously. you can't RB a RB, rando a randomizer, or vig a vig, etc because the actions have already happened before the other one got there to do anything about it.

i find looking at it like in the vigging a vig scenario is the most helpful here. both bullets leave the gun at the same time, so you can't stop a vig from firing by shooting him. he'll die unless protected, but that cat is already out of the bag. it's already on the way. same with any other like actions within the order you've established.

what am i missing?

thread confirmed frozen

What you're missing is that the actions matter. A vig doesn't stop actions, it makes it so the target doesn't live to see the next game day. A RB does stop actions, in fact that's its entire purpose. In the vig scenario, both vigs work as they should. In the RB scenario, one of the RBs is broken for some strange reason. And it's the untampered RB to boot.

tough luck imo

What you're missing is that RBs target actions. In the bullet analogy, envision a shot/angel/track/watch/whatever travelling towards its target. We all have RB first or close to first in priority. So the RB bullet travels a little faster, and blows up the "action" bullet before it reaches its target. This is not in dispute.

If an RB bullet is tracing another RB bullet aimed at a third target, they collide at the same time on the target. The question is whether they blow up a second before the target is hit, or a second after (one of the RBs is always going to be rendered null). I vote for a second before. Simple as that.

Flag theory restated.

Edit - xpost, probably echoing Vagos

I can't come up with any logical way for a roleblocker to be able to roleblock another roleblocker without giving priority to one happening before the other. Flagging still leaves this problem imo. I've tried a couple other theories like actions traveling along wires or pipes to see if I could logically come up with a way for one to turn off the other without giving an order to the roleblocks and I couldn't do it. The diagrams became really complicated too lol..

imagine two children on the school playground shooting hoops in philly. the child on the right shoots right handed and uses his left to try to block the other child. the child on the left shoots left handed and uses his right to try to block. the first kid tries to explain to the second kid why only his shot will be blocked, but two other kids come and beat the first kid up. his parents then force him to move to los angeles to live with his aunt and uncle.

they look like im designing a ufo engine

edit- ^^ lolll wahoo

Hmmm. Ok. I think I need to think about that a bit more. I (on single figure volume & 1 x w) would expect to only receive the results of n/as after the period for submitting n/as was over. So I wouldn't expect wolves to have that advantage.

Presumably you are returning a mason's peek (eg won in an event) in time for them to communicate it to their fellow mason (& before they died of being vigged)?

I .. don't have strong insticts over that.

fresh prince of bel air mish mash?

all these bad analogies are just clouding the issue that you can't RB a RB in my world

It's just intuition. If an RB and vig target each other what happens? ~100% of people would say "the vig is roleblocked" but there's no law of physics that says that has to be what happens. "The RB is dead before he can act, lol at thinking anyone can move faster than a bullet" is a possible way for things to work, it just doesn't accord with most people's intuitions.

Take the situation legend posted earlier. The village angel angels the outed seer, but is RBd by the wolf roleblocker. Should the village roleblocker be able to prevent this by blocking the wolf roleblocker? If your intuition says "no", then fair enough, but I think you're in the minority.

The method I outlined on the last page resolves paradoxes/circular actions in exactly the same way Chips' method does, but it also allows one RB to block another RB as long as no paradox is created. Neither method produces any scenarios where you need to flip a coin or anything. Chips' method is simpler, so if I didn't have a preference in the scenario above I'd prefer it, but my intuition is very strongly that the village RB should be able to block the wolf RB in that spot.

... and you drew your inspiration for this view from your avatar?

I don't remember my reasoning, but apparently not:

Chris: i'm not trying to re-draw the entire order of operations, so i don't quite know what you're getting at

these are very much edge cases and imo don't really matter much, however ...

In legend's game there were two mason's one of whom (let's say - this may not have been exactly true - maybe in the exact case it was jointly) was trying to peek-recruit their third mason. They got the full result of the peek whether they successfully recruited or not.

Presumably they should be processed first rather than last by your method? Or do they only receive the peek first if they peek the mason and last otherwise?

this

When they get redirected/randomized onto the third mason I'm going to be in a world of hurt.

What happens if someone redirects a jailkeeper onto himself and someone else NKs the jailkeeper?

You're a POG legend, bub.