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Old 07-12-2012, 12:26 PM   #501
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwings18 View Post
Glad POG wasn't this serious when I had my Wangzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz fiascos
small but important fix
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:26 PM   #502
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

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Old 07-12-2012, 12:28 PM   #503
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

Official Mod Ruling Of Great Doom And Not Pleasing Anybody

I'm afraid I'm probably not going to be able to sum this up eloquently right now, I'm too scattered, but:

We are all agreed that the pattern of behavior from magic_gazz in past games is a problem that must stop. The specific issues stem from making decisions without consideration of how those decisions affect the others involved in the game, or otherwise cause the game to break.

The specific incident with the numbers gimmick account in the WSoWW game is not by itself worthy of a suspension, given that I (and I believe the other mods as well) have no reason to believe it was in any way intentional. It's a problem because it broke the game, and it's a problem because of the pattern of issues, but nevertheless it still seems to have been an incident for which it's hard to assign too much blame to magic. Sometimes unfortunate events do occur and can't be helped, and not just to people with pristine histories

In light of both of those facts, the decision we've made (and this is mostly TL and I, in the interest of full disclosure) is to place magic_gazz on a 6 month probationary period. He is not suspended from werewolf (except he was forced to miss the 7/12 game), but during the probationary period it is expected that he will exhibit exemplary behavior, cause absolutely no issues with game integrity, and in general be a model poster. Any failure to meet those expectations will be met with either a permanent werewolf ban or at the very least a very very long suspension.

I realize that for some of you this will seem impossibly lenient, and you can make a reasonable argument for his past 6 months already being a failed probationary period. My belief is that there is value in treating the whole werewolf fouls/modding system that we've set in place recently as being something of a reset on the past. That may mean some people get more rope then they deserve, it may mean some people get less. But at the very least it's completely transparent, the rulings are public, the rationale is public, and I very much like to tell people ahead of time what the consequences are going to be for actions that cause problems. This allows me to do that.

What I am asking from magic is to demonstrate that he can be a valuable member of this community. What I am asking from the community is to give him a chance to do so. I don't expect everyone to forgive and forget right away, and any game mod has a right to exclude him from games, and every player a right to avoid games he's playing in. I've told him that he also has to expect and deal with a certain amount of distrust and dislike because of past transgressions. I've told him that it's not kosher to "be a dick back to people being a dick to him" in his perception. But that said, it's also against the forum rules to personally attack magic, so keep it mind. I'm not asking everyone to like the decision, but I am asking that everyone give it a chance to work. And if it doesn't, I promise there won't be further chances. But I have every expectation that magic can become a good poster in POG, and all my private conversations with him reinforce that belief.

In brief:
- Magic_gazz is on probation until January 15th, 2013
- Any further issues in werewolf games caused by magic will lead either to a permanent werewolf ban or at the very least a very long one
- game mods and players can make individual decisions about whether to have him in games or to play with him
- but no one should treat this as meaning that the normal forum rules about civility towards posters don't apply to magic
- and I would ask everyone to give this a chance. If he proves he can do what he should, then that's all I really want. If not, he'll be gone from werewolf

I will make a note of this court thread and the decision in the fouls thread.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:28 PM   #504
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

tldr
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:29 PM   #505
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
so basically, anyone who gets banned should make up gimmicks and circumvent the ban?
dude you did that exact thing in a turbo this week

wtf
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:30 PM   #506
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

looks good imo

and I for one welcome our new well named overlords
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:32 PM   #507
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

it seems a bit harsh to me for the sole reason that we're singling out magic. He's not the only one who has a bad 'pattern of behavior' in ww but he's the only one on probation. It doesn't gel with you calling it a 'reset' on the past.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:35 PM   #508
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

roo can you at least PM me all these people that have bad patterns?

I'm seriously curious
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:36 PM   #509
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

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Originally Posted by Alrighty Roo View Post
it seems a bit harsh to me for the sole reason that we're singling out magic. He's not the only one who has a bad 'pattern of behavior' in ww but he's the only one on probation.
yeah, this

but at the same time, it's just probation

as long as he's not held to an impossibly high or rigorous standard (like, deemed to have broken probation just because he gets mad at someone during a game), then I think it's fine

with that caveat, it's a good decision imo
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:39 PM   #510
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

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Originally Posted by teddyyyr1974 View Post
The point is he didn't play on a gimmick account while his ban was in effect.

He has made some mistakes, but has also been punished for them.

Playing on a gimmick while under suspension should be a bannable offense, but until that happens it's not worth discussing.
if game mods have the power to decide who plays in their games, then the gimmicks must be outed to game mods

thats all i ever said

well not all... i wish they would be outed to everyone and not allowed

but at min, the first part
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:40 PM   #511
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

The difference between magic and other people you may be thinking of is that magic is "in" the current system, by virtue of having issues come up after we started doing the fouls thread

I will admit there is not a perfectly consistent process in place for every occurence. There may never be, although clearly the longer we go on using the general system the more standardized things will be. But in some sense everyone who has a significant entry in the fouls thread is on "probation" afterwards, in the sense that further issues will be treated with more significant punishments. The reason for formalizing it in this case is because the "probation" is in lieu of an actual suspension

but you could consider mets and mcavoy as being in similar boats after burn notice, it's just they also got actual suspensions rather then "probation" in the official sense

In any case, I'm sure it will always be possible to find inconsistencies or imperfections in the decisions. I'm hopeful that this decision is both fair enough for the current situation, not completely out of line with past decisions, and inasmuch as it is inconsistent I hope that inconsistency is justified by the specifics of the situation, and also hopefully we'll get better and things will be more standardized as we go.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:41 PM   #512
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

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Originally Posted by BirdieLongSocks View Post
dude you did that exact thing in a turbo this week

wtf
false

i was given explicit permission by well named to play in turboes

i asked first

and i said who i was

the gimmick was metsnfinsfan for christ sake
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:42 PM   #513
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

i think 6 months probation is harsh, but if it changes him, good
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:42 PM   #514
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

actually I gave you permission to play one turbo, because of le mitigating factors
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:42 PM   #515
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrighty Roo View Post
it seems a bit harsh to me for the sole reason that we're singling out magic. He's not the only one who has a bad 'pattern of behavior' in ww but he's the only one on probation. It doesn't gel with you calling it a 'reset' on the past.
I would love to hear of these things. Because honestly I get called into WW land often to deal with problems and I deal with them. mets got banned for 3 days recently for acting like a jackass and now this magic issue. Actually I've been consulted on more than just this issue with magic.

Other than that? Nothing. If there is a problem player then PM me and prove it. I get sick of this "popular" stuff. I hardly know any of you and all will be treated fairly for sure.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:43 PM   #516
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

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Originally Posted by well named View Post
actually I gave you permission to play one turbo, because of le mitigating factors
I only played one sir
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:44 PM   #517
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

Also I don't agree with banning gimmicks. If anyone is concerned that a player in their game is someone they don't want in there - PM me and I'll check the IP to confirm. Beyond that it should be no problem.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:44 PM   #518
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
if game mods have the power to decide who plays in their games, then the gimmicks must be outed to game mods

thats all i ever said

well not all... i wish they would be outed to everyone and not allowed

but at min, the first part
I understand your position on unouted gimmicks, but until that is made illegal, mods would have to specify who they were prohibiting from their games.

At that point if someone was caught playing a gimmick account to get around this, they would then be dealt with accordingly.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:49 PM   #519
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

Gimmicks are super lame.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:50 PM   #520
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotwings18 View Post
Glad POG wasn't this serious when I had my Wangzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz fiasco
which one?
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:52 PM   #521
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

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Originally Posted by captain binkles View Post
roo can you at least PM me all these people that have bad patterns?

I'm seriously curious
I'm not gonna name names because I don't actually want anyone banned so I see no point but gazz isn't the only one who has just given in in a game or gone loco or angleshot or whatever and there are people who've done similar things more than once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
as long as he's not held to an impossibly high or rigorous standard (like, deemed to have broken probation just because he gets mad at someone during a game), then I think it's fine

with that caveat, it's a good decision imo
This.
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:53 PM   #522
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

I have played with both soah and VR when they were using gimmicks. Are they lame?

Last edited by Anarchist; 07-12-2012 at 12:53 PM. Reason: @chim
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:54 PM   #523
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
false

i was given explicit permission by well named to play in turboes

i asked first

and i said who i was

the gimmick was metsnfinsfan for christ sake
oh, nvm then
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:55 PM   #524
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

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Originally Posted by Alrighty Roo View Post
I'm not gonna name names because I don't actually want anyone banned so I see no point but gazz isn't the only one who has just given in in a game or gone loco or angleshot or whatever and there are people who've done similar things more than once.



This.
okay, fair
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:57 PM   #525
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Deliberations

Snitches get stitches yo
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