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Old 07-12-2012, 01:10 AM   #301
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Originally Posted by Felix the Cat View Post
The mod was CPHoya. You do the math.

It did come up in post game too. Magic_numbers talked about the thread not opening on time but I'm not sure if it was just to say "well the mod wasn't perfect either" or because it was actually a problem for him. Swiitch had to sub out due to the timing issues.

(Note: I like Hoya and the timing issues didn't bother me.)
This. Nothing in my post was meant to sling mud on Hoya.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:11 AM   #302
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

WSoWW is the only one I can speak about and given that it wasn't a model WW game to begin with I can understand why he might not have taken it especially seriously.

The facts are he lived to F5 and vanished at that point. I PM'd him and got no response, and he did not PM me before he vanished. The F5 had 4 villagers and 1 wolf. A villager was lynched, leaving me with an F4 consisting of Crossnerd (v), magic_numbers (v - awol), tappokone (v) and Eurotrash (w).

There is not a rule in the WSoWW saying that failure to post is a modkill. There is one that failure to post a minimum of five times requires an immediate substitute, and the perpetrator is banned from the next "week" of WSoWW games.

Unfortunately, that rule does not solve this problem. Subbing a "brand new" player out at F4 is horrendous and clearing. Failing to post at F5 is itself hugely clearing (because villagers have to ponder whether you're a supreme jerk, because you're "brand new" conclude that you're probably not, and therefore you cannot be lynched).

There was no rule set up for that eventuality because it never ever happens.

In order to try to salvage the spirit of the WSoWW I basically commanded Euro to NK magic_numbers so that we could at least trust that we'd have a full F3. I informed him that no matter the result the wolves would receive a win in the STAT$. I let F3 play out and Crossnerd and tappo got it right. I informed them, after some tilt, that though the wolves won the game, both of them would likewise be compensated in the STAT$.

It was an impossible situation for a mod.

The kicker was when magic did come back, basically ASAP, the explanation was that something had come up. I PM'd him back that I completely understood that - the same had happened to me while modding that game. I also explained that he would not be allowed to play in the next three (3) WSoWW games. I pondered lessening that.

His response was that he had little or no impact on the game and that it was unfair to punish him for something that I did as well. There's some merit to the position. However, my absence cannot break the mechanics of the game, and his did. Moreover it's not that he had an emergency, it's that he didn't decide to let me know he wouldn't be posting at a crucial stage of the game.

In a vacuum I would wish it hadn't happened. Here, since he should obviously know better, the revelation that magic is the one who did that - this is a guy I've previously defended (some) - really burns me.

EDIT: The other thing you have to remember is that if I modkill magic, Euro just nk's whoever and the game ends at parity over night. That was my other option (Thingy you can frankly fly a kite, there was no right call and this is a series of games, not just one).
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:11 AM   #303
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

FTR, I don't know whether anyone will be influenced by this, but I was in the wolf Skype chat. Magic didn't even consult his team to see if they wanted to concede before going off on his own thing.

I do think that indicates a mindset that is perhaps not well-suited to playing what is essentially a team game, but without knowing much of the history, just what is presented here, I would probably give him a long vacation and another chance.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:11 AM   #304
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix the Cat View Post
The mod was CPHoya. You do the math.

It did come up in post game too. Magic_numbers talked about the thread not opening on time but I'm not sure if it was just to say "well the mod wasn't perfect either" or because it was actually a problem for him. Swiitch had to sub out due to the timing issues.

(Note: I like Hoya and the timing issues didn't bother me.)
It would bother me. Like Gazz, I live down under, and some games I stay up late purposely to catch the start of day.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:12 AM   #305
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

I dont know all the details.

I have played with magic more then once and had no prob with him.

The only reason i feel that he is targeted is that he isnt affiliated in any cool groups. He is an easy target,

The day this court goes after some high profilers i might get some respect for it, til then i´m in magic camp.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:13 AM   #306
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Originally Posted by BirdieLongSocks View Post
I dont know all the details.

I have played with magic more then once and had no prob with him.

The only reason i feel that he is targeted is that he isnt affiliated in any cool groups. He is an easy target,

The day this court goes after some high profilers i might get some respect for it, til then i´m in magic camp.
fwiw I know very few of the people in this thread so popularity had nothing to do with me pursuing this issue.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:14 AM   #307
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Originally Posted by BirdieLongSocks View Post
I dont know all the details.

I have played with magic more then once and had no prob with him.

The only reason i feel that he is targeted is that he isnt affiliated in any cool groups. He is an easy target,

The day this court goes after some high profilers i might get some respect for it, til then i´m in magic camp.
Court masons?
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:14 AM   #308
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Originally Posted by Thingyman View Post
Incredibly poor decision.
Two of the games involved had fake final 3s?

Bizarre. And yes, I admit that mine was an incredibly poor decision.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:15 AM   #309
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

I FEEL ALIVE

again, pitch

punish him as you would if he did it as magic.

and make better rules
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:15 AM   #310
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Originally Posted by gtpitch View Post
fwiw I know very few of the people in this thread so popularity had nothing to do with me pursuing this issue.
You're not accepting private prosecutions though. I'm going to say there are at least two worse offenders in this forum than Gazz and I don't see them indicted here. And I doubt anyone here would have any difficulty naming both.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:16 AM   #311
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieLongSocks View Post
I dont know all the details.

I have played with magic more then once and had no prob with him.

The only reason i feel that he is targeted is that he isnt affiliated in any cool groups. He is an easy target,

The day this court goes after some high profilers i might get some respect for it, til then i´m in magic camp.
I disagree,

Look at willi for example. He broke several games egregiously when he first started. People like him a lot now. Why? Because he was genuinely VERY SORRY, wanted to understand what he did wrong, wanted to improve, wanted to be part of the group.

Magic does none of that. He just tells everyone to piss off and now he's getting loner credit? He did that to himself. POG is an open friendly community, if the group as a whole doesnt like you, its prob your own damn fault.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:16 AM   #312
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

MONKEY

two worse offenders at sabatoging games?

who?
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:16 AM   #313
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Originally Posted by Monkey Banana View Post
You're not accepting private prosecutions though. I'm going to say there are at least two worse offenders in this forum than Gazz and I don't see them indicted here. And I doubt anyone here would have any difficulty naming both.
PM me?

I honestly can't name them
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:16 AM   #314
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Court masons?
forever.

love the location and avatar !
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:16 AM   #315
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Originally Posted by VoraciousReader View Post
FTR, I don't know whether anyone will be influenced by this, but I was in the wolf Skype chat. Magic didn't even consult his team to see if they wanted to concede before going off on his own thing.

I do think that indicates a mindset that is perhaps not well-suited to playing what is essentially a team game, but without knowing much of the history, just what is presented here, I would probably give him a long vacation and another chance.
but it was the second time that he had done that exact same thing, and his excuse for it the first time was "if they can't win without me then they don't deserve to win anyway"
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:16 AM   #316
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

The pertinent point is that when he fails to post at F5 there is no feasible solution to salvage the end-game. If he lets me know it's not that big a problem to find a sub in the normal fashion.

F5 was, by the way, the only part of the game finally running smoothly. And the game was, despite the bitching about modkills (which were lolobviously necessary), played well and pretty dynamic.

I have still never disclosed why I was awol and I don't feel like it. TL happens to know the broadest possible strokes. It was bad times.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:17 AM   #317
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Originally Posted by Monkey Banana View Post
You're not accepting private prosecutions though. I'm going to say there are at least two worse offenders in this forum than Gazz and I don't see them indicted here. And I doubt anyone here would have any difficulty naming both.
Never said I wouldn't take things in private.

In this situation I currently want to hear from the game mods affected to get first person stories.

Anyone is free to PM me at any time if someone is a problem.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:17 AM   #318
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

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Originally Posted by Crossnerd View Post
I disagree,

Look at willi for example. He broke several games egregiously when he first started. People like him a lot now. Why? Because he was genuinely VERY SORRY, wanted to understand what he did wrong, wanted to improve, wanted to be part of the group.

Magic does none of that. He just tells everyone to piss off and now he's getting loner credit? He did that to himself. POG is an open friendly community, if the group as a whole doesnt like you, its prob your own damn fault.
yeah good post
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:17 AM   #319
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

monkey's old account was permabanned and he's welcome in games now
and he posts much better

so permabans are stupid anyway.

if i were king, id give him 2 or 3 months
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #320
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

ok ok after reading more I have a

Ruling:
This is stupid and solves nothing as its deteriorated into NO YOU and rehashing the same things over and over.

Let him talk to the mods and let them make their own decision, you know, with a personal conversation instead of out in the open where people just pile on

If you run a game and worry about it being broken, dont let him enter. You're well within your right.

adjourned.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana View Post
Wow, if SIU is even partway correct, sounds like the mod has as much to answer for as Gazz.
He is right about that lol
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #322
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Yes but this means nothing and is results-oriented.

AS WAS Krayz's comment about f3, yes.

The point is, he quit, without discussing with his team or pming me about a sub.

I think I am making every effort to be fair here, and I have pointed out that some of the villagers were practically begging the wolves to quit and that he didn't out the rest of the team but arguing that he unintentionallly helped the wolves is irrelevant and special pleading.
Saying that his teammate could have won at f3 is not results oriented afaik
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #323
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Also the timing of the thread opening late was exaggerrated slightly by SIU, with the latest morning being the morning where I had to figure out how to resolve the fact that several people had posted significantly over the repeatedly-posted posting limit.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:19 AM   #324
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

im also against the game mods being able to decide who can enter their games as well, but i know ill lose that argument as well
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:19 AM   #325
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Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Anyway what I'm trying to say is he not only didn't care that he didn't post but seemed to essentially think he was in the right.
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