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Old 11-18-2009, 06:29 AM   #701
DiggertheDog
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Re: The well: atakdog

I like villaging with Andy too.
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:37 AM   #702
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Re: The well: atakdog

if we play together in the future and you are a wolf its gonna break my heart

At least dont declare me in your coalition of chimp villas if it happens, I dont think I could take the truth afterwards

diggity
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:01 AM   #703
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Re: The well: atakdog

Atak,

Could you talk about the use of lithium in treating manic depressives? You mentioned that it altered your iq test results which I find interesting.

Is the manic phase fun?
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:04 AM   #704
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Re: The well: atakdog

what do you think there is after death?

sorry if this has been covered, I assume you think nothingness ensues and conscience ceases, just in case.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:08 AM   #705
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Re: The well: atakdog

no life after death correlates quite nicely with atheism
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:23 AM   #706
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludovic Banhammer View Post
Would you prefer to go to:
Iran or North Korea

Excellent Book Recommendation
on iran, imo,
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:29 AM   #707
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Re: The well: atakdog

Inebriated In Iran

From one of my favorite publications, Modern Drunkard

"Where liquor stores are outlawed, everywhere is a potential liquor store"
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:36 AM   #708
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
no life after death correlates quite nicely with atheism
yeah obv. no life after death

I thought he had said agnostic, but he was refering to others I need to reread early wagons imo
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:21 AM   #709
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by atakdog View Post

I will check with him soon and find out exactly what's required

Atak, please, for all of us, do this TODAY. Send an email. Make a call. Just do something about it...now!

Also, to the mysterious POG'er who made his trip happen, thanks, it is a truly wonderful thing you did, and I hope it comes back around full circle for you.

Sometimes people do wonderful things, it makes me smile.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:07 AM   #710
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
at first i was going to say that i agree with this, but I don't really at all

at lot of new players are obvious villagers but thats just because they haven't played a lot and don't have very good wolf games, plus there is a lot of 'newbie' type villager thinking that can be very obvious to see and read

once you get more experience those tells go away
Unless, apparently, you're me.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:09 AM   #711
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
That may very well be the case. But I don't think that makes what I said any less truthful.

All I was saying is that its easy for newbies to look villagery. Some of them at least.
A ton of newbies come off as super-wolfy. Upon reflection, I don't think it's as simple as you're implying.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:23 AM   #712
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Re: The well: atakdog

it is rare the noob that can't be cleared quite a bit early on. Even some of the wolfy stuff they do manages to be villagery upon reflection.

rule of thumb I use (lol I shouldnt give this away): if a newb is not on the extremes, be it of villageryness or wolfyness after a couple days, its a bad sign.

Some classic lines are:

how many wolves total?
Id never do that as a wolf because its too obvious so I have to be villa ducy? (head asplode)
I knew you would think that I am a wolf for posting that (lol wolfy villagery)
no u are the wolf! (has variations)
I have been busy but I am villa! (this is lol wolfy villagery)
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:24 AM   #713
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Re: The well: atakdog

i agree. the point that i was mostly trying to make was that being an obvious villager isn't necessarily an indication that you are doing anything right
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:02 AM   #714
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoraciousReader View Post
A ton of newbies come off as super-wolfy. Upon reflection, I don't think it's as simple as you're implying.
If you don't apply conventional standards (by which I mean, don't judge tone as you would for an experienced player) it's usually pretty easy to tell imo. But new players certainly do say things that would get you or me lynched, even when they're wolves.

I think a reasonable standard to use is that if you're not sure a new player is a wolf, he isn't. Also, leaving a brand new wolf alive for another day or two isn't a bad thing by any means.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
i agree. the point that i was mostly trying to make was that being an obvious villager isn't necessarily an indication that you are doing anything right
Well, from an experienced player it is, though that wasn't what sparked this discussion.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:06 AM   #715
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Heart Re: The well: atakdog

atak

awesome well.

Good luck to you sirrah!! Enjoy that trip to Scotland due to the very kind thing done by a fellow POGger. That made my week!!!!
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:10 AM   #716
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post
Atak,

In one of the championship games - I think the restricted post game, but I'm not 100% - you made a post where you said something along the lines of, "I'm the seer. Pay close attention to my grammar/spelling to find my peeks."

Were you trying to provide seer cover, or why did you do that?
Seer cover iirc, but that meant doing what I might have done as a seer. Lately people have missed my grammatical seer tells, so a reminder would have been in order regardless. Also, I knew I might not be sufficiently on with my reads that I could leave actual hints, so I needed to make sure the wolves "knew" they were there when they might not have been.

(Note that I occasionally do what Dustin is advocating, leaving no hints early as the actual seer.)

The question no one has asked yet is how to tell when I actually am the seer — but I wouldn't know how to answer it anyway. A few seer games ago I could tell you, but I think I've eliminated most or all of my seer tells.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:12 AM   #717
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by norseman1066 View Post
atak

awesome well.

Good luck to you sirrah!! Enjoy that trip to Scotland due to the very kind thing done by a fellow POGger. That made my week!!!!
Mine too, obviously.

I suppose everyone will be expecting a TR. I think I'll let Time do it.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:41 AM   #718
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinEvryRacex View Post
Atak,
Just how much did you used to lie and why?
Amount of 1night stands had?
Worst thing youve done to a person?

I'll think of some positive questions to counter these ones

Youre a utilitarian, right?
I lied about everything — stupid stuff mostly. When I was playing poker, I'd make up careers for myself — a new one every day or week. Stuff along those lines. I wound up not even thinking about it.


One night stands have never been my thing. I'm lousy at picking up women for casual encounters. (I did try, for a while, but gave up about a decade ago because it never worked.) One thing that contributes to that a bit is that I pretty much can't have sex when I've been drinking at all, so bars and clubs don't work so well, but mostly it's that I just don't approach it right. (It probably also "helps" that I am almost always uncomfortable in that kind of place, primarily because loud noise agitates me, to a pretty great extent if it goes on for long.) There have been times, but they've either been really out-of-the-blue things, or occasionally related to my being on Match (though the latter is rare, because I'm not looking for it and neither are the people I tend to be finding or who tend to find me.)

Anyway, I don't know how many, really. Fifteen maybe? Twenty? Somewhere in there.

I'm much more inclined to have brief but not instantaneous relationships, usually without sex on the first date.


Worst things I've done... I don't really know. I feel like I've done awful things, but I suppose since I can't think of any that says something good. The thing that comes to mind most, though is related to the above: I let people fall for me,a and leave them as soon as they do. I don't go into relationships intending it, but I do know that I do it. Sometimes, they get damaged a fair amount, so it's not something I'm proud of at all. I know that I'm better about it now, though. I started focusing on it a few years ago. For example, I managed to leave someone once, just as she was clearly at the stage where she wanted to say "I love you" but wouldn't, because I knew that I didn't and never would — I know that sound s like no big deal, but I was giving up someone who really, really liked me, was smart and attractive, and not incidentally was better in bed than anyone I've ever met. I was proud of myself, because for me that was a big deal. I've taken similar steps with others whom I believed I'd damage if I stayed — and in one case that was hugely bad, because I believe I could have stayed with her (as in forever) but I didn't trust myself not to be an ass, so I left. Balancing these things remains an unsolved problem.


Re being a utilitarian: I don't know. You've read this well; am I? I haven't taken any formal philosophy, and labeling these things really doesn't interest me enough that I've ever looked into it. I know what i think is right, except in the areas in which I don't,a and that's the level on which I think of such things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
It would be some seriously sick and twisted definition of utilitarianism that could justify killing 85% of humanity.
I remembered last night why that conversation seemed off to me, earlier in the thread: I was viewing it as an extension of a discussion from PE, so I was forgetting that some parts of the discussion hadn't gotten repeated. So let me fix it a bit:

Re the pressing the button, I go back and forth. In a non-depressed mood, I wouldn't do it, because I would realize that it would make those who remained miserable. However, if I could magically make it so that 85% of humanity had never existed at all, I'm pretty sure I would do that, and I'd quite happily take steps to ensure that the world's population dropped to that level over a couple or a few generations, even if doing that infringed on the "liberty" to breed at will.

Last edited by atakdog; 11-18-2009 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 11-18-2009, 11:52 AM   #719
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Re: The well: atakdog

thank goodness you havent really tried on the one night stands department
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:03 PM   #720
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andynan View Post
thank goodness you havent really tried on the one night stands department
lol

This all hits so close to home; I suck at picking up chicks at a bar, but if I get to know them -- even just a little -- I usually have a shot. And my last girlfriend (before my current, of 6 years+) and I broke up 3 days after she said "I love you" and I said "thanks".
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:05 PM   #721
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Re: The well: atakdog

nice reply Wyman, I have to ask, were you looking to end it right there or was a momentarily lapse?
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:06 PM   #722
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Re: The well: atakdog

I think that line is supposed to be "I know"
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:06 PM   #723
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinEvryRacex View Post
Not that twisted, but I do think it's very wrong.

I assume atak's argument is that killing 85% of people raises the average happiness substantially, thus people on average are better off/happier.

Except total happiness should obviously be taken into account vs avg. happiness.
I'm not sure it's obvious, but I do think it's right. But the math isn't simple at all, because what's the baseline? Does merely being alive mean one is experiencing positive happiness? I think the Iraqi on the waterboard or the starving child with the vulture waiting for him to die might disagree. Some days, so do I. I know no way to answer this question, except by feel. I do, however, know that I'm comfortable preferring greater average happiness, even if doing so reduces the peaks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WinEvryRacex View Post
i'll tell you when i get it

only semi been able to do it in a turbo

very very hard for me to do in long games cause i cant really fake thinking about certain things cause i wouldnt know what i would have thought of as villager, i have some nonstandard reads.

i need to be randed wolf more often to practice it more
And here we have the reason that being villagery really is a part of being a good villager: it's hard to replicate as a wolf. Yes, some of us can to some degree (sometimes very well), but most epolpe really can't. When you're a villager, it is your duty to your team to do everything you can to help the team win, and that often involves clearing yourself. And if that makes it harder to wolf well, the problem isn't your village game, it's that you haven't learned to wolf well yet.

Wolfing well is hard, because you have to do (almost) everything you'd do as a villager, but somehow get villagers lynched anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andynan View Post
total happyness of the human race behaving in a sustainable manner tends to infinity as time tends to infinity

total happyness of human race as it is going forward:very probably finite, as we'll at some point provoke our own extinction

so atak's way in theory can be better both for avg and long term total happyness.
This is good. Not exactly accurate, as entropy will catch us in some number of billions of years regardless, but true for all intents and purposes. If there's a reasonable probability that humans are heading to extinction, and that probability can be measurably reduced, that's an excellent argument for changing how we're doing things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawntificator View Post
I'd be pretty unhappy if 85 percent of the people I know died.
This one reminded me of the problem I noted above — I was neglecting to distinguish adequately between magical disappearance, and death.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawntificator View Post
Hey atak, have you ever come across a roving band of birds that can read your mind and can sing a pretty coordinated song between themselves? Damn, it's hard to even ask the question without sounding crazy.
Um, no.

Coordinated songs definitely happen, though, and are way cool. there are some tropical species that do duets (among mated pairs) that I literally cannot tell are being made by more than one bird without seeing them both doing it. On the other hand, single birds can actually harminize with themselves: the anatomical structures that allow them to make sounds are completely different from ours, being essentially like a pair of woodwind or brass instruments of different lengths (two parallel but unequal tubes) rather than our stringed instruments that can make only a single sound.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WinEvryRacex View Post
atak what drugs have you tried?
Stated somewhere else in here, but briefly, pot and hash, and nitrous. I do wish I'd had the opportunity to try some hallucinogen, but I haven't, and it's probably no big deal because I don't enjoy not being in control, and control of my mind is the biggest element of this. Letting go and just enjoying (whatever) is very hard for me. (This has a major effect on my sex life and what I seek therein, by the way — if someone can actually make me relax and stop analyzing and controlling everything, she's very special.) I'd also like to try ecstasy, though only under sufficiently comfortable circumstances that I'd feel safe.
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:08 PM   #724
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by well named View Post
I think that line is supposed to be "I know"
I like this line better

I cant see the "thanks", maybe I'm just being results oriented

next time dont post results right away Wyman...
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Old 11-18-2009, 12:09 PM   #725
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Re: The well: atakdog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andynan View Post
thank goodness you havent really tried on the one night stands department
You're aware that I've been a single adult for decades, right?

Bipolars are also notoriously interested in sex, and I am not an exception, so the numbers I gave reflect a lot of restraint imo.
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