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Old 11-18-2009, 12:18 PM   #726
Andynan
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Re: The well: atakdog

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Originally Posted by atakdog View Post
I'm not sure it's obvious, but I do think it's right. But the math isn't simple at all, because what's the baseline?

Baseline negative for starving childs imo


And here we have the reason that being villagery really is a part of being a good villager: it's hard to replicate as a wolf. Yes, some of us can to some degree (sometimes very well), but most epolpe really can't. When you're a villager, it is your duty to your team to do everything you can to help the team win, and that often involves clearing yourself. And if that makes it harder to wolf well, the problem isn't your village game, it's that you haven't learned to wolf well yet.

If every villager cleared himself it'd be gg, I'm a big proponent of clear yourself first, hunt wolves second (as a villager)
as a wolf as well lol


Wolfing well is hard, because you have to do (almost) everything you'd do as a villager, but somehow get villagers lynched anyway.

some people are naturals at the second anyway



This is good. Not exactly accurate, as entropy will catch us in some number of billions of years regardless, but true for all intents and purposes. If there's a reasonable probability that humans are heading to extinction, and that probability can be measurably reduced, that's an excellent argument for changing how we're doing things.

Yeah, we are going down at this rate imo



This one reminded me of the problem I noted above — I was neglecting to distinguish adequately between magical disappearance, and death.

I would be much happier if everyone around me magically dissapeared as opposed to died, night and day imo.
.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:22 PM   #727
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Re: The well: atakdog

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nice reply Wyman, I have to ask, were you looking to end it right there or was a momentarily lapse?
Moving discussion to the Pub.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:24 PM   #728
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Re: The well: atakdog

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You're aware that I've been a single adult for decades, right?

Bipolars are also notoriously interested in sex, and I am not an exception, so the numbers I gave reflect a lot of restraint imo.
I dont really know what the normal rate of picking up one nighters is over there, or over here even. Just seemed like a lot of women, they are like more than a football team!

its like you've been everywhere

Spoiler:
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:32 PM   #729
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Re: The well: atakdog

Re: werewolf. Is there one simple thing I could do better to find wolves that you can think of?
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:44 PM   #730
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Re: The well: atakdog

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Atak,

Could you talk about the use of lithium in treating manic depressives? You mentioned that it altered your iq test results which I find interesting.

Is the manic phase fun?
Lithium is such a cool drug.

First, it's an element, so one would think its method of action would be straightforward and simple to understand, but it isn't. In fact, it's not really clear how it works. We do know that it stabilizes the mood of some bipolars, in particular cutting out some or all of the mania, and that it has no effect at all on the moods of normal, healthy people.

Another thing: it was the very first drug used for a mood disorder, back in the fifties or something — I think it was tainting the food of some schizophrenic rats or something along those lines and somebody noticed that they do better.

Some, but not all, bipolars are helped by it (in fact, there's nothing that helps all or even most of us). As I said, it can dull or cut out the mania. It as to be taken all the time, which as I will explain later is relevant. As for adverse effects on the mood and the mind, I really know only what it did to me. In my case it made it very hard to focus, and made me feel mentally fuzzy. There were also times when it was if I had (literal) tunnel vision, not being able to focus visually on anything that wasn't right in front of me. (Fun when driving.) I felt like I was less analytical, too, and my shrink gave me an IQ test (I don't know which one it was), on which I scored something around 160, but I really didn't need the confirmation, I was sure I wasn't all there. the inability to concentrate made it hard to remember where I was in my lessons (I was teaching at the time), and my bridge play suffered greatly — in fact, it was bridge that convinced me I really and lost my mental edge.

Adding time-released Ritalin to the mix ameliorated a lot of the above, but it was pretty expensive (and a pain in the ass to get because it's schedule whatever-it-is controlled); heavy caffeine use was an imperfect but somewhat effective substitute. Hello, coffee addiction.

Lithium cost me about $15 or $20 a month. Depakote, the most commonly prescribed mood stabilizer at the time, cost me about ten times that. I had no insurance; i bought my drugs at Sam's Club pharmacy, which is as cheap as it gets.) The suicide rate of Depakote patients was 2.5 times that of bipolars. So why don't doctors prescribe more lithium?

There are two reasons. The one I believe is the most important is marketing. I learned to hate the drug companies. They are not in the business of making people healthy, they are in the business of making money; this doesn't in itself make them evil but it's worth keeping in mind. The problem is that they pay off doctors, not with straight up quid pro quos but with thousands of dollars per doctor of subtle and not so subtle promotions, ranging from note pads and pens to trips to "conferences". Also, the drug reps tend to be personable and charming and gorgeous (and almost always female). (I dated a couple of them before I decided I just couldn't be with someone who would do that; my Match profile actually said for a while that salespeople of any sort shouldn't bother, though initially itw as specific to drug reps.) Drug companies are not your friend, and doctors who listen to them, are selling out and doing their patients an enormous disservice.

The second reason, though, is legitimate in the case of lithium. It's nasty-dangerous. The therapeutic index — the ratio of the toxic dose to the minimum dose that does any good — is around 2 or 2.5. (By contrast, most drugs it's an order of magnitude higher.) If you get twice as much lithium as you're suppsoed to have in your system, you start getting adverse effects, and i the case of lithium those effects are, basically, the destruction of most of your organs. And this is a major issue because lithium excretion (by the kidneys — the liver, which metabolizes more chemically complex drugs, is not really involved) is very slow, and its rate varies greatly from person to person. Most doctors require occasional blood tests of lithium levels to ensure that they remain safe.

I don't take it any more, but it did me a lot of good in helping me get stable after a very nasty period. Now, I don't think I need it much — the depression part of my disorder is the really debilitating issue, and lithium can't touch that.


Quote:
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what do you think there is after death?

sorry if this has been covered, I assume you think nothingness ensues and conscience ceases, just in case.
Correct. In my view this is all we get. Some people think that means I can't really have a moral compass, but I think it actually makes it stronger: I think each of us gets exactly one chance to get it right. No atonement for sins at the end, no reincarnation to try again — just one life, to make of what we can.


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Atak, please, for all of us, do this TODAY. Send an email. Make a call. Just do something about it...now!
Can't call him today — after class (I'm being bad — brought in my own computer to get around the blocking of 2p2) I head off to see my 98 year old grandmother. But I think I can have it done by Friday. (This is a very hard at of the process for some reason.)
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:59 PM   #731
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Re: The well: atakdog

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Also, to the mysterious POG'er who made his trip happen, thanks, it is a truly wonderful thing you did, and I hope it comes back around full circle for you.

Sometimes people do wonderful things, it makes me smile.
After discussion, atakdog and I have decided that we want POG to know who it was that was so generous in providing the money for the flights. The feedback in this thread shows that most of you think it was an awesome thing to do and we feel that they deserve the full recognition for it. It certainly was a wonderful thing.

It was ElliotR. Thank you
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:01 PM   #732
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Re: The well: atakdog

super elliot !

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Old 11-18-2009, 01:19 PM   #733
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Re: The well: atakdog

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quite awesome the gf advice part
I think he meant get one older than him.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:20 PM   #734
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Re: The well: atakdog

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It was ElliotR.
and I had an extremely high opinion of ElliotR before this.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:24 PM   #735
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Re: The well: atakdog

my property taxes are due at the end of the month...
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:24 PM   #736
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Re: The well: atakdog

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Originally Posted by TimeLady View Post
After discussion, atakdog and I have decided that we want POG to know who it was that was so generous in providing the money for the flights. The feedback in this thread shows that most of you think it was an awesome thing to do and we feel that they deserve the full recognition for it. It certainly was a wonderful thing.

It was ElliotR. Thank you
That's very generous of Elliot.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:30 PM   #737
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Re: The well: atakdog

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It was ElliotR. Thank you
I guess all lawyers aren't all that bad.

Elliot,

Your generosity has touched many people. However I think it will have a 2nd effect as well. I think atak will 100% be getting his paper done by May as a result.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:32 PM   #738
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Re: The well: atakdog

Elliot is teh awesome.
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:42 PM   #739
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Re: The well: atakdog

That was a very generous thing you did ElliotR!!!!
:thumbup:

May it come full circle for you!!
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:43 PM   #740
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Re: The well: atakdog

everyone saying may it come full circle to him, bear in mind its a plane we are talking about ok?

gosh!
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:44 PM   #741
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Re: The well: atakdog

lol. um, thanks guys but as much as I like reading that I'm a great guy this is atak's well. Come to the Pub where I can badger those of you who haven't toasted yet into posting pictures. Right, WN?
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:52 PM   #742
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Re: The well: atakdog

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lol. um, thanks guys but as much as I like reading that I'm a great guy this is atak's well. Come to the Pub where I can badger those of you who haven't toasted yet into posting pictures. Right, WN?
You can have time in my well whenever you want... but it's true that people should be visiting the pub, in part to see the toast videos and of course to put up their own. So I'd say the compliments are perfectly at home here, but y'all should be playing games and such over there too. With PE dying, the well needs support.


Also, re Mac's prediction that this will all lead to me being able to finishmy school stuff: I believe that's right.

Last edited by atakdog; 11-18-2009 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Probably won't be on much more today, btw
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Old 11-18-2009, 01:58 PM   #743
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Re: The well: atakdog

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After discussion, atakdog and I have decided that we want POG to know who it was that was so generous in providing the money for the flights. The feedback in this thread shows that most of you think it was an awesome thing to do and we feel that they deserve the full recognition for it. It certainly was a wonderful thing.

It was ElliotR. Thank you
Elliot rocks, ldo.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:17 PM   #744
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Re: The well: atakdog

Thanks for the answers atak.

Now for a few semi-philosophical ones and a few odd ones I thought up.

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
(I presume you are not a solipsist, but I have been shocked before)

Are all opinions born equal?

Favorite philosopher?

From this. Do you agree with the father? With the daughter (are you a donor)? (sorta answered the former q already i know)

Favorite comic book character(although perhaps this has been asked)?

At 5, 10 and 15 years old (arbitrary age-points, switch as you like) what did you want to be when you grew up?
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:32 PM   #745
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Re: The well: atakdog

Less WW, more bridge, pls. You have like 3 requests outstanding for Bridge stories and I know you have some awesome ones!
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:16 PM   #746
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Re: The well: atakdog

hey Elliot I'm behind on my credit card payments

Last edited by XXsooted; 11-18-2009 at 07:18 PM. Reason: could use some new sneakers too
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:25 PM   #747
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Re: The well: atakdog

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hey Elliot I'm behind on my credit card payments
gold

I am going to graduate this year and could use some health care personally
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:44 PM   #748
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Re: The well: atakdog

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Iran, I think — I suspect there's more to see there, culturally and (always important to me, even in this case) natural stuff. I'd also argue that Iran is likely to be more important as a global force over then next few decades, but that's not entirely clear.

Tough to decline South Africa because much of the wildlife is better preserved there than in most of the resyt of Africa, and because it starts with such resources. In South Africa I'd see Victoria Falls, great white sharks and penguins, and the usual megafauna... Against that, as I said mountain gorillas are in my top two trips, so if Rwanda or Burundi qualifies ten it would win for that reason. (or maybe bonobos in the west — can I have them all?)

I've spent time in the Amazon but I was so young I missed out on a lot — Galapagos is high profile, but I have to go with the diversity of the Amazon. (I'd prefer Orinoco or Pantanal, though, just because I haven't been.)

Edinburgh or Glasgow... golly, that may not be a fair choice right now... But I'll be able to report on one of them, plus a fair amount of the rest of Scotland, in a few weeks, so maybe get back to me on this one.
Yeah, Iran is pretty cool actually, as long as you can cope with mullahs. Random demonstrations against the evils of the West were particularly amusing. Excellent cultural stuff, and friendliest people I've met just about anywhere.

Also, I'm going to Brazil on 11th December for a month. This is extremely good, and will also allow our son to meet the Brazilian half of his family again.

Edinburgh is clearly teh nutz, not least because I live there. Glasgow, not so much imo.

Anyway, we should meet up for drinks or something, if you have time when you are in Scotland..
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:44 PM   #749
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Re: The well: atakdog

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hey Elliot I'm behind on my credit card payments
elliot, i've fallen for soah. one plane ticket to argentina plz
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:49 PM   #750
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Re: The well: atakdog

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elliot, i've fallen for soah. one plane ticket to argentina plz
Soah is already with dustin. I will have no part of breaking up that happy couple!
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