San Francisco rejoices

Just based on how poorly the village team played after TRD died, I think its pretty clear wolves deserved the win.

I'm included in that.

But at least I can say you didn't fool me and I got NL as my f3 safety lynch all game which was completely correct.

If you count those I got 3/6 wolves and Chill got the other 3/6 iirc.

Ergo Pizza/Chilltown village team wins if we got all our wishes to come true.

thank god you pointed it out before it was too late

Edit: actually i think i changed it before game 1

Yeah me kcaw and chuckles were in a skype chat watching the game and all pretty sure it was Daniel. His toan was way off. He said "seriously" like 8000 times, it was the classic "random added emphasis" wolf tell.

Other wolfy things he did:

- "I'm not going to formal (i.e. formally accuse) Trump, I'll let Keith or Sheth do it". Er, why?

- "Sheth is vig Keith, you gotta get that through your head, there's so much evidence". There was like 1 piece of weak evidence. Classic TMI.

Also Luckay's counterclaim of vig earlier made him likely town, the play made no sense as mafia unless as FPS to level everyone, which he's not going to try with a crew who doesn't know him.

Sheth was useless but soah could have alphad up and got the win I think.

Can I convince you to sport a Drew Brees avatar for the week plz?

Well, yeah. Getting it right is only half the deal. Convincing the others is the other half

Next game I play with Chilltown we are going to lynch 7 wolves back to back to make up for musketeer debacle.

And there will only be 6 wolves in that game. We will lynch the wolf from the next game a whole game early.

:P

KruZe owns you fools

Daniel just looked so flat on the second day. luckay was always really into it.

Don't I know it.

I am fine with being a cassandra. Makes me seem that much more awesome.

Just a reminder that I just dropped #knowledge in the LC thread, up your wolf games by reading two posts

I fake peeked you village CPHoya why u had to be wolfing

*shakes fist impotently at you*

Always be fake peeking villa

Well, if you get wolves and people to listen to you, the wolves just NK you. No one listens to the dead.

Being dead cassandra is even more fun. Less frustration, all the epic.

OrangeRake just did this in the 2009 Anniversary Game.

She had a lot of suspicion because she couldn't back it up with posting (the last few days were one HOWLING post after another).

She died late in the game.

If you replace the f3 wolf with her, she would have been lynched. I can say this confidently because I was the one doing the lynching either way.

==

I think we're at a level where, in most formats, simply bussing tammates isn't enough. If you just bus wolves and don't post anything useful, you'll be lynched. In the same 2009 Anniversary Game, we lynched a villager, aaronk, (as correctly as you can get for lynching a villager, imo) for being too good in his votes. A big part of that was his past games and if we're talking WW theory that's not useful, but a fundamental thing here is that if you vote for a wolf at every chance you have to vote for a wolf, but you can't give a good, villagery reason why you are voting wolves and not villagers, good villages are going to sniff you out.

I think you're a "new" POGger? Brought over in the championship game? At the least I don't recognize your name so I don't expect you to know my meta. Most POGgers don't know my meta because I don't play every single game.

I don't bus. I don't believe in bussing. I don't believe bussing is useful.*

*except when it is of course

Going back to the above bus driver. Say he makes good, villagery cases for his bus votes. He's making natural progressions, showing sound reasoning, considering other wagons before finally settling on the bus.

Why shouldn't he vote the villager?

Well, I'd submit that he should vote the villager. Construct a natural progression with sound reasoning, give consideration to the other wagons, and then vote the villager. It gets your team one step closer to the goal. It gets you one step closer to winning. Bussing gets you one minus step away from winning in a simple analysis.

In my opinion, if you're going to execute a bus:

1) It must be predetermined before the day you bus. Preferably well before. If you're a wolf and you are going to bus, you need to have a natural progression to voting the guy being thrown under the bus. Simply deciding you want to vote a wolf isn't going to cut it.

2) You need to have a clear plan as to where you're going. This is actually true for all wolfing. When I'm wolfing I have a list of villagers I think would be good lynches now, villagers I think we should keep around for easy lynches later, villagers who will be difficult lynches. I usually have a rough game plan of how we're going to get the necessary number of lynches: who (or at least which category) we are aiming to lynch each day and how that plan leads to victory. I also try to put our wolves into those categories - easy lynches, moderate lynches, and difficult lynches; figuring out who will be alive when is also important to mapping out that path to victory.

3) You need to fit the bussing into your path to victory. You need to have a clear plan as to how precisely this particular bus helps the wolf team win, and how it's superior to the "lynch villagers" route. Who is this bus going to clear? Are the plausible late-game wolves - are they in our difficult to lynch category, or at least moderate? Have the wolves that we want to gain credit from this bus established some sort of logical progression to driving the bus? What does the bus target need to do to help the bus be successful at clearing the target wolves? How much credit are the bus drivers getting, and is this enough credit to propel them to victory? Will they be too clear - by the time must lynch comes around, would they already be night killed if they were villagers? If so, what can we do to avoid that? (I had a particularly sticky situation in a 9-man turbo once where I - accidentally! - bussed my wolf partner day 1. I lucked out and hit the seer night 1. Assume we go standard route, kill the seer's peek night 2. We go through day 3. In the villagers' eyes, who should die night 3? Me.)

4) We should accomplish all of the above in wolf chat before the wheels of the bus go round and round. I think this is fairly obvious.

5) Holy ****ing ****, if we're not doing 1 through 4, we shouldn't be hard pushing packmates. News flash: if the wolves play correct villager games, the wolves lose. You want to look like a villager, but a villager having a bad game. Your objective is to lynch villagers. Going at your packmates does not help this cause. Maybe it helps you feel better about your villageriness; if it does, that means you need to deal with having perfect information better. The villagers surrounding us are doing wolfy crap all the time, all day err'y day. Find and highlight that wolfy crap. Find the villagery stuff your wolfbros are doing and highlight that. I think some people play as if only votes matter, which couldn't be farther from the truth: if I'm a wolf and say something slightly wolfy in the midst of some discussion and 2 other wolves decide to quote it and highlight how wolfy it is, suddenly whatever I said becomes the topic of conversation. As wolves we have the power to be a huge influence on the flow of conversation. Things are brought up and then dropped all the time; the things that are not dropped are the ones that others in the game also talk about.

I could write a whole article on that topic. I'm not going to. It's not that relevant to the topic at hand. Well, it is, but yeah, we're not going in depth or else this tl;dr would get to like wtfwtl;dr level.

That is a simple rendition of how I feel about bussing.

fyp's

^ wat?

^that!

Do I really need to bold the changes?

@me?

probably too long of a post and take it to ww theory but it was relevant

edit: nvm probably?

oh duh converted to WW lingo



EDIT: was to gabe, felix

Even if bussing is not optimal in general, it's still optimal for me. Defending wolfy wolfbros is just too hard from my POV; it can also lead to unpleasant situations where it fails while outing half of your team.

Of course, you need to be prepared for late game wolfing, which is grueling. But it's still easier than making up reasons for defending people that are howling.

(Have just skimmed Felix's post; might read it later, but it probs won't change my mind).

there needs to be some bussing in most game, the part that's interesting is who busses who when and how, which requires the team to determine who is supposed to win at end game

I think I have less than 10 days of gametime wolf experience.

What's it like to random wolf?

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