Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Puzzles and Other Games Discussions about Puzzles and other non-gambling games

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-12-2012, 12:58 AM   #251
Gadarene
bussing tammates
 
Gadarene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: just a goddamn vanilla
Posts: 82,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix the Cat View Post
I completely agree.

I'm not saying he's completely innocent. If I were his court-appointed WW Public Defender then I'd be running to the WW Prosecutor looking for a plea bargain right now.

I'm saying that:
  • He's broken surprisingly few rules for all the accusations that have been made;
  • The rules that he has broken, he's been infracted/restricted for in accordance with POG mod policy;
  • He has abided by aforementioned restrictions;
  • He's expressly within his rights to make a gimmick and claim to be a new player;
  • Continuing to maintain that he's a new player in the post-game may or may not be infract-worthy (to be honest, I still haven't figured out how I feel about that);
  • Failing to post for one day, even if it is a crucial day, probably is not an infraction (considering how often it happens and is not infracted);
  • In light of his prior incidents, failing to post for one day may or may not be an infraction, as a pattern of behavior can be a violation where a single incident is not;
  • None of this justifies the sort of punishment that several people in this thread are calling for.
This post is 100% spot on.

And why am I defending him, Variance? I don't like pile-ons. I don't like lynch mobs. I tend to take the side of the underdog when everyone's going after them and I can't quite see why it's warranted. Call me kooky.
Gadarene is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #252
Crossnerd
quite smart as well
 
Crossnerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: This is my crime scene
Posts: 39,101
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix the Cat View Post
I completely agree.

I'm not saying he's completely innocent. If I were his court-appointed WW Public Defender then I'd be running to the WW Prosecutor looking for a plea bargain right now.

I'm saying that:
  • He's broken surprisingly few rules for all the accusations that have been made;
  • The rules that he has broken, he's been infracted/restricted for in accordance with POG mod policy;
  • He has abided by aforementioned restrictions;
  • He's expressly within his rights to make a gimmick and claim to be a new player;
  • Continuing to maintain that he's a new player in the post-game may or may not be infract-worthy (to be honest, I still haven't figured out how I feel about that);
  • Failing to post for one day, even if it is a crucial day, probably is not an infraction (considering how often it happens and is not infracted);
  • In light of his prior incidents, failing to post for one day may or may not be an infraction, as a pattern of behavior can be a violation where a single incident is not;
  • None of this justifies the sort of punishment that several people in this thread are calling for.
GOD DAMN

Do you seriously not understand the difference between in game and out of game? What is wrong with you?
Crossnerd is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #253
metsandfinsfan
banned
 
metsandfinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 156,120
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix the Cat View Post

He's expressly within his rights to make a gimmick and claim to be a new player;
this is true

TOLD YOU SO WELLNAMED

I had this argument with atak once too

god i feel better than i have in a week
metsandfinsfan is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #254
Gadarene
bussing tammates
 
Gadarene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: just a goddamn vanilla
Posts: 82,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHalpert View Post
As someone that spent hours of his time in burn notice posting while being a near consensus wolf because I was trying to at least do something to help my team somehow, don't you go around condoning him openly conceding as some sort of net positive. That's completely absurd.
I'm not. It was completely out of line and he shouldn't have done it.

But Aksdal saying that by doing so he made his team forego a mislynch is simply not the whole story.
Gadarene is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #255
gtpitch
making sick bumps
 
gtpitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: posting topless
Posts: 33,706
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
yep

and then we get yelled at for harrassing new players

this is what ive been saying

if you have vague rules like "it's bad ettiquette" then dont ***** when it happens
You don't like gimmicks, I get it.

You've made your point about that and it's really not relevant to the issue at hand.

What is the issue at hand is that putting the numbers account in with magic's transgressions - does that make his "body of work" bad enough to warrant a punishment?
gtpitch is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #256
VarianceMinefield
banned
 
VarianceMinefield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eye Test Guy
Posts: 57,722
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
This post is 100% spot on.

And why am I defending him, Variance? I don't like pile-ons. I don't like lynch mobs. I tend to take the side of the underdog when everyone's going after them and I can't quite see why it's warranted. Call me kooky.
i wouldnt have reacted to anybody else like this

magic gazz is going to keep ruining games

read his posts from any post game that he messed up

he has a complete screw u attitude. he will take the punishment and continue to do what he wants
VarianceMinefield is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #257
Thingyman
Born This Way
 
Thingyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: the twilight zone
Posts: 30,464
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix the Cat View Post
I completely agree.

I'm not saying he's completely innocent. If I were his court-appointed WW Public Defender then I'd be running to the WW Prosecutor looking for a plea bargain right now.

I'm saying that:
  • He's broken surprisingly few rules for all the accusations that have been made;
  • The rules that he has broken, he's been infracted/restricted for in accordance with POG mod policy;
  • He has abided by aforementioned restrictions;
  • He's expressly within his rights to make a gimmick and claim to be a new player;
  • Continuing to maintain that he's a new player in the post-game may or may not be infract-worthy (to be honest, I still haven't figured out how I feel about that);
  • Failing to post for one day, even if it is a crucial day, probably is not an infraction (considering how often it happens and is not infracted);
  • In light of his prior incidents, failing to post for one day may or may not be an infraction, as a pattern of behavior can be a violation where a single incident is not;
  • None of this justifies the sort of punishment that several people in this thread are calling for.
I agree with all of this. I think it's somehow reached this boiling point because a number of people share soah's belief that magic_gazz has no redeeming qualities or that he's consistently reacted poorly to people telling him about his mistakes and whatever. I partly don't want to give him a POG/2+2 ban because I don't feel comfortable letting personal feelings guide such a decision (and there doesn't seem to be a clear majority of people who actively dislikes him either to this point as shown in the thread) and partly because I want to see his reaction / defense before any final decision is made.
Thingyman is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #258
Larry Legend
Celtic Pride
 
Larry Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kyrie's earth
Posts: 42,918
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

I think it is natural for some people to stick up for the underdog, but you are wrong, and it is alright to be wrong.
Larry Legend is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:00 AM   #259
Aksdal
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Aksdal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: mon Dieu!
Posts: 34,196
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShipItUp View Post
.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...13&postcount=5

Quote:
You are expected to behave civilly

Werewolf is a game about lying and catching people lying. It's an adversarial game and arguments between players are normal and expected. Passion and Intensity are fine but excessively personal attacks or insults are not. Even in a werewolf game you must respect the forum rules about civility. Failure to do so may cause you to be infracted or temp banned, and repeated problems may get you perma-banned.

Werewolf is also a community and team-based game. While there are many styles and strategies and reasons for playing and you may choose your own, you are expected to be respectful of the time and energy others put in as players and as moderators. You are expected to play to win. Intentionally sabotaging your team, or choosing strategies with the sole purpose of trolling other players in the game is not allowed.
Aksdal is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:00 AM   #260
VoraciousReader
self-banned
 
VoraciousReader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Final Frontier
Posts: 33,119
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
I will point out again that, paradoxically, the aftermath of magic conceding at f23 or whatever it was in Burn Notice likely led to several ADDITIONAL mislynches that might not otherwise have been possible
Yes but this means nothing and is results-oriented.

AS WAS Krayz's comment about f3, yes.

The point is, he quit, without discussing with his team or pming me about a sub.

I think I am making every effort to be fair here, and I have pointed out that some of the villagers were practically begging the wolves to quit and that he didn't out the rest of the team but arguing that he unintentionallly helped the wolves is irrelevant and special pleading.
VoraciousReader is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:01 AM   #261
Gadarene
bussing tammates
 
Gadarene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: just a goddamn vanilla
Posts: 82,535
Everybody has redeeming qualities fwiw
Gadarene is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:01 AM   #262
Felix the Cat
TWEAK!
 
Felix the Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: :noitacoL
Posts: 17,754
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd View Post
GOD DAMN

Do you seriously not understand the difference between in game and out of game? What is wrong with you?
read the next line down, silly
Felix the Cat is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:01 AM   #263
Crossnerd
quite smart as well
 
Crossnerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: This is my crime scene
Posts: 39,101
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

And secondly, Hoya's wsoww game expressly said in the rules that you must post at least once a day. It was A RULE OF THE GAME. He broke it, and it broke the game. Its as simple as that. Felix, stop being a ****nig bleeding heart and look at the facts. Same to Gadarene. Just bc you feel like you've been bullied doesn't mean you have to defend every pile on. This one is entirely justified and you're just being a baby.
Crossnerd is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:01 AM   #264
loosekanen
USA#1, Oh Yeah!
 
loosekanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: N/A
Posts: 27,523
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

if you ban him from POG you break POG survivor. if you break POG survivor after i have spent 2+ months playing and sweating over it my permaban might follow shortly thereafter.
loosekanen is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:02 AM   #265
metsandfinsfan
banned
 
metsandfinsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 156,120
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpitch View Post
You don't like gimmicks, I get it.

You've made your point about that and it's really not relevant to the issue at hand.

What is the issue at hand is that putting the numbers account in with magic's transgressions - does that make his "body of work" bad enough to warrant a punishment?
the issue at hand is that based on your rules hes allowed to be a gimmick abd pretend to be a noob
if he did something as numbers that woujld get magic suspended again, then suspend

but circumventing with a gimmick and lying about it to get lesser punishment is just bad ettiquette
metsandfinsfan is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:02 AM   #266
Gadarene
bussing tammates
 
Gadarene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: just a goddamn vanilla
Posts: 82,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoraciousReader View Post
Yes but this means nothing and is results-oriented.

AS WAS Krayz's comment about f3, yes.

The point is, he quit, without discussing with his team or pming me about a sub.

I think I am making every effort to be fair here, and I have pointed out that some of the villagers were practically begging the wolves to quit and that he didn't out the rest of the team but arguing that he unintentionallly helped the wolves is irrelevant and special pleading.
VR, I totally agree with all of this and did not mean in any way to suggest that magic conceding in-thread in Burn Notice was justified or at all a net positive.
Gadarene is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:02 AM   #267
Felix the Cat
TWEAK!
 
Felix the Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: :noitacoL
Posts: 17,754
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield View Post
i wouldnt have reacted to anybody else like this

magic gazz is going to keep ruining games

read his posts from any post game that he messed up

he has a complete screw u attitude. he will take the punishment and continue to do what he wants
And Crossnerd is going to continue insulting, attacking, and generally trolling anyone who annoys her. That's not a very nice attitude either. Are we banning her now too?
Felix the Cat is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:02 AM   #268
dkgojackets
DKGOAT
 
dkgojackets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 86,128
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Don't forget that in addition to claiming wolf so he could quit in hp he went ahead and took extra ita shots because he didn't ****ing care and there are no consequences to anything in this forum
dkgojackets is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:03 AM   #269
Crossnerd
quite smart as well
 
Crossnerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: This is my crime scene
Posts: 39,101
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
the issue at hand is that based on your rules hes allowed to be a gimmick abd pretend to be a noob
if he did something as numbers that woujld get magic suspended again, then suspend

but circumventing with a gimmick and lying about it to get lesser punishment is just bad ettiquette
Get the **** out of here mets. You have a personal agenda against gimmickis. You're intentionally failing to separate in-game gimmicks and out of game gimmicks.

Magic Gazz manipulated mods OUTSIDE OF A GAME. That is not covered under the gimmick rule, you clown. STOP IT.
Crossnerd is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:03 AM   #270
ShipItUp
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ShipItUp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 40,201
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

WHY WSOWW WAS BROKEN ALREADY (Cliffs on the whole game as well)
1)The thread was supposed to open at 9. It may have opened at 9 once, the rest of the days it opened at 10-1 or 2 iirc and that was on the days it even opened. The mod was gone for an EOD and a full day after that, on that full day the thread wasn't open.
2)Due to the mod being gone for EOD TL handled the lynch but lynched the wrong person (which was kind of my fault but wouldn't have been if the mod was there or clarified it) due to another player going over the post restriction because of posting vote counts, which usually don't count against someones posts so I assumed it didn't this game either because it wasn't established in the OP, I sent in that to TL and that is how the wrong player got killed. The mod then came back and modkilled the person who was supposed to be lynched.
3) On one of the days that the mod opened the thread late. He opened it but it was still night. A player posted, thinking it was day and got mod killed.
4) The stuff with magic not posting happens and he gets mod killed.
5) The mod then decides to have a fake F3 even though the wolf already won. This involves Cross/tappok/Euro (the wolf). Cross/tappok correctly lynch Euro only to find out that euro had already won.
6) Cross and magic then proceed to endlessly T-Dome and scream at each other, which is why she is so mad now.

This is it I think, this is all from memory so some of the details might be slightly off but this is the gist of it.
ShipItUp is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:03 AM   #271
vixticator
clutch
 
vixticator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Watch the throne
Posts: 117,345
Ok I think I am up to speed now. As dictator of POG I would institute a two month ban, possibly less but definitely not more. But I'm not the dictator.
vixticator is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:03 AM   #272
Gadarene
bussing tammates
 
Gadarene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: just a goddamn vanilla
Posts: 82,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd View Post
And secondly, Hoya's wsoww game expressly said in the rules that you must post at least once a day. It was A RULE OF THE GAME. He broke it, and it broke the game. Its as simple as that. Felix, stop being a ****nig bleeding heart and look at the facts. Same to Gadarene. Just bc you feel like you've been bullied doesn't mean you have to defend every pile on. This one is entirely justified and you're just being a baby.
looool

just because you've been bullied doesn't mean you have to be a baby

well played
Gadarene is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:04 AM   #273
Aksdal
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Aksdal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: mon Dieu!
Posts: 34,196
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
I'm not. It was completely out of line and he shouldn't have done it.

But Aksdal saying that by doing so he made his team forego a mislynch is simply not the whole story.
I think you'd agree that it would make the most sense to judge his actions based on his intentions. If you honestly believe that he outted himself as a means of helping his team get mislynches further down the road, then I guess you can keep arguing that point.
Aksdal is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:04 AM   #274
vixticator
clutch
 
vixticator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Watch the throne
Posts: 117,345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
So punish numbers by giving him the infraction he would have gotten at the time if people knew he wasn't new.

How is a perma ban warranted?
Yeah this obv.
vixticator is offline  
Old 07-12-2012, 01:04 AM   #275
VarianceMinefield
banned
 
VarianceMinefield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eye Test Guy
Posts: 57,722
Re: WW Court Version 1 - The Pretrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix the Cat View Post
And Crossnerd is going to continue insulting, attacking, and generally trolling anyone who annoys her. That's not a very nice attitude either. Are we banning her now too?
she does a lot of good for the community

mods games extremely smoothly

she gets upset by people who break rules and give off an f u attitude
VarianceMinefield is offline  

Closed Thread
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive