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Old 05-14-2012, 10:37 PM   #1001
DiggertheDog
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Re: The well: atakdog

Have you considered using your university accredited courses to perhaps seek university accreditation in non US universities?
Perhaps you could get a law degree in another country - do some international law supplements and try and backdoor your way into the law profession via alternative specialities?
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:08 AM   #1002
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Digger: my (decidedly imperfect) understanding has always been that a US law education is worthless in all but commonwealth countries and not terribly useful there, but I guess the real answer is no, I hadn't thought about that. With Pup stuck with his mother, and without a passport, for the next three years it's tough, but maybe worth thinking about.

Hoya: That's one of the options. I really loved teaching, though it never translated at all into wanting my own business or managing anyone in any sense. Just teaching. Could I get Kaplan to hire me, or TPR to rehire me? I imagine so. I'd start at the bottom again but whatever.

But the difference is that what was fine as a temporary thing looks different when I'm supposed to be getting on with my life. And franky, part of that is that I'm sick of being poor. I made 155k one year at TPR but that will never happen again (it was a magic confluence of events), and I really don't want to be scraping by on what is inherently underside part time work for the rest of my life, regardless that I may enjoy it.

Time actually to join the real adult world, I think. Blah.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:36 AM   #1003
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Re: The well: atakdog

My thought process was this:

Atak has done alot of the accredited courses that constitute a law degree.

Apply for a law degree course in say Canada....if they credit you with say a good portion of prior equivalent course credit
See if they offer any, hopefully all of their courses online.
Do canadian or ~ country law degree.
Spend time or money getting accreditation to practise in Canada
Moveback and seek backdoor approval to practise in US

Not sure if it is possible or practical.
But with online learning and the international education market - I cannot see why it would not be possible if not practical.

Or alternative see if your graduate law courses can be given course credit for an alternative degree.

Frankly I am pretty ignorant of the ins and outs of US education system being Australian - but I find it very hard to believe that having done those courses that they are worthless (worth being not able to be credited with prior knowledge to other courses)
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:54 AM   #1004
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Re: The well: atakdog

I need to do more research, I guess, but my strong suspicion based on what I have been told so far (and by whom) is that there's nothing I could do in the US at least, save start over. And that's an impossibility — three (or realistically, four — it's too late to get in this year) more years at this point just ain't happening.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:06 AM   #1005
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Re: The well: atakdog

Ok - just throwing ideas out there.

Hawaii - good guess sir.
Wiki:
The Palila (Loxioides bailleui) is a critically endangered finch-billed species of Hawaiian honeycreeper. It has a golden-yellow head and breast, with a light belly, gray back, and greenish wings and tail. The bird has a close ecological relationship with the māmane tree (Sophora chrysophylla), and became endangered due to destruction of the trees and accompanying dry forests.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:39 AM   #1006
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Re: The well: atakdog

Solid update Dog.

There are states that let you take the bar with circumstances that don't include law school. California being one of them.

As for getting on with your life:
You know what you have when you finally get all your s--- together?
Spoiler:
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:02 AM   #1007
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Re: The well: atakdog

I genuinely think that, 3 years from now, this looks much more like a positive than a negative, but for now <3 atak
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:10 AM   #1008
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Re: The well: atakdog

Do you need to be a lawyer to do tax returns in the US? And, if so, why - is it some sort of indemnity issue, or credibility or what? Because that seems to be something that you're even better at than standardised tests.

Even if a legal qualification is necessary from a practical POV, could you find some situation where you work inside a law firm where you do much of the work and they provide the wrapper?
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:10 AM   #1009
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Re: The well: atakdog

good luck with whatever you choose attackdog
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:41 AM   #1010
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Re: The well: atakdog

I think there are about a thousand things out there that you'd be good at that aren't based around having a law degree. Someone with your skills at logical reasoning isn't going to find a hard time finding someone to employ them, even if you have been out of work for a while.

Right now, you getting a job that you enjoy (teaching was my first thought because I knew you really liked it) would probably do you a world of good mentally, just getting into the cycle, moving away from your parents and earning some money.

I don't know whether you can be a tax professional without some kind of qualification, or how that is during the rest of the year when it isn't tax season, but you seemed to be very good at that when you did it.

I'm just glad you came out your funk, albeit momentarily. And if you don't tie yourself down to Chicago anymore and move away, be it west or east coast, I'm sure someone somewhere will pay a buck or two to have you teach their kids LSAT/MCAT/whatever.

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Old 05-15-2012, 08:17 AM   #1011
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Re: The well: atakdog

I can completely relate to waking up one day mid-life and having that "Oh ****" moment where you realized you missed some opportunities for whatever reason and you now need to get some things going for the future. I can also relate to not knowing what the hell those "some things" are.

I wish I had some sage advice, but I don't.

Good luck.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:27 AM   #1012
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quickly...

I could do tax returns — I'm fully qualified for that (because it takes basically nothing to be qualified). I stopped doing that because my impression of the industry was that it was evil — literally everyone I met was some combination of incompetent and unethical. Perhaos there are some ways I could do it that wouldn't have that problem, but so few people actually want an honest preparer that I have my doubts. (I did let my EA certification lapse, but that's not all that important.)

Re getting to be a lawyer without a law degree: I think it takes several years of, basically, indentured servitude. I'm OK with the servitude, but it feel like I don't have the years any more.

Re doing law without being a lawyer: The most experienced paralegals make what many people would call decent money, and even get a little respect, but I doubt I could handle that job, because it wouldn't be long before I'd resent doing the work for people who were dumber than I yet made ten times as much. I know myself well enough to know that that is not a recipe for personal success for me.

Re the palila: Cool. I've never seen one. Probably the rarest Hawaiian bird I've seen is the 'akepa.

All: I apologize if I seem to negative about all your suggestions. It's partly natural proclivity, partly that I've spent half a lifetime rejecting many of these already. But I appreciate them, and will be revisiting a lot of ideas in the near future as well.

I'll be mostly gone for a few days, but will catch up later in the week.

Last edited by atakdog; 05-15-2012 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:39 AM   #1013
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Re: The well: atakdog

Oh, I ran again today. Just two miles, but as I said, we're at elevation (~2,800 feet), and my run had a 100 foot or so gain in the first half, and I did it without stopping. (Yay for tiny victories!)

Now, heading out to climb Humphreys Peak (highest mountain in Arizona) tomorrow.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:57 AM   #1014
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Re: The well: atakdog

How's your bridge game?
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:20 AM   #1015
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Re: The well: atakdog

Probably kinda lousy these days, by my standards. No partner — haven't played with anyone but my stepbrother since whichever the last NABC I attended was, Louisville or Orlando or whichever, and he's been too busy. And he's going away to college now, so I'll really be partnerless.

If I actually accepted that I had settled in [pick whatever city], I would make more of an effort. But though I'm in Chicago, I can't say I have ever intended to stay here.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:24 AM   #1016
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Re: The well: atakdog

I do hope it's clear: I appreciate both the ideas and the kind wishes. I don't write this for sympathy, but rather both as a sort of catharsis, and because at this point I do believe a lot of people really want to know. That's nice, and nicer that so many care.

I admit that the most intriguing idea so far is digger's get-a-Canadian-law-degree one. I doubt it's possible but it's not inconceivable, and really kind of a cute way around the problem.

In practice I'll probably teach, do taxes, or somehow make my way into trading, but I'm not deciding this week.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:51 AM   #1017
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Tbh, we should be the ones apologizing for giving advice, rather than taking the superior amp approach.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:56 AM   #1018
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Re: The well: atakdog

I disagree — each has great value. The TL/amp approach is a lot of what I need, but the advice may work too — clearly I'm not the best decision maker in the world and even more clearly, I have not thought of everything. Necessarily, most suggestions won't help, but if one does, even somewhat, that's great.

OK folks, out for a while. Cheers and thanks.
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:01 AM   #1019
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokiri View Post
I genuinely think that, 3 years from now, this looks much more like a positive than a negative, but for now <3 atak
ban for wishing heart attacks on other posters

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Old 05-15-2012, 11:56 PM   #1020
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Re: The well: atakdog

Look on the bright side.

These days, a law degree comes with $150,000 of debt -- and no guarantee of a job after graduation
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:29 AM   #1021
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Re: The well: atakdog

atak: have you considered the glamourous position of "hockey blogger"?
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:45 AM   #1022
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Re: The well: atakdog

Let me just say one thing about the lawyer route, trying to be as genuine as I can: you pay for it every single day with your time and both your mental and physical health. It is no panacea and without being too revealing, it does not foster improvement of depressive symptoms. You have not lost what it feels like you have lost.

I sympathize with you for reasons we've talked about before - we are quite similar in some ways - and I know this sounds particularly hollow because it comes from me in my role as an attorney, but you're better than this career and now you're being forced to prove it. You're going to, too, and I'm excited to see where that takes you. I hope you are, too.


This post is being made from my desk at 9:44 PM, where I have been sitting for something like 43 of the last 48 hours and will continue sitting until 11:00 AM tomorrow morning, though honestly morning and night have been running together quite a bit in the last month. Do not convince yourself you've missed out by missing this.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:34 AM   #1023
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Re: The well: atakdog

I would like to not only support ideas like "the grass always appears greener" that CPH suggests.
But also suggest - to commit yourself to doing something concrete.
When I say commit - I mean actively choosing a path and following through and at the same time actively talk to yourself about the positives of whatever that choice is.
It is extremely important to have a positive inner dialogue and to reaffirm your choices with positive attitudes.
Not to make this post too much about me but let me relate to the last couple of years of my life.
I was in a rut - mid 30s - under achieved/made mistakes/no interesting prospects/family tradegy - bit of a cliche mid-life reassessment.
Was mass-tabling rakeback proing and hating it - not getting out, too much 2+2, kinda depressed.
I decided to do a postgraduate teaching qualifying diploma - I thought I would be good at it - was affirmed by others that I would be but ultimately I felt that I might not like it or it might not be enough of a challenge.
But the prospect of change and change itself was healthy for me - whilst I have doubts and have had other collegue trainee teachers express serious doubts about their own choice - I have tried and I mean that literally ' a consious effort' to stay positive. To always see the positive aspects of it.
Now I have had and are still having setbacks and perhaps if I rerun things in my life I might have gotten here sooner or I might have choosen a different path....but now I keep telling myself to stay in the moment and enjoy what the next moment brings.
So even though I have yet to get a permanent position and I am in the dreaded casual teacher limbo - I am still being positive - still professionally developing (doing a literature course to gain another teaching speciality) and yeah i dunno if teaching is for me and yeah I am never gonna be rich and yeah all the things are gonna be hard - but I am doing something for myself and others and I am taking pride in doing something.

I hope their is some insight or something positive that you will take out of the mindset I have adopted.
GL Atak and feel free to PM me anytime if you want some unfiltered positivity or advice.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:03 PM   #1024
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPHoya View Post
Let me just say one thing about the lawyer route, trying to be as genuine as I can: you pay for it every single day with your time and both your mental and physical health. It is no panacea and without being too revealing, it does not foster improvement of depressive symptoms. You have not lost what it feels like you have lost.

I sympathize with you for reasons we've talked about before - we are quite similar in some ways - and I know this sounds particularly hollow because it comes from me in my role as an attorney, but you're better than this career and now you're being forced to prove it. You're going to, too, and I'm excited to see where that takes you. I hope you are, too.


This post is being made from my desk at 9:44 PM, where I have been sitting for something like 43 of the last 48 hours and will continue sitting until 11:00 AM tomorrow morning, though honestly morning and night have been running together quite a bit in the last month. Do not convince yourself you've missed out by missing this.
So, so true early in your career. That having been said nowadays I work like 9a-4p M-F and so a little work at nights from home, and maybe an hours or two worth of work some weekends, and I've never been happier.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:55 PM   #1025
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